sandy: answer these claims against Christianity

What i don't get is that you claim not to be interested in responding to people, yet respond to them anyway..... Also,If that article is to be believe, Children are often the most feverent believers, and it is sad and horrible what extremism can do to children. However, that article does not mean that all muslims would try and strap bombs to their children.
 
sandy said:
I'd be mortified if a true, born-again Christian killed 3,000 innocent people. I'd be apologizing all over the place. Not denying he did it.
Click to expand...

But Sandy, the body count in Iraq is now in aproximately 70.000 Iraqi deaths. Do you think you have killed 70.000 Islamic terrorists? I don´t think so.
I´m also pretty sure there are plenty of Christians fighting against Iraqi innocent people.

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/
 
I lose track of who's nice and who's not. I can't put everyone on ignore or I would just be responding to a few people. :rolleyes:

That story wasn't about fervent child believers. It was about some moron trying to recruit a child. :mad:

Christians have nothing against innocent Iraqi people. They're the ones we're trying to help.
 
Higher Irony

"Religious Rock Right" - Grand Buffet

Wait lets tell the truth,
We're not Holier-than-thou
But Holy cow!
There's people doin' stuff that God would never allow.
Like guys kissing guys,
And poor people too!
There's plenty of jobs - find somethin to do!

We think abortion is pretty messed up,
If you don't want a kid, then don't be a slut.
There's plenty of races, on God's green planet -
That doesn't mean you have to breed with them, Goddammit!

---------

Pretty fitting, I think!
 
Nickelodeon said:
Its so funny watching fundamentalist Christians bash fundamentalist Muslims, its incredible just how similar they are. In fact they have more in common with each other that the rest of us.
Click to expand...

I thought Qa`Dark was just using that arguement to prove a point to Sandy? Otherwise they're both just being hypocrits.:shrug:
 
I think you lot are missing out on the larger issue here: separation of religion and state. Whether or not it's an accident of history, this has occurred in the West, although there is a certain movement to reintroduce religion to the secular state system. I don't disapprove of it per se, so long as it's harmless. But the islamic system - islam meaning, let's be honest, "submission" - is not so divided. In fact, the "good old days" to which apologists and seeming moderates hearken back to are characterized at all levels by more islam (always touted as the 'solution'), more religious law and government, more sharia, more observance, more, more, more, more, more. Always, and without ever wondering "what does 'more' really translate into?" Does 'more' mean more tolerance for religious minorities, or apostates, or women, or homosexuals? Does 'more' mean more secular authority and equal treatment under the law? Or is more just...more? What does 'more', in all its 'highly variable' expressions, as Ghost likes to suppose - Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Egypt, Algeria, the Sudan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Malaysia - usually mean? And what then for the citizen of one of these countries embracing this 'moreness' who conscientiously, arrives at the conclusion that religion, or organized religion, or his religion, is bollocks? What then? Well, he must have more! But he will not. So what then? Well, there is example to be drawn from the present and the past: fines, imprisonment, physical torture...death. And as always before, the option to just give up and accept this mad 'more'.

There might be a humanitarian way to get this 'more' that is talked about, in spite of the general hubris and recollect that the 'grand old Golden Age of Islam' was not so grand for the filthy unbelievers, those kuffars, those un-muslims (Unsubmitters! one might cry in religious NewSpeak), I rather doubt it. By comparisons, are the Christians that are so fashionable to damn over and over - and, mind, not merely the fundamentalists, but the whole lot, much as we're told again and again by apologists that they aren't radicals either - clamouring for the good old era of pogrom and witch-dunking? Are they demanding the reinstitution of forced conversion, or even the deaths of apostates, that merest blot of religious honour? No. And if they were, I'd oppose that too.

Your right to self-expression ends at the tip of my nose (or even at more gynaecological body parts central to other debates). Will islam, which rejects the separation of mosque and state, withhold its fist? Where has it done so before, in the beloved gone-by?
 
