Scientific Approach to the Jesus question

[pavlosmarcos]

There is no contradiction in the Bible, not one.
Only atheist's false interpretations which they then call contradiction.

this is not false interpretation, it's clear as day.

the bible is the word of god.
does god talk dirty,

Is god's every word pure?

Yes

KJV
psalms 12,6 "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times."

psalms 119,140 "Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it. "

proverbs 30,5 "Every word of god is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. "


oops contradiction.


Is god's every word pure?

NO

KJV
2 kings 18,27 "But Rab-shakeh said unto them, Hath my master sent me to thy master, and to thee, to speak these words? hath he not sent me to the men which sit on the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you."

ezekiel 23,20 "For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses. . "

habakkuk 2,16 "Thou art filled with shame for glory: drink thou also, and let thy foreskin be uncovered: the cup of the LORD's right hand shall be turned unto thee, and shameful spewing shall be on thy glory"

malachi 2,3 "Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces, even the dung of your solemn feasts; and one shall take you away with it."

 

[ggazoo]

We live in a time of denial: the Holocaust never happened, the lunar landings were faked, Islam is a religion of peace... people believe what they want in spite of mountains of evidence to the contrary.

 

[Woody]

SW said:

Ahh... so here we've come full circle. The argument degenerates to: "it's magic."

Actually it's magic that can work. If you're in a hospital bed and need a miracle maybe you can understand it better. Maybe you can understand why many medical doctors are believers.

Would you appreciate a prayer petition if your situation was hopeless? Probably not.

 

[spiritual_spy]

We live in a time of denial: the Holocaust never happened, the lunar landings were faked, Islam is a religion of peace... people believe what they want in spite of mountains of evidence to the contrary.

So do you have mountains that point to god? If you do please show me.

 

[Cris]

TheVisitor,

There is no contradiction in the Bible, not one.

You cannot possibly be serious.

 

[spiritual_spy]

TheVisitor,

You cannot possibly be serious.

Leave him be..he is to far gone to listen to reason. (He thinks that catholic church sponsored the civil war :bugeye: )

 

[TheVisitor]

Actually it's magic that can work. If you're in a hospital bed and need a miracle maybe you can understand it better. Maybe you can understand why many medical doctors are believers.

Hi Woody, six months ago I was there..
Laying in a hospital bed with my skull crushed in five places, I was still dying after a craniectomy to cauterize two severed blood vessels leaking blood into my cranium creating pressure and remove the massive clot that created.
The sub-dural hematoma was removed in an emergency surgery, but my brain continued to swell from the trauma and I could not breathe on my own without life support.
The doctors called my family up to say goodbye on day three and after my little children had all squeezed my hand, tears running down their cheeks, my pastor came and prayed for me as I lie dying in a coma.
The doctors said from that moment, I took a "turn for the better" came out of my coma and regained consciousness.
The doctors themselves called it a miracle.
I am grateful for the talented surgeon that patched me up, with a new titanium mesh skull under the skin by the way....
Some might say God had nothing to do with it, but God can guide a doctors hand, and after all that could be done had been, I was still dying.
Thats when the impossible is made possible and God is called on the scene.
He specializes in what no one else can do.
I experianced a full recovery, with no residual headaches, dizziness, of loss of motor control, and have went back to work full-time.
Praise be to God.

 

[Regulus]

How do you know it was God itself though.

As said, "we are made in the likeness of God"

Why can't people merely be a miracle in itself? If we are made in the likeness of God, then God has no reason to interfere.

Also my question is, why so divided?

Why must it be THIS WAY, or THAT WAY. Either Jesus is the son of God or not? What if he is the eventuality of what the definition of narvana is?

The one thing I hate is when people go from one extreme to another, BLACK AND WHITE, no gray involved. There can never be a compromise, due to Biblical controversy's and scientific skeptisicm.

The Visitor, I ask you, if we are living, why must God interfer? Whats the purpose if we should turn to it only?

 

[Woody]

Hi Woody, six months ago I was there..
Laying in a hospital bed with my skull crushed in five places, I was still dying after a craniectomy to cauterize two severed blood vessels leaking blood into my cranium creating pressure and remove the massive clot that created.
The sub-dural hematoma was removed in an emergency surgery, but my brain continued to swell from the trauma and I could not breathe on my own without life support.
The doctors called my family up to say goodbye on day three and after my little children had all squeezed my hand, tears running down their cheeks, my pastor came and prayed for me as I lie dying in a coma.
The doctors said from that moment, I took a "turn for the better" came out of my coma and regained consciousness.
The doctors themselves called it a miracle.
I am grateful for the talented surgeon that patched me up, with a new titanium mesh skull under the skin by the way....
Some might say God had nothing to do with it, but God can guide a doctors hand, and after all that could be done had been, I was still dying.
Thats when the impossible is made possible and God is called on the scene.
He specializes in what no one else can do.
I experianced a full recovery, with no residual headaches, dizziness, of loss of motor control, and have went back to work full-time.
Praise be to God.

Visitor, that's a fantastic testimony. It's hard to deny a miracle when you're on the receiving end of it.

I also have a miracle in my life that I already shared. The atheists gave it the poo-poo job, but they weren't the one with their life hanging in the balance. It's all a matter of perspective.

 

[KennyJC]

but they weren't the one with their life hanging in the balance. It's all a matter of perspective.

So if someone faces death and survives, it's a miracle? Is that it? Is that all that quantifies a miracle?

Miracle is supposed to mean that the impossible happens, not recovery from serious illness or injury.

 

[Cris]

TheVisitor,

my pastor came and prayed for me as I lie dying in a coma.

