Shamu Kills Trainer

[Enmos]

whales are mammals and i am sure that they can easily accept a massive tank and being provided with food every day and not worrying about being speared or watching their other mates being brutally killed (that hurts them emotionally). Doesnt seem so far fetched to me.

What a 'choice' they have! It's either getting killed or live in captivity. Wow! They should be so thankful to us that they weren't killed. They should be thankful to live in captivity!
How would you react if such a scenario was presented to you?

 

[Enmos]

I bet if you said that to Tilikum's face he'd rip you into the pool, tear off your clothes and thrash you around awhile. And if he could he'd do it at night so no one would be sure it was him.

And I would cheer him on.
Oh, was that inappropriate?

 

[madanthonywayne]

I bet if you said that to Tilikum's face he'd rip you into the pool, tear off your clothes and thrash you around awhile. And if he could he'd do it at night so no one would be sure it was him.

And I would cheer him on.
Oh, was that inappropriate?

They really should just let this whale go. Perhaps somewhere near Japan..............

 

[cluelusshusbund]

People think that "crazy" only aflicts humans. Well, guess what: "crazy" happens to animals...

I dont see what it did as bein "crazy"... it was jus behavin like a killer whale mite.!!!

 

[madanthonywayne]

I dont see what it did as bein "crazy"... it was jus behavin like a killer whale mite.!!!

Yes, but this particular whate has now killed three humans, whereas I'd assume that most such animals haven't kill any.

 

[iceaura]

So in the interview with the professional trainers, the consensus was that the trainer killed attracted the whale by letting her ponytail hang into the pool - the whale was apparently curious about it, and come over to play with the new toy.

That was, according to the head trainer, a violation of the rules for dealing with that whale - apparently, because he is even bigger and faster than the other whales, and very curious about new things.

None of the three people killed by or near this whale were attacked, malevolently. The guy who earned his Darwin award by sneaking into the pool apparently died of hypothermia in the 55 degree water - he was bitten, but not seriously from the whale's point of view, but no one even knows if he was alive when bit. The trainer who fell in and was played with was tossed around between three whales, not attacked by this one.

There doesn't seem to have been any malevolence, and that was obvious in the mild and playful nature of the "attacks" - the problem is these animals are really big and strong and fast, and humans that get involved with their games are in danger, inevitably.

 

[cluelusshusbund]

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
I dont see what it did as bein "crazy"... it was jus behavin like a killer whale mite.!!!

Yes, but this particular whate has now killed three humans, whereas I'd assume that most such animals haven't kill any.

I dont see how that necesarly equates to "crazy".... many killer whales toy wit ther pray.... an kill on a daily basis.!!!

I suspect that if a seal coud take the place of a human trainer an give the killer whale fish... the killer whale woud also preform tricks for the seal... but the instinct of a killer whale bein what it is... i woudnt thank it necesarly "crazy" if the whale killed its "trainer" at som pont.!!!

 

[Bells]

but whales are mammals and i am sure that they can easily accept a massive tank and being provided with food every day and not worrying about being speared or watching their other mates being brutally killed (that hurts them emotionally). Doesnt seem so far fetched to me.

Can easily accept?

In human societies, we only lock up people when they have committed a crime. In human societies we lock up large animals and teach them tricks so that they entertain us.

This is what they are used to:

(Source)

And this is what you are saying they should accept because we feed them:

(Source)

See that small tank off to the side? That is the isolation tank that they kept him in after he attacked the trainer. Look at the size of the damn thing. Look at how small it is in comparison to the whale itself. And look at the size of the pool that the other whales are kept in with 4 whales in it. Look at where they came from and look at where we drag them to for our own entertainment.

And yet you seem to think that they should accept this because in the wild (refer to top pictures), they face risk of death or being speared, but in captivity, they get fed, so it's all alright?

 

[Enmos]

They really should just let this whale go. Perhaps somewhere near Japan..............

Yes, but this particular whate has now killed three humans, whereas I'd assume that most such animals haven't kill any.

I bet there are a whole lot of humans that have killed more than three animals. Hell, I'm pretty sure there are people that have killed more than three whales.
And these people claim to possess morality.

 

[John99]

Can easily accept?

In human societies we lock up large animals and teach them tricks so that they entertain us.

That isnt true.

I already mentioned that these whales are captive bred (meaning they dont come from the ocean). Captive breeding of fish and sea animals is very important for many reasons and most are very different in how they will breed. Even for small fish they are less afraid of humans and overall less stressed. You should read about it. For many reasons captive breeding of fish and animals is very important.

Those images are only a very small part of the tank. I am not a spokesperson for sea world or dont work in any aquarium or own any fish myself.

You've never been to an aquarium?

You have never owned a fish?

You would be surprised how many people dont know or even just forget that these animals exist so overall it creates an awareness of them.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1026977/The-fish-tank-thats-big-hold-FOUR-whale-sharks.html

http://seaworld.myfun.com.au/Park-Info/News/AMAZING-SEA-WORLD-ANIMALS.htm

 

[Doreen]

That isnt true.