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Wisdom_Seeker said:
But Sandy, the body count in Iraq is now in aproximately 70.000 Iraqi deaths. Do you think you have killed 70.000 Islamic terrorists? I don´t think so.
I´m also pretty sure there are plenty of Christians fighting against Iraqi innocent people.

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/
Click to expand...

All right: then let's be fair. Examine the list, if you will, the targets, the causes.

Police captain, charred body, executions, mortars, car bombs, battles with militiamen, suicide bomber, roadside bomb, drive by, suicide bomb, mortars again, gunfire, suicide bomb...oh, and a couple from US airstrikes. And Blackwater mercenaries. And someone, for some fucking reason, executed the "vice-president of Iraq's taekwondo union". (??? WTF? Why?)

No specification of who or what. Who was killed? Innocent farmers on their way to market? Terrorists? Jehovah's Witnesses? (Well, probably not them, in the climate.) I generally believe or believed there were more casualties from American action once, but now I'm not so sure.
 
GeoffP said:
All right: then let's be fair. Examine the list, if you will, the targets, the causes.

Police captain, charred body, executions, mortars, car bombs, battles with militiamen, suicide bomber, roadside bomb, drive by, suicide bomb, mortars again, gunfire, suicide bomb...oh, and a couple from US airstrikes. And Blackwater mercenaries. And someone, for some fucking reason, executed the "vice-president of Iraq's taekwondo union". (??? WTF? Why?)

No specification of who or what. Who was killed? Innocent farmers on their way to market? Terrorists? Jehovah's Witnesses? (Well, probably not them, in the climate.) I generally believe or believed there were more casualties from American action once, but now I'm not so sure.
Click to expand...

Even if Iraqis have a part in the body count, it seems to be because their country is being invaded, and they are targeting opposition soldiers, but they are a little messy doing so :bugeye:
 
Then their targetting system needs to be improved. Or - or - maybe this "tiny minority of extremists" could simply stand by, let the Coalition try and rebuild, and bow to the will of the people instead of fighting among the sects, blowing college students and beating women and barbers and music shop owners.

And, maybe, I could have my very own pony.
 
GeoffP said:
Then their targetting system needs to be improved. Or - or - maybe this "tiny minority of extremists" could simply stand by, let the Coalition try and rebuild, and bow to the will of the people instead of fighting among the sects, blowing college students and beating women and barbers and music shop owners.
Click to expand...

You can´t blame people for freaking out and enter in civil war, while the strongest armed country in the world is behind their asses blowing bombs at them...

GeoffP said:
And, maybe, I could have my very own pony.
Click to expand...

lol
 
sandy said:
Christians don't strap bombs on their children either:
*************
M*W: No they stap bombs on them, they just rape and molest them and destroy their lives. They just line them up and drown them one-by-one. (Andrea P. Yates)

They sexually molest their daughters and make their wives perform perverted sexual acts.
(Matthew Winkler)

They take a liking to street whores. (Jimmy Swaggart)

They impregnant young women and produce illigitimate children when they are married and in the public's eye. (Jesse Jackson)

They bilk the ignorant public of their money in exchange for prayers. Yeah, right. (Jim & Tammy Faye Bakker)

They have affairs with other men, go to massage parlors, and do illegal drugs. (Ted Haggard)

They have sex with young teens in their youth ministry program and get 135 years in prison. (Randy Lee Morrow)

They abused children for years and the church hid it. (Bernard Law)

They sexually abused young girls 12-15 years in their youth ministry and had 3-way sex with pastor's wife. (Marty Eugene Meadows)

They have sex with teenagers with their wives who are also implicated in the charges. (Kenneth Baxley)

Then there are the clergy who ministered to Bill Clinton, POTUS.

All devout christians! Yessiree!

In an article by William Levesque, he writes about how christian churches are showing increasing statistics where sexual abuse has taken place. Not all churches have reported such incidents, but they have occurred and been kept quiet. See below:

"The Southern Baptist Sexual Cover Up"

"Dan Earl Allmond, Youth Pastor of Tampa Baptist Church, Tampa, a Southern Baptist Church, and a married man, suddenly resigned on December 9, 1998 and disappeared off the scene when the police were called in concerning a complaint made by a female high school student that she was having sex with the pastor as a minor."

