Shamu Kills Trainer

[Bells]

So, what then? If they can't successfully be reintroduced into the wild, what? No one wants him dead but he really can't be trusted anymore.

No wild animal in captivity can be trusted.

I don't want him dead. But releasing him into the wild would be a death sentence. This animal, and the numerous others, no longer know how to hunt or survive in the wild. Their have lost their group connections that they would otherwise have had if they had been in the wild.

It is a tragedy that this woman died. But the tragedy continues as organisations like Sea World continue to obtain and breed whales and other animals for the purpose of human entertainment, under the guise of research. They accuse and point the finger at countries like Japan for hunting whales for "research (if eating it can be considered research)", but they are keeping whales in captivity and training them to do tricks like it's some kind of friendly pet.

I don't want to see that animal die. Nor do I want to see the others held in captivity die. What needs to happen now is to take them out of those tanks and place them in large holding areas in the sea, like they did with poor Willy, and let them live out the rest of their days outside of those god awful pools and away from crowds with popcorn and cola. Stop using them for entertainment and stop the practice.

 

[Enmos]

We need not celebrate the death of the trainer, but recognize, much as you have stated, that this is going to happen. Just as we need not celebrate the corpse in the back alley with two in the cranium, but we might wonder what someone thought would happen when running such gambling debts to the mob.

I was just cheering for her because of the Darwin award she won. A job well done.
If you mess with wild animals these things can happen. If you are too uncaring or too ignorant, well, then you deserve it.
If you go poking at a wasps nest, knowing full-well that you are going to be stung (or at least you should know that), you deserve to get stung.

 

[Enmos]

Killer whales in captivity often develop pathologies, such as the dorsal fin collapse seen in 60–90% of captive males. Captive killer whales have vastly reduced life expectancies, on average only living into their 20s, though there are examples of killer whales living longer, including several over 30 years old, and two captive orcas (Corky II and Lolita) are in their mid-40s. In the wild, female killer whales can live to be 70–80 years old (though this is a rare occurrence, and 50 years is the average lifespan expected for those who survive infancy), while males can live to be 50–60 years old (while 30 years is the average). The captive environment usually bears little resemblance to their wild habitat, and the social groups that the killer whales are put into are foreign to those found in the wild.[ Critics claim that captive life is stressful due to small tanks, false social groupings and chemically altered water. Captive killer whales occasionally act aggressively towards themselves, their tankmates, or humans, which critics say is a result of stress. Unlike wild killer whales, captives have attacked and even killed people such as their handlers or pool intruders, with nearly two dozen attacks since the 1970s. Tilikum, an orca, has allegedly been involved in three fatalities.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_whale#Whaling

 

[BlueRidge]

I still wonder why people NEED to see Orca in a cage? The animal is way too big for captivity. I've played with Belugas in Canada, but their enclosure was massive. They were truly happy animals. I teach my kids, and others. If you were a wild animal, how happy would you be in a cage? And how great would you feel after years of dumb people yelling and gesturing at you in ways you don't understand, throwing things at you, making you do things you don't like etc etc. No kid I know so far thinks it's any kind of a brilliant idea. And it's no surprise when a wild animal goes nuts on a handler. Wild animals can NOT be trusted, and it's hardly their fault. If you don't want to be ripped to pieces by a grizzly, don't play with them.

I find no fault in the whale (in this case). Release the damn thing and lets stop pretending we know so much about wildlife. We don't.

 

[sandy]

Yeah, Bells has what's probably the best idea about getting them out of there and into holding areas in the ocean. I don't see any other solution.

 

[Enmos]

I still wonder why people NEED to see Orca in a cage?

You sort of answered your question below:

The animal is way too big for captivity. I've played with Belugas in Canada, but their enclosure was massive. They were truly happy animals. I teach my kids, and others. If you were a wild animal, how happy would you be in a cage? And how great would you feel after years of dumb people yelling and gesturing at you in ways you don't understand, throwing things at you, making you do things you don't like etc etc. No kid I know so far thinks it's any kind of a brilliant idea. And it's no surprise when a wild animal goes nuts on a handler.