The doctors said from that moment, I took a "turn for the better" came out of my coma and regained consciousness. The doctors themselves called it a miracle.

I really wonder if they had said anything or whether you added that to emphasize the anecdote. Usually in such “testimonies” we find exaggeration, emotionalism, misdirection, additions and deletions, rarely do we find an accurate report of events. The reference to little children crying has no other purpose here except to add the heavy emotional element. It sounds like your injuries were not as severe as you state and that any comments made by the doctors about miracles is what you wanted to hear or they said it because they could see you were religious.

What you fail to show is cause and effect. People do recover from such events. I’d suggest that if we examine statistical records of those who do recover and those who don’t and where prayer was involved or not we would see a statistical wash. What of the cases where prayer was used and the patient died? Instead of praising God should we then blame him for not intervening? The theist of course rationalizes everything (makes something inherently irrational appear rational) by saying it is God’s will either way. But in the end we see it as a regular mathematical normal random distribution, i.e. a god factor isn’t required.

Thats when the impossible is made possible and God is called on the scene.

You haven’t shown it was impossible.

He specializes in what no one else can do.

And why does he then fail to act in so many cases? Why do you have the arrogance to believe you are somehow special?

I am certain that many who died at 9/11 prayed very hard when they were trapped in that burning inferno - why weren't their prayers answered?

 

[KennyJC]

I am certain that many who died at 9/11 prayed very hard when they were trapped in that burning inferno - why weren't their prayers answered?

He must have chose to obey the prayers of the hijackers - They no doubt prayed harder with the added bonus of hard prayer in the months leading up to the attacks. The infidels had only minutes to pray.

 

[Cris]

Of course one could argue that real life only begins in the eternal afterlife and that God really doesn't care about who lives and dies on this very temporary earthly plain. Perhaps if you have been considered ready for heaven then he will more likely let those die and those who need more testing must remain behind. Perhaps TheVisitor was saved so he can suffer a mortal life on earth for longer.

 

[Regulus]

Or perhaps it was just his purpose.

Like I said before if God wanted us to learn God wouldn't be interfering in anything that could alter the learning process.

Perhaps you pick your life, and your purpose, and what is meant to be done, and your life is already determined to end at a point.

It sounds more plausible then just saying that God saved me from going to this wonderful place called heaven, I am not in the grace of God by being stuck down here.

There's no hard evidence that it was GOD who saved you The Visitor, or it just wasn't your time.

 

[Wilmet]

Ahh... so here we've come full circle. The argument degenerates to: "it's magic."

The same bullshit that believers of magic (be it religious, tarot, divining, sorcery, channeling, aliens, esp, telekinesis, santa claus, etc) always resort to when they fail to logically demonstrate their claims.

Not necessarily magic... Certain storms can cause severe changes in the earth's magnetic field, cosmic rays and carbon-14...

 

[ggazoo]

I am certain that many who died at 9/11 prayed very hard when they were trapped in that burning inferno - why weren't their prayers answered?

So you conclude that either God is not loving or not all-powerful or that God does not exist, because if He did exist, He could stop all the suffering that day.

Have you considered all the things God might have done to prevent an even *greater* loss of life than what occurred during the attack on the World Trade Center? Look at it like this:

Around 4,000 people lost their lives in the attack on the World Trade Center. While this sounds like a large number of people (and it is the largest loss of life due to single terrorist attack), it represents only a small percentage of the people who could have died in those towers. A total of 50,000 people worked in the World Trade Center towers at the time of the attack. In addition, it was reported that 100,000 people visited the towers every day. This means that at least 90% of everybody in the towers at the time of the attack escaped alive.

There are some other facts to consider. The first tower that was hit stood standing 45 minutes longer than the second tower, allowing more time for those who had no warning to escape. After the attack on the first tower, people in the second tower immediately began to leave, despite the announcement by management that everything was safe and under control. People interviewed later reported that they "felt" that they should leave. Did God communicate to tens of thousands of people to warn them to escape? Possibly. In watching the crash of the second airliner into the second tower, it seems remarkable that the tower did not collapse immediately.

Where was God in the attack on the World Trade Center? Well, maybe He was there all along.

 

[Oli]

So you conclude that either God is not loving or not all-powerful or that God does not exist, because if He did exist, He could stop all the suffering that day.

If he existed and was all-powerful and all-loving then he wouldn't allow ANY suffering. Simple as that.

 

[Regulus]

Actually it's a form of learning.

If God didn't allow suffering God would A. Be controlling us, and B. We would never learn.

Thus we're mere puppets in the hands of God. Becuz with complacency comes stupidity. With hardship comes learning.

 

[Oli]

But the point is, if god was all-powerful why weren't we created from the start with the knowledge that we would have/ will (whatever) gained from the suffering...?
Just skip to the end of the process since he's supposedly all-powerful and all-knowing.
None of it is being done for OUR benefit, it's all self-aggrandisement so that he can turn round at the end and and say "told you so" to the devil or whoever.

 

[Regulus]

Well... then think about this.

We are in the likeness of God Oli, i.e function like God as souls, what if we ALWAYS existed, and chose the time to incarnate, and basically chose when we wanted to learn. What if everything was our choice after all?

God doesn't have to be responsible for everything or make everything, it simply has to BE, for everything to fall into place like this. Thus God technically wouldn't be controlling it, it's simply existing for us to exist. There's no rule saying we had to be created.

and we were to skip it all, technically we wouldn't learn, because we never experienced it. We'd just skip to the part where we are done. Thus there is no true learning experience. We'd have to experience it to truely learn the experience.

And I don't generally believen a devil, or any of the biblical implifications. Just a being such as God on my own logic I have sufficed.