"Senior Pastor McCormick of Tampa Baptist Church denied all knowledge about the sexual activities and ordered the staff of Tampa Baptist Academy to stay silent on the whole matter and not to discuss Dan's previous sexual escapades with no one! McCormick's own daughter was sexually promiscuous and had to leave school for a while for fear of being pregnant."

"The bible states that a Senior Pastor must be one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?). Hence Senior Pastor McCormick resigned as pastor in the spring of the next year when he sought to divorce his wife."

"Dan Earl Allmond faced two counts of unlawful sexual activity with a minor. Police said that the youth pastor had sexual relations with the girl on church property and at his home on W Paris Street. The sexual relations occurred between August and October, Cole said according to jail records reported the Tampa Tribune."

"Allmond is a Sex Offender under Florida law and now the Florida Department of Law Enforcement's Sexual Offender/Predator Unit has his picture pasted on the web at:

http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/sexual_predators/OffenderFlyer.asp?keys=26812

"Most Southern Baptist pastors and preachers are hypocrites in that they don't practice what they preach. Take the case of the Rev. Jerry Falwell, a Southern Baptist and religious right fundamentalist, who jumped on the media bandwagon about Roman Catholic pedophile priests and stated:"

"It is time for the Catholic Church to get serious about protecting children."

"The fact is, any cleric - Catholic or Protestant - who molests a child to satisfy his own dark urges should be immediately dismissed and severely punished. Period."

"However, church leaders have gone blind to their responsibilities. Revelations that top U.S. clergy protected pedophiles and failed to prevent them from interacting with credulous children is simply unforgivable. It is criminal! This is not the time for compromise, settlement or bargain. It is time for the church to attend to ridding itself of pedophiles and painstakingly ensuring that virtuous and honorable men are recruited to replace them."

"President Bush has stated that any nation that harbors terrorists is guilty of terrorism. Similarly, any church leader who provides safe haven for a pedophile priest, pastor or rabbi is just as guilty. It is unthinkable that men who have yielded their lives to ministry would descend to such depths that they would sexually abuse little children. It is just as unthinkable that a church leader would protect these men.
( Catholic Church leadership must expel pedophiles By Rev. Jerry Falwell Worldnetdaily April 27, 2002)"

"But according to Southern Baptists own statistics and reports most of their pastors are sexual perverts and reality shows their church leaders protects their pastors and not the sheep."

"Just as a hidden iceberg destroyed the Titanic after the crew had ignored multiple warnings, lives and ministries of pastors and other church staff are being destroyed at a remarkable rate by sexual infidelity, the president of the Southern Baptist North American Mission Board warned a group of pastors, missionaries and other denominational leaders."

"Robert E. Reccord cautioned pastors, missionaries and other denominational leaders attending the April 10-13 Connection 2002 conference in Ontario, California, about avoiding temptations that lead to sexual infidelity."

"Reccord cited survey statistics from the book "Men's Secret Wars" by Patrick Means that indicated 64 percent of pastors or church staff struggled with sexual addiction or compulsion. Twenty-five percent admitted to having sexual intercourse with someone besides their wife while married, and after they had accepted Christ. Another 14 percent admitted some form of sexual contact short of intercourse."

"Reccord also noted the importance of every Christian leader having someone to whom he is accountable, someone who will ask him the hard questions about his personal life and thoughts. He noted research which found little in common among more than 200 fallen ministers except two things: all no longer had a regular quiet time in fellowship with God, and none had made themselves accountable to a person or group."

"Ann Graham Lotz, the second daughter of Southern Baptist Evangelist Billy Graham, stated in Tampa, Florida in April 2002, "I'm not accountable to my critics, I'm only accountable to God." And her father Billy Graham had tried to avoid accountability for his criticism of Jews that was caught on tape decades ago on his age and forgetfulness. The "I don't recall" technique was used often by former president Bill Clinton to avoid accountability concerning his sexual liaison with Monica Lewinsky in the White House."