Wild animals can NOT be trusted, and it's hardly their fault. If you don't want to be ripped to pieces by a grizzly, don't play with them.

I object. Wild animals CAN be trusted.. to do what comes natural to them.
It's humans that can't be trusted.

I find no fault in the whale (in this case).

In which case was it the whales fault?

Release the damn thing and lets stop pretending we know so much about wildlife. We don't.

The sad thing is, we do know a lot about wildlife. Which only makes it even more incomprehensible that these kind of accidents still happen. Then again, DUMB people.

 

[Enmos]

Yeah, Bells has what's probably the best idea about getting them out of there and into holding areas in the ocean. I don't see any other solution.

How about doing something about people keeping them in captivity. Make it illegal!

 

[stateofmind]

Thinking about it, if I grew up in a cage my entire life and couldn't roam where I wanted to I'd probably get really pissed off.

 

[wsionynw]

Simple really, boycott Seaworld.

 

[stateofmind]

Simple really, boycott Seaworld.

Good idea! I've started a group that organizes boycotts and this is a perfect one to add to our list of goals! There aren't many members now because it just started but just like a seed, with the light of truth and the rain of good ideas like this it will grow into the tallest redwood.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=336867537088

 

[Cellar_Door]

And she was an accomplish to torturing an animal, ignorant or not.

*accomplice

Although I share some of your sentiments regarding animals in captivity, let's not exaggerate: it's not as though the trainers wilfully inflict pain on the whales with whips and stun-guns. In fact, the only definition of torture that would apply to their captivity would - I imagine - be some kind of sensory deprivation. Even then, the whales still have a ready supply of food, things to occupy their time and many other whales to interract with.

Moreover, why is it so unbelievable that this whale just had a violent temperament? This kind of attack is not common, and the whale in this case was unprovoked. Some people are just wired wrongly, why not a whale?

 

[John99]

Thinking about it, if I grew up in a cage my entire life and couldn't roam where I wanted to I'd probably get really pissed off.

like a fish, bird, hamster, dog, cat, salamander etc. It still is much better than whaling and mass killing of whales.

i mean, lets not get carried away. how many big dog attack their owners? the bigger the animal the more damage. this still doesnt mean they are in immediate danger.

the thing about fish, i know whales are not tecjnically fish, is they need a lot of room and also the parameters must be met for theri requirements.

tbh, fish\whales are very different to keep in captivity. i dont own fish mainly because the way salt water fish are captured. therefore, i always asked if the fish is captive bred.

but then same thing, you need a large tank for salt water fish and in some ways it does raise awareness of their actual existence as creatures of the earth AND have special requirements, especially unpolluted water.

lets not forget, this is a killer whale, not its fault though. same for a grizzly bear. you would be surprised how happy a grizzly would be if it was given plenty of room and fed every day. still if it hit a fence say like in a huge pen (not in a backyard, i mean acres - like a natural habitat), it wouldnt really mind.

i cant see it thinking 'this really is terrible, i cant get to the other side of the fence'.

no, it would just turn around and wait for food. it needs some other grizzlies for company too. the fact is, of course, these things need to be well planned and thought out.

 

[CutsieMarie89]

Simple really, boycott Seaworld.

Not that's hard. SeaWorld is the single most boring amusement park (if you'd consider it that) in California. Not to mention the small fortune you have to pay for admission (I believe it is in the $70 range). I haven't been to the other SeaWorld, but I assume it's the same. If you've seen one show you've seen them all. Riding a conveyor belt through a shark tank gets old real fast too. For a child (and some adults too) it really is amazing to an animal that large and relatively friendly so close. It's a great experience, however just riding on the open ocean can provide you with that. Dolphins love to play with people and race boats, but orcas not so much unfortunately. Personally I think seeing them by chance in the wild is cooler than watching them jump through hoops, but that might just be me. I got to see a blue whale once too and they don't have those at SeaWorld.

 

[stateofmind]

Still john99, do you think any animal in captivity lives a life it would consider fulfilling? Most of us recognize as humans that there are some lives that do no accord with our inner most being. Most humans need some sense of adventure to be truly happy. I doubt many people working in meat processing plants would considered themselves fulfilled human beings.

