I think cetaceans and the great apes should be extended human rights.
Shamu Kills Trainer
- Thread starter sandy
- Start date
Agreed,
The problem is, I think Shamu was born in captivity in Canada.
Not sure how well it would survive if turned loose.
Any other animal wouldn't have a chance...but Orcas might be the greatest life form this planet has ever made. Pretty sure Shamu would be just fine.
Since they are (as a species) unable to understand the concept of rights, they can not enter into a social contract. Even if we foolishly attempted to include them in our social contract, they lack the understanding to abide by it.
their not humans though. a greater set of rights than other animals yes they should get that.
Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
Don't hold our own species in high regard, eh? My dogs think we are the greatest.
Everyone who's weighed in on this, from the trainers to biologists to psychologists, are pretty sure that she would not fare well if she were set loose in the wild. There are a variety of problems that we can't evaluate:
- As a domestic animal she's used to being fed. She has not developed any hunting skills and might not be any good at it.
- Orcas, like most of the smaller dolphins, are a pack-social species that travel in pods. Her pod is her tank-mates at the park, and also her people, since she has been socialized since birth to regard them as her pod-mates. Many pack-social animals respond with great hostility to an intruder. If she tried to cozy up to a wild pod they might kick the crap out of her and then eat her. Or if they simply ostracize her, she won't do very well on her own with no wild instincts, and as a social creature she would be very depressed by the solitude.
- Many wild animals that have been rescued as babies end up being attached to humans. A baby owl who was turned loose as an adult just started hanging around people, dive-bombing them and banging them on the head to try to get them to feed him. Adult bald eagles who have been nursed through an injury become experts on human behavior. When they're set free they fly low over the boardwalk and intimidate people into giving up their cheeseburgers. I just don't know how most people would feel about a hungry orca swimming desperately along the beach--with their children.
Neither do children. They should be declared honorary humans.
(First, my apologies to Enmos - I read the thread from the end back, and at first I thought CellarDoor's comments were yours. Then, I'm like - what? That's not Enmos! I reread it, got my act together, and stopped shivering...)
@CellarDoor:
Now, back to topic, I think you should perhaps reconsider your definition of "torture". Most civilized nations consider a psychological aspect to the term. Meaning, humans, a killer whale, "Flipper", or any other intelligent being confined in a small space with limited / no contact with others of their kind is considered torture, or at least "cruel and unusual punishment". Would you not agree?
Even if you completely reject the benefits of their human company, the whales are still allowed to interact with eachother. Moreover, humans provide whales in captivity with many things they are constantly searching for in the wild. I acknowledge the pyschological aspects of the term 'torture' and I still find the condition of the whales falls short of its definition.
You ask me to imagine myself in the mind of a whale then tell me to cut the 'bleeding heart, liberal crap'
Unless you hunt ants for food, your definition of 'sentient' is highly questionable. The quoted material above is, as such, irrelevant.