"Sexual involvement by Baptist leaders with others is a real problem in North America. A 1991 national survey of mainly Protestant pastors by a group at the Center for Ethics and Social Policy, Graduate Theological Union, in Berkeley, California -- described by its researchers as "small and not scientifically controlled" -- uncovered similar findings: About 10 percent of those surveyed had been sexually involved with a parishioner. Another study published in the winter 1993 Journal of Pastoral Care found that only 6.1 percent of Southern Baptist pastor respondents admitted to having sexual contact with a person either currently or formerly affiliated with their church."

"Surveys of ministers reveal the existence of a growing moral breakdown in pastors' lives. Almost one in four pastors answered yes to the question, "Since you've been in local church ministry, have you ever done anything with someone (not your spouse) that you feel was sexually inappropriate?" One in five pastors confessed to sexual misconduct of some kind, with one in eight admitting adultery, and only 4 in 100 were found out by their local church. (1988 survey in Leadership magazine)."

"On April 8, 2002 the Christian Science Monitor reported that 'Despite headlines focusing on the priest pedophile problem in the Roman Catholic Church, most American churches being hit with child sexual-abuse allegations are Protestant, and most of the alleged abusers are not clergy or staff, but church volunteers. These are findings from national surveys by Christian Ministry Resources (CMR), a tax and legal-advice publisher serving more than 75,000 congregations and 1,000 denominational agencies nationwide."

"The CMR findings also reveal:
- Most church child-sexual-abuse cases involve a single victim.
- Law suits or out-of-court settlements were a result in 21 percent of the allegations reported in the 2000 survey.
- Volunteers are more likely than clergy or paid staff to be abusers. Perhaps more startling, children at churches are accused of sexual abuse as often as are clergy and staff. In 1999, for example, 42 percent of alleged child abusers were volunteers - about 25 percent were paid staff members (including clergy) and 25 percent were other children."

"On March 25, 2002 the LA Times in an article by TERESA WATANABE, Times Staff Writer Sex Abuse by Clerics-a Crisis of Many Faiths wrote:"

"The wave of clergy sex scandals now engulfing the Roman Catholic Church has battered other denominations as well, producing an uneven record of response that ranges from the Episcopal Church's aggressive and detailed policies to the Southern Baptist Convention's widespread lack of written standards."

"Similar charges have been leveled against the Southern Baptist Convention, the largest of the Baptist bodies in the United States. Dee Ann Miller, a victim's advocate and author of books about the topic, said she had received complaints from victims in 30 states, half of them involving minors. She said church officials have not been responsive."

"When she first told church officials about her own sexual assault by a Southern Baptist missionary in Africa several years ago, Miller said, she was told by two leaders that it was at least partly her fault.
In a 1993 survey by the Journal of Pastoral Care, 14% of Southern Baptist ministers surveyed said they had engaged in inappropriate sexual behavior, 70% said they knew a minister who had and 80% said they lacked written guidelines."

"Richard Land, president of the Southern Baptist ethics committee, said the convention's churches are fully autonomous and probably did not adopt written policies because it was obvious that sexual misconduct was wrong. He said training about sexual misconduct is conducted at Southern Baptist seminaries, which produce about half of the convention's clergy, and that the cases he knows about led to swift removal or resignation of the guilty party."

"Most Baptist ministers know sexual misconduct is a career-ending move," he said."

"It's amazing that no one is alarmed that the survey reported that "14% of Southern Baptist ministers surveyed said they had engaged in inappropriate sexual behavior." But because Southern Baptist churches and Assembly of God Churches are fully autonomous it's very easy and convenient for these churches to bury a scandal as was done with Tampa Baptist Academy?"

"While the full extent of the problem isn't known, a 2000 survey of 1,394 U.S. churches found that 3 percent indicated they had responded in the past year to an allegation of sexual misconduct involving children."
Click to expand...
 
