sandy: answer these claims against Christianity

[Kadark]

That is exactly my point. Obviously cell phones were based on the idea of the analog phones, but they use a different technology for transmission of data.

But...you said that cell phones couldn't have been created if we disagreed with analog phones. However, the NT was created through disagreement with the OT. One situation needs disagreement to go to the next level, and the other needs agreement. Hardly compatible.

BTW, are you Christian?

 

[VitalOne]

Jesus refined everything, Christians are supposed to technically follow Jesus...that's what Christianity means "follower of Christ"...

 

[Kadark]

I'm not real interested in talking to you anymore. Your confrontational/ accusatory tone "...sandy...shows no respect or interest in others" is not exactly making me want to waste time answering your questions. That's bs and you know it. I respect others. Just not others who want me and my country converted/dead. I am interested in other faiths and have asked sam questions.

You haven't the slightest understanding of Islam. Myself being Muslim, I study and learn about my religion, and I know how to defend it. When I see you call Muslims terrorists or say they are ordered by the Qur'an to kill apostates, I disagree because of my knowledge and look to prove you wrong.

I am a born-again Christian. I believe in/live by the New Testament/New Covenant. I can't explain some things in the Old Testament. Much of it depends on interpretation. I am not a Bible scholar. (They have been arguing/debating what it means for centuries. )

But the new testament also has death and bloodshed. Did you miss these parts of your Bible?

I am not going to debate your ridiculously lengthy list of topics. If you want to discuss one or two fine.

Would your God want you to ignore what I said? Educate me on Christianity and show where I am wrong.

 

[GeoffP]

If Jesus says turn the other cheek, then why does the Bible also say all of the things I posted?

If the Quran is complete, why was it necessary to have any other testaments? Why were there any books at all given to anyone prior to the Quran? Are you now forgetting all that business about Jesus coming to cause social strife? Where does it say he doesn't refute the violence of the OT? Does the parable about casting the first stone sort of pass you over then?

So according to you, the old Testament is obsolete? Abrogated? It should be discarded? Nothing in it should be followed?

I think Jesus said he came not to refute the "law": i.e. the Ten Commandments. On that basis, are the legal orders of say Deuterotomy and Leviticus really necessary?

And if Jesus said, turn the other cheek, is anyone today a Christian?

I dunno. If Mohammed said that "oppression is worse than slaughter", is anyone today a muslim?

 

[GeoffP]

You haven't the slightest understanding of Islam. Myself being Muslim, I study and learn about my religion, and I know how to defend it. When I see you call Muslims terrorists or say they are ordered by the Qur'an to kill apostates, I disagree because of my knowledge and look to prove you wrong.

See first you get into the above - and I note that if you're really looking to end violence in islam, you're preaching to the wrong people - and then you come right back with:

But the new testament also has death and bloodshed. Did you miss these parts of your Bible?

So should the violent injunctions then be followed, or not? I argue not.

Would your God want you to ignore what I said? Educate me on Christianity and show where I am wrong.

"Your God"? I thought that as far as Sandy was concerned the correct term would be "our God".

 

[sandy]

I understand Islam better than you think. I don't call all Muslims terrorists--just the ones who are. According to you I still don't get the apostates thing. My understanding was what I read in the Koran that I posted earlier.

The New Testament does not tell born-again Christians to kill innocent people. You don't see us screeching "Allah Akbar" and sawing people's heads off.

My God would want me to convert you to Christianity but I'm not even going to try. I'm not here to convert people. I do that all day/every day.

 

[Wisdom_Seeker]

But...you said that cell phones couldn't have been created if we disagreed with analog phones. However, the NT was created through disagreement with the OT. One situation needs disagreement to go to the next level, and the other needs agreement. Hardly compatible.

BTW, are you Christian?

The OT has many concepts Jesus clarified, and has many other Jesus dismissed. In other words, people used to base their faith in the OT, and Jesus came to renew those ignorant beliefs.

Nope, I’m not a Christian, and I don’t believe in any religion. I’m only a spiritual person, and I don’t hold a high opinion on religious dogmas.

I love reading about Jesus though, he was the best poet of the truth ever. It is like he came to teach the same concepts Gautama Buddha taught, but Jesus did it in a simpler manner. I think that Buddha would have had a very hard time trying to explain his teachings to fishermen like Jesus did.
For me, Jesus was a Buddha, and Gautama was a Christ, same concept.

 

[Kadark]

GeoffP, you're a horrible liar and completely twisted my words. Do you think I'm stupid?

I said: If Jesus says turn the other cheek, then why does the Bible also say all of the things I posted?

Yet you quote me as saying, after changing my words: And if Jesus said, turn the other cheek, is anyone today a Christian?