I already mentioned that these whales are captive bred (meaning they dont come from the ocean). Captive breeding of fish and sea animals is very important for many reasons and most are very different in how they will breed. Even for small fish they are less afraid of humans and overall less stressed. You should read about it. For many reasons captive breeding of fish and animals is very important.

But this animal was a situation where a large, highly intelligent mammal was brought up in what amounts to a very limited boring environment and for our entertainment.

You've never been to an aquarium?

You have never owned a fish?

Since you are responding to Bells, this is meaningless. These were mammals with very large brains.

 

[Doreen]

I dont see what it did as bein "crazy"... it was jus behavin like a killer whale mite.!!!

More than that, it was a confusing situation for this whale. Humans are members of it pod. So animals it is trained to be social with happen to be these extremely weak, fragile mammals that can't hold their breath for long. I've seen this with bears also where they hurt or kill someone they love dearly but got carried way in play or irritation.

Like some little kid hugging new born kitten too hard.

 

[Bells]

That isnt true.

Are you sure about that?

I already mentioned that these whales are captive bred (meaning they dont come from the ocean).

Really..

So you are not aware that the live capture of marine mammals continues to this day? It would seem not.

Whale and dolphin captures still occur routinely around the globe, particularly in Asia, the Caribbean, Russia and the South Pacific. Most of these captures are inhumane and result in numerous deaths.

http://www.hsus.org/hsi/press_room/press_releases/report_exposes_suffering_at_whale_and_dolphin_attractions_052109.html

Here is another article.

And another, this one about dolphins.

Shall we have a look at how this particular whale was kept for the "captive breeding program"?

He says the 22-foot-long killer whale spends a lot of time alone often in a 15 foot deep pool because he's used for breeding, which is not natural for such a social animal, marine experts say.

"It's a part of their lives to have whales visible to them at all times," said Richard Ellis, a marine conservationist at the American Museum of Natural History. "Put one in a tank and that whale is unhappy."

The lead trainer here says the animal will not be kept away from other killer whales. Tilikum is a valuable asset, he's fathered 15 calves and SeaWorld will continue to breed him.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/25/eveningnews/main6243992.shtml
​

Those images are only a very small part of the tank. I am not a spokesperson for sea world or dont work in any aquarium or own any fish myself.

Look at the first images and then tell me that the pools they are kept in are as big. Yes? No?

My guess would be a no. You can see a part of the supposedly larger tank in the top of the image. Look at the size of the animal and tell me that jamming several of them, even in the larger tank at the top, is acceptable. Look at the frigging images of them in the wild and tell me that the apparently larger tanks are acceptable. Look at the size of the isolation tank. It is too small for it to do a 360 turn!

You would be surprised how many people dont know or even just forget that these animals exist so overall it creates an awareness of them.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...le-sharks.html

From the article you linked with the image of the whale shark held captive in Japan. Do you know how long whale sharks last in captivity? Apparently Japan has had the best success rate.

Japan has had the most success — an aquarium in Okinawa has kept the animals alive for more than a decade.

http://www.wildsingapore.com/news/20070102/070112-4.htm#ajc7

And how long do whale sharks live in the wild?

The whale shark, Rhincodon typus, is a slow moving filter feeding shark, the largest living fish species. The largest confirmed individual had a length of 12.65 metres (41.50 ft) and a weight of more than 21.5 tonnes (47,000 lb), but unconfirmed claims report considerably larger whale sharks. This distinctively-marked fish is the only member of its genus Rhincodon and its family, Rhincodontidae (called Rhinodontes before 1984), which belongs to the subclass Elasmobranchii in the class Chondrichthyes. The shark is found in tropical and warm oceans, lives in the open sea with a lifespan of about 70 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whale_shark

 

[Bells]

Yes, but this particular whate has now killed three humans, whereas I'd assume that most such animals haven't kill any.

Maybe, just maybe, you should stop demanding that wild animals held captive behave like humans or have human morals and values.

Just maybe..

 

[Enmos]

You have never owned a fish?

You would be surprised how many people dont know or even just forget that these animals exist so overall it creates an awareness of them.

1. Killer Whales are not fish.
2. Are you sure fish are animals?

trust me, i'm a professional.

Oh brother.. lol!

 

[John99]

1. Killer Whales are not fish.
2. Are you sure fish are animals?


Oh brother.. lol!

no kidding. i mentioned that in an earlier post. we are still discussing marine life.

 

[Enmos]

no kidding. i mentioned that in an earlier post. we are still discussing marine life.

No, we are discussing Killer Whales and in particular the one that killed Dawn.

 

[John99]

Bells, you are just focusing on the negative and looking to vent. Take some time and study marine biology. The whale sharks you mention are only a few that are held in captivity. The real goal is to breed them and understand their requirements for survival. Captive bred fish (marine life) can be released into the wild. We know that animals go extinct and sometimes we dont even have an answer as to why.

Even still it is very dangerous for sea creatures in the ocean. Many end up being eaten by other fish etc.

 

[John99]

No, we are discussing Killer Whales and in particular the one that killed Dawn.

The captive bred (meaning the whale would not be alive if it was not bred in captivity and never lived in the wild) falls under the umbrella term 'marine life'.

 

[John99]

Enmos, you have to realize that captive bred fish and whales are a little different form wild caught because they are very used to being around humans.