MW: are they permitted to do all this, either in their religion, or in the religious laws (which there aren't) of their state? Which Biblical passage commands frolicking with prostitutes and the molestation of children? Do any of the above occur in a positive context in Christian tradition, at least? Why or why not?
 
GeoffP said:
MW: are they permitted to do all this, either in their religion, or in the religious laws (which there aren't) of their state? Which Biblical passage commands frolicking with prostitutes and the molestation of children? Do any of the above occur in a positive context in Christian tradition, at least? Why or why not?
Click to expand...
*************
M*W: As far as I know, the above are not permitted in christian religions. However, there is a deep-rooted psychological understanding of the ancient Essenes who worshipped semen. I've given this some thought for a long time. I think celibacy in the RCC has led to the molestation of those who are the most vulnerable. Anytime you suppress a natural urge for survival (air, water, food, sex, etc.), it will come out in a perverted way. However, I don't think all of these clergy did these things for some deep-seated psychological need. They did it because they thought they could get away with it.
 
Worshipped semen?

Err...allll rightie. But yeah, I think priests should just be allowed to get married and get on with it. Definitely a good idea.
 
Medicine*Woman said:
sandy said:
Christians don't strap bombs on their children either:
*************
M*W: No they stap bombs on them, they just rape and molest them and destroy their lives. They just line them up and drown them one-by-one. (Andrea P. Yates)

They sexually molest their daughters and make their wives perform perverted sexual acts.
(Matthew Winkler)

They take a liking to street whores. (Jimmy Swaggart)

They impregnant young women and produce illigitimate children when they are married and in the public's eye. (Jesse Jackson)

They bilk the ignorant public of their money in exchange for prayers. Yeah, right. (Jim & Tammy Faye Bakker)

They have affairs with other men, go to massage parlors, and do illegal drugs. (Ted Haggard)

They have sex with young teens in their youth ministry program and get 135 years in prison. (Randy Lee Morrow)

They abused children for years and the church hid it. (Bernard Law)

They sexually abused young girls 12-15 years in their youth ministry and had 3-way sex with pastor's wife. (Marty Eugene Meadows)

They have sex with teenagers with their wives who are also implicated in the charges. (Kenneth Baxley)

Then there are the clergy who ministered to Bill Clinton, POTUS.

All devout christians! Yessiree!

In an article by William Levesque, he writes about how christian churches are showing increasing statistics where sexual abuse has taken place. Not all churches have reported such incidents, but they have occurred and been kept quiet. See below:

"The Southern Baptist Sexual Cover Up"

"Dan Earl Allmond, Youth Pastor of Tampa Baptist Church, Tampa, a Southern Baptist Church, and a married man, suddenly resigned on December 9, 1998 and disappeared off the scene when the police were called in concerning a complaint made by a female high school student that she was having sex with the pastor as a minor."

"Senior Pastor McCormick of Tampa Baptist Church denied all knowledge about the sexual activities and ordered the staff of Tampa Baptist Academy to stay silent on the whole matter and not to discuss Dan's previous sexual escapades with no one! McCormick's own daughter was sexually promiscuous and had to leave school for a while for fear of being pregnant."

"The bible states that a Senior Pastor must be one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?). Hence Senior Pastor McCormick resigned as pastor in the spring of the next year when he sought to divorce his wife."

"Dan Earl Allmond faced two counts of unlawful sexual activity with a minor. Police said that the youth pastor had sexual relations with the girl on church property and at his home on W Paris Street. The sexual relations occurred between August and October, Cole said according to jail records reported the Tampa Tribune."

"Allmond is a Sex Offender under Florida law and now the Florida Department of Law Enforcement's Sexual Offender/Predator Unit has his picture pasted on the web at:

http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/sexual_predators/OffenderFlyer.asp?keys=26812

"Most Southern Baptist pastors and preachers are hypocrites in that they don't practice what they preach. Take the case of the Rev. Jerry Falwell, a Southern Baptist and religious right fundamentalist, who jumped on the media bandwagon about Roman Catholic pedophile priests and stated:"

"It is time for the Catholic Church to get serious about protecting children."

