sandy: answer these claims against Christianity

[Photizo]

I am doomed!

For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

 

[SnakeLord]

For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

And Sam said "Throw it into the fire Frodo!" :shrug:

 

[SetiAlpha6]

For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

So, you are saying that people can be justified by their own words? Why do they need a blood sacrifice then?

Let me say one thing, "I am justified!"

There I said it... I guess I am...

Take Care!

 

[juju]

That's a lot of killing...

 

[juju]

A lot...

 

[Adstar]

According to the Bible, especially if you are a man, you get the death penalty and then eternal torture if you ever just look at a girl and think that she is beautiful, or sexy, even once. And "good" Christian women encourage this all of the time with the way they dress at church. They should wear tents or something to church, but instead they usually try to dress as attractively as possible.

The Bible encourages woman to dress modestly and not in a sexually provocative manner. This is Good but no matter how a woman dresses and no matter how a man dresses they will, to a certain extent, provoke sexual desire in others. Especially if the other is intent on being sexually provoked. Men and woman are quite capable through their imagination to see past the most modest of clothing. God looks into the intent of the woman and the man to see what their intentions are in relation to their dress.

God designed men to think that women are attractive, beautiful, and even sexy (That is where babies come from after all! Be fruitful and multiply!) and then condemns them if they ever think that women are attractive, beautiful or even, (dare I say it) sexy.

I am doomed!

Do you fantasise and imagine yourself having sexual intercourse with that woman? Do you lust after that woman? Then yes you have sinned. and it is the same as adultery. But wether your doomed or not is not dependant on your sinful nature but your acceptance of the Messiah Jesus to redeem you from the eternal effect of your sinful nature.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

Why should I expect Jesus to bear my cross for me? That sounds like a cop out.

He has already done it. All it takes is for you to accept the fact and be thankful for it. It’s no cop out at all. It is the desire of God to Redeem sinners who are repentant of their sin.

In reality it was a control cult measure put in by the orthodox church(who happened to share the same bed as their roman masters).They wanted to make sure salvation or coming to God was done thru the church and not the individual.

Salvation does come from the individuals response to the message of Jesus and not through any church, looks like the cult factor you are pointing to has not had the effect you imagine on me.

You do realize it was the orthodox elements who along with the Romans finalized the final content of the bible.

What???? The orthodox/catholic split did not happen until centuries after the bible was finalised.

Since Jesus was usually in conflict with the orthodox priests during his lifetime and at the time of Jesus death they were still running the show, what makes you believe you are following an accurate version of the actual events?

I think you are full of confusion between orthodox jews and the eastern orthodox church, your entire post is full of confusion.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

They didn't even know they were naked - such was the height of their intellect, and had no knowledge of good or evil.

Even if they could understand god's language and the snakes language - how do you decide which of those to listen to with no understanding of good or evil? Is god good? How would you know? Is the snake evil? How would you know?

Well??

They knew who their Creator was, they knew how great He was, they rebelled because they wanted to be like Him "a God". So they cannot claim ignorance because the motivation of their actions was to be equal to God. God gave them clear instruction. Do not eat of the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil and they chose to rebel against that clear instruction.

Did I ever tell you about that time many years back when I was a slave in a camp in Botswana? The slave master told me to bow at his feet and serve his every need or else I would be constantly whipped to within an inch of my life.

The slave master didn't personally inflict the punishment - he had another staff member to do that, and I remember him often saying to me: "It's a choice. Accept my gift - lifelong servitude, or don't and get punished. If you get punished though it's not my fault, it's your choice".

Only the world's biggest smegging imbeciles thought he had made a good point.

There you go again, comparing apples with oranges. Your salve master was not God and therefore had no right to demand worship from you. Your slave master was not and is not perfect. Therefore He was in the wrong and doing evil in his demands.

But God is not a man, God is perfect and is worthy of reverence and worship.

Therefore punishment for rejecting the demands of an evil man is unjustified.

But punishment for rejecting the demands of a perfect God is justified, because it is evil to reject the will of perfection.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[SnakeLord]

They knew who their Creator was, they knew how great He was

Incorrect. Without knowledge of good or evil they could not have established whether it was worth listening to the snake or to this god because they could not establish which of them was good and which was evil. Where in the garden story does it imply that Adam and Eve knew that god was great?

So they cannot claim ignorance because the motivation of their actions was to be equal to God.

The "motivation" was simply for knowledge - something every human should want, and not something that would make them equal to gods. Why you would still want to be in a state where you're unaware that your penis is hanging out and you don't understand good and evil is beyond me. Equally beyond me is why a god would want you to be in that state.. Surely it is that which separates us from animals?

God gave them clear instruction.

And the snake told them clearly that god was wrong. With no knowledge of good or evil how are they supposed to know which one is lying?

Your salve master was not God and therefore had no right to demand worship from you.

What difference does that make? Why does an entity being very powerful give that entity the right to demand worship?

But God is not a man, God is perfect and is worthy of reverence and worship.

To some perhaps, but 'worthy of' and 'has the right to demand' are two completely different things. If it was shown that a god indeed created the universe sure, I would say thank you, while also expressing my distaste at some aspects of his creation. But worship? Pfft, this being even demanding such a thing shows more about that being than it should want to show.

 

[nova900]

He has already done it. All it takes is for you to accept the fact and be thankful for it. It’s no cop out at all. It is the desire of God to Redeem sinners who are repentant of their sin.

Well, I don't believe that was Jesus original intent. I believe it more likely he was simply a very enlightened man who was in "oneness" with God and sought to show others how to achieve the same.
Although I don't believe in all gnostic beliefs , many,many cases of Near Death Experiences bear out that much of it is true and that the conservative elements won out during the formation of the NT.
The orthodox I refer to are the conservative elements present during the time...the Pharisees.
Remember those guys? The ones that constantly provided conflict with Jesus?
They were the ones running the show (to an extent the Romans would allow of course)

 

[nova900]

Where in the garden story does it imply that Adam and Eve knew that god was great?

Or that he was good??

 

[SnakeLord]

Or that he was good??

Indeed.

 

[SetiAlpha6]

Do you fantasise and imagine yourself having sexual intercourse with that woman? Do you lust after that woman? Then yes you have sinned. and it is the same as adultery. But wether your doomed or not is not dependant on your sinful nature but your acceptance of the Messiah Jesus to redeem you from the eternal effect of your sinful nature.

Since you are apparently still able to see with both of your eyes and type the above, you are obviously not obedient to your own God or to His Word, for the Bible tells you exactly how to solve this almost universal human problem.

You are supposed to "gouge" your own eye out to solve what God Himself has so designed into each one of us from birth. And, according to the Bible, if you refuse to do this you will end up in eternal torment. Please pass the marshmallows...

Ummm... What about that other wayward eye that you still have left? A pretty girl walks by you on the street, and Gouge! But now, how in the world will you read your Bible? Well I guess there is the Braille version of the Bible. Perhaps that is why it exists in the first place.

Matthew 18:8-9
8If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. 9And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

By the way, in the real world, thinking that a woman is sexy is not at all the same as having sex with her. And thinking that an ice-cream cone would taste great right now, is not the same as actually eating one. That is simple common sense!