 

[John99]

Still john99, do you think any animal in captivity lives a life it would consider fulfilling? Most of us recognize as humans that there are some lives that do no accord with our inner most being. Most humans need some sense of adventure to be truly happy. I doubt many people working in meat processing plants would considered themselves fulfilled human beings.

The certainly can. I had salt water fish that were very happy. I could tell because they loved to see me and trusted me. I had a shrimp that would ride on my finger as i moved it in the tank whereas normally all these creatures are very aware of dnger. its hard coded into them and they learn it from living in the ocean where they are in danger, most of them, constantly.

I dont recommend salt water fish keeping unless you have plenty of money and etrememly dedicated but like i said they were very content. Providing the parameters are met and they have huge amounts of space, like i said earlier i dont agree with cyaniding them (which is supposedly illegal) to capture them but if you can tank raise them that is better, which is VERY hard for salt water fish, but it is done, then i can agree with it ONLY if the requirements i mentioned can be met. I am talking about 50 gallons for a small fish minimum.

All these animals are different in their classifications so i dont know about fish that need to travel like salmon or something like that held in captivity but whales are mammals and i am sure that they can easily accept a massive tank and being provided with food every day and not worrying about being speared or watching their other mates being brutally killed (that hurts them emotionally). Doesnt seem so far fetched to me.

 

[glaucon]

I say cheers to Shamu.
Not that I'm happy that someone has died, but you'd think it would be obvious to these 'conservationists' that imprisoning these animals for our entertainment is a violation.

 

[John99]

I say cheers to Shamu.
Not that I'm happy that someone has died, but you'd think it would be obvious to these 'conservationists' that imprisoning these animals for our entertainment is a violation.

Do you own a dog or a cat?

Aquariums are professionals and support conservation, which is part of how they operate. i think it is better than most animals held in captivity by just anyone because the incidence of maltreatment is much greater.

 

[stateofmind]

The certainly can. I had salt water fish that were very happy. I could tell because they loved to see me and trusted me. I had a shrimp that would ride on my finger as i moved it in the tank whereas normally all these creatures are very aware of dnger. its hard coded into them and they learn it from living in the ocean where they are in danger, most of them, constantly.

It's a stretch to compare shrimp and small aquarium fish to mammals like orcas and grizzlies. Shrimp and aquarium fish literally only live to eat and reproduce - to put them in a habitat that provides these for them is hardly captivity. Mammals like orcas and grizzlies are more complex and have more desires other than food and reproduction as evidenced by how they rear their young and have families.

whales are mammals and i am sure that they can easily accept a massive tank and being provided with food every day and not worrying about being speared or watching their other mates being brutally killed (that hurts them emotionally). Doesnt seem so far fetched to me.

Did you ask Tilikum that?

 

[glaucon]

Aquariums are professionals and support conservation, which is part of how they operate.

Yes, I mentioned that.

...
i think it is better than most animals held in captivity by just anyone because the incidence of maltreatment is much greater.

It's still a 'lesser' evil.
The correct response is: no animals should be kept in captivity.
You are aware of the meaning of the word "captivity" yes?

 

[John99]

It's a stretch to compare shrimp and small aquarium fish to mammals like orcas and grizzlies. Shrimp and aquarium fish literally only live to eat and reproduce - to put them in a habitat that provides these for them is hardly captivity. Mammals like orcas and grizzlies are more complex and have more desires other than food and reproduction as evidenced by how they rear their young and have families.

I think we went over that in my other post. You are right about one thing, these animals live to eat.

I found this link:

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/whales/22753

Incredibly this whale WAS tank raised (born in captivity). So getting back to your post, all these animals can be complex and i was amazed at how smart something so small as a shrimp can be, but even the other tiny fish. I can only imagine that their brains must be the size of a match tip yet they have an awareness about them that is amazing.

I did say that the size of the are needs to be relative to the animal size and habits.

Did you ask Tilikum that?

You cant ask them, this is why research is done because they dont talk.