"The fact is, any cleric - Catholic or Protestant - who molests a child to satisfy his own dark urges should be immediately dismissed and severely punished. Period."

"However, church leaders have gone blind to their responsibilities. Revelations that top U.S. clergy protected pedophiles and failed to prevent them from interacting with credulous children is simply unforgivable. It is criminal! This is not the time for compromise, settlement or bargain. It is time for the church to attend to ridding itself of pedophiles and painstakingly ensuring that virtuous and honorable men are recruited to replace them."

"President Bush has stated that any nation that harbors terrorists is guilty of terrorism. Similarly, any church leader who provides safe haven for a pedophile priest, pastor or rabbi is just as guilty. It is unthinkable that men who have yielded their lives to ministry would descend to such depths that they would sexually abuse little children. It is just as unthinkable that a church leader would protect these men.
( Catholic Church leadership must expel pedophiles By Rev. Jerry Falwell Worldnetdaily April 27, 2002)"

"But according to Southern Baptists own statistics and reports most of their pastors are sexual perverts and reality shows their church leaders protects their pastors and not the sheep."

"Just as a hidden iceberg destroyed the Titanic after the crew had ignored multiple warnings, lives and ministries of pastors and other church staff are being destroyed at a remarkable rate by sexual infidelity, the president of the Southern Baptist North American Mission Board warned a group of pastors, missionaries and other denominational leaders."

"Robert E. Reccord cautioned pastors, missionaries and other denominational leaders attending the April 10-13 Connection 2002 conference in Ontario, California, about avoiding temptations that lead to sexual infidelity."

"Reccord cited survey statistics from the book "Men's Secret Wars" by Patrick Means that indicated 64 percent of pastors or church staff struggled with sexual addiction or compulsion. Twenty-five percent admitted to having sexual intercourse with someone besides their wife while married, and after they had accepted Christ. Another 14 percent admitted some form of sexual contact short of intercourse."

"Reccord also noted the importance of every Christian leader having someone to whom he is accountable, someone who will ask him the hard questions about his personal life and thoughts. He noted research which found little in common among more than 200 fallen ministers except two things: all no longer had a regular quiet time in fellowship with God, and none had made themselves accountable to a person or group."

"Ann Graham Lotz, the second daughter of Southern Baptist Evangelist Billy Graham, stated in Tampa, Florida in April 2002, "I'm not accountable to my critics, I'm only accountable to God." And her father Billy Graham had tried to avoid accountability for his criticism of Jews that was caught on tape decades ago on his age and forgetfulness. The "I don't recall" technique was used often by former president Bill Clinton to avoid accountability concerning his sexual liaison with Monica Lewinsky in the White House."

"Sexual involvement by Baptist leaders with others is a real problem in North America. A 1991 national survey of mainly Protestant pastors by a group at the Center for Ethics and Social Policy, Graduate Theological Union, in Berkeley, California -- described by its researchers as "small and not scientifically controlled" -- uncovered similar findings: About 10 percent of those surveyed had been sexually involved with a parishioner. Another study published in the winter 1993 Journal of Pastoral Care found that only 6.1 percent of Southern Baptist pastor respondents admitted to having sexual contact with a person either currently or formerly affiliated with their church."

"Surveys of ministers reveal the existence of a growing moral breakdown in pastors' lives. Almost one in four pastors answered yes to the question, "Since you've been in local church ministry, have you ever done anything with someone (not your spouse) that you feel was sexually inappropriate?" One in five pastors confessed to sexual misconduct of some kind, with one in eight admitting adultery, and only 4 in 100 were found out by their local church. (1988 survey in Leadership magazine)."