Just stfu and leave this thread. I'm not debating somebody who will change my words through quotes.

 

[Kadark]

I understand Islam better than you think. I don't call all Muslims terrorists--just the ones who are. According to you I still don't get the apostates thing. My understanding was what I read in the Koran that I posted earlier.

The New Testament does not tell born-again Christians to kill innocent people. You don't see us screeching "Allah Akbar" and sawing people's heads off.

My God would want me to convert you to Christianity but I'm not even going to try. I'm not here to convert people. I do that all day/every day.

Here you go about Islam again. You told me specifically that we could discuss Christianity in another thread. So...here we are. Right now, I still believe that Christians follow the murderous teachings on the quotes I listed in the first post of this thread.

You don't see us screeching "Allah Akbar" and sawing people's heads off.

Like this? http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/SAT405A.html

 

[Dark520]

This pretty much sums it up:

"And He who sits on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new" And He said, "Write, for these words are faithful and true." (Rev 21,5)

Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us--for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree" (Gal 3:13)

What makes people so sure that the New Testament isn't another mistake? A screw up?

 

[S.A.M.]

I think Jesus said he came not to refute the "law": i.e. the Ten Commandments. On that basis, are the legal orders of say Deuterotomy and Leviticus really necessary?

So Jesus said that Deut and Levic are not to be followed then?

I dunno. If Mohammed said that "oppression is worse than slaughter", is anyone today a muslim?

Considering that they are all slaughtering because they are oppressed, one would say so.

 

[Wisdom_Seeker]

I said: If Jesus says turn the other cheek, then why does the Bible also say all of the things I posted?

Because an old truth (from someone) has to die, in order for a higher truth (that of Jesus) to take its place.

What you are saying is like saying: If 1000 years ago they said the Earth was flat, then why do they now say the Earth is round?
We now know a higher truth, it doesn´t mean we should burn all the history books that narrate what happened when they used to think that the Earth was flat.

 

[S.A.M.]

Actually, they were like that before, during and after the time of Jesus, and some people are like that up to the current date. That is the reason why they crucified Jesus in the first place.

So basically no one is following Jesus anyway? Even after rejecting the OT?

And based on what Jesus said, isn't it better for Christians to give up all they have and sacrifice themselves for their faith?

So why don't they follow him?

 

[Kadark]

Wisdom Seeker: If you're comparing the NT to the Earth being round (which it is), then you must believe the NT is 100% scientifically factual.

 

[Wisdom_Seeker]

What makes people so sure that the New Testament isn't another mistake? A screw up?

Their blind faith maybe... But let me tell you man, I have learned a bunch of good things from the NT. But some people like to throw it out of their sight because of some grammar mistakes and human errors.

 

[Wisdom_Seeker]

Wisdom Seeker: If you're comparing the NT to the Earth being round (which it is), then you must believe the NT is 100% scientifically factual.

Man, if you´d like, I won´t post more analogies. They are just for illustration purposes, but I think they are generating more confusion than clarification.

 

[Wisdom_Seeker]

So basically no one is following Jesus anyway? Even after rejecting the OT?

And based on what Jesus said, isn't it better for Christians to give up all they have and sacrifice themselves for their faith?

So why don't they follow him?

There are some people following Jesus man, Buddhists.

 

[Kadark]

I agree. I never started this thread to argue you any, Wisdom Seeker. I find you're a pretty intelligent and sensible person, so I'll leave our little argument at this. I'm just awaiting sandy's response. I'd argue GeoffP, but I can't believe some people have the audacity to change people's words through quotes.

This is why I love face-to-face debates. None of these sleazy tricks.

 

[Wisdom_Seeker]

I agree. I never started this thread to argue you any, Wisdom Seeker. I find you're a pretty intelligent and sensible person, so I'll leave our little argument at this. I'm just awaiting sandy's response. I'd argue GeoffP, but I can't believe some people have the audacity to change people's words through quotes.

This is why I love face-to-face debates. None of these sleazy tricks.

Thanks for the thought, but I´m not very sensitive, it will take a hard time to get me angry, it is not so easy my friend. I like to mess with people´s heads sometimes, my bad.

Btw, I don´t think you´ll get an honest response from Sandy though, I have tried, many have tried...

 

[John99]

I agree. I never started this thread to argue you any, Wisdom Seeker. I find you're a pretty intelligent and sensible person, so I'll leave our little argument at this. I'm just awaiting sandy's response. I'd argue GeoffP, but I can't believe some people have the audacity to change people's words through quotes.

This is why I love face-to-face debates. None of these sleazy tricks.

No one here is obligated to respond to you and i thought threads targeted at specific people was not allowed. AND no one knows who 'Sandy' is so i would not take everything this person says to heart.