"On April 8, 2002 the Christian Science Monitor reported that 'Despite headlines focusing on the priest pedophile problem in the Roman Catholic Church, most American churches being hit with child sexual-abuse allegations are Protestant, and most of the alleged abusers are not clergy or staff, but church volunteers. These are findings from national surveys by Christian Ministry Resources (CMR), a tax and legal-advice publisher serving more than 75,000 congregations and 1,000 denominational agencies nationwide."

"The CMR findings also reveal:
- Most church child-sexual-abuse cases involve a single victim.
- Law suits or out-of-court settlements were a result in 21 percent of the allegations reported in the 2000 survey.
- Volunteers are more likely than clergy or paid staff to be abusers. Perhaps more startling, children at churches are accused of sexual abuse as often as are clergy and staff. In 1999, for example, 42 percent of alleged child abusers were volunteers - about 25 percent were paid staff members (including clergy) and 25 percent were other children."

"On March 25, 2002 the LA Times in an article by TERESA WATANABE, Times Staff Writer Sex Abuse by Clerics-a Crisis of Many Faiths wrote:"

"The wave of clergy sex scandals now engulfing the Roman Catholic Church has battered other denominations as well, producing an uneven record of response that ranges from the Episcopal Church's aggressive and detailed policies to the Southern Baptist Convention's widespread lack of written standards."

"Similar charges have been leveled against the Southern Baptist Convention, the largest of the Baptist bodies in the United States. Dee Ann Miller, a victim's advocate and author of books about the topic, said she had received complaints from victims in 30 states, half of them involving minors. She said church officials have not been responsive."

"When she first told church officials about her own sexual assault by a Southern Baptist missionary in Africa several years ago, Miller said, she was told by two leaders that it was at least partly her fault.
In a 1993 survey by the Journal of Pastoral Care, 14% of Southern Baptist ministers surveyed said they had engaged in inappropriate sexual behavior, 70% said they knew a minister who had and 80% said they lacked written guidelines."

"Richard Land, president of the Southern Baptist ethics committee, said the convention's churches are fully autonomous and probably did not adopt written policies because it was obvious that sexual misconduct was wrong. He said training about sexual misconduct is conducted at Southern Baptist seminaries, which produce about half of the convention's clergy, and that the cases he knows about led to swift removal or resignation of the guilty party."

"Most Baptist ministers know sexual misconduct is a career-ending move," he said."

"It's amazing that no one is alarmed that the survey reported that "14% of Southern Baptist ministers surveyed said they had engaged in inappropriate sexual behavior." But because Southern Baptist churches and Assembly of God Churches are fully autonomous it's very easy and convenient for these churches to bury a scandal as was done with Tampa Baptist Academy?"

"While the full extent of the problem isn't known, a 2000 survey of 1,394 U.S. churches found that 3 percent indicated they had responded in the past year to an allegation of sexual misconduct involving children."
Click to expand...


Gee M*W if your problem is with sexual deviance then you may as well destroy all of society. I know for a fact that if we all went around naked we would be spontaneously humping...in streets, elevators, cab rides, supermarkets etc.
Click to expand...
 
Medicine*Woman said:
*************
M*W: As far as I know, the above are not permitted in christian religions. However, there is a deep-rooted psychological understanding of the ancient Essenes who worshipped semen. I've given this some thought for a long time. I think celibacy in the RCC has led to the molestation of those who are the most vulnerable. Anytime you suppress a natural urge for survival (air, water, food, sex, etc.), it will come out in a perverted way. However, I don't think all of these clergy did these things for some deep-seated psychological need. They did it because they thought they could get away with it.
Click to expand...

The RCC made many wrong decisions on hiring priests in the 70s and 80s, given the fact that this is a hard to fill position and not everyone can make that sacrifice, many with emotional problems (including closet homosexuals) got through.

I honestly think you should be more in tune with the society we live in. Getting rid of religion will not solve any problems but just may make things worse....much worse.

But this will never happen given the human inclination towards spirituality. Rehashing the priest stuff over aqnd over is a cheap shot, as if there are no atheist pedos, rapists, pornographers, serial killers etc.
 
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