Right and wrong is determined by God

[phlogistician]

So public ridicule,

Believe in the ridiculous, then prepare to be ridiculed.

Do you believe the events as portayed in Revelations will happen literally as depicted Max? Or do you think it is reaonable to believe they will? Have you read Revelations Max? There's some freaky shit in there, it's like a frikking Tolkien novel. Do you believe in Elves? Do you think it's reaonable for others to believe in them because they read about them in a book?

 

[fiicere]

Believe in the ridiculous, then prepare to be ridiculed.

Do you believe the events as portayed in Revelations will happen literally as depicted Max? Or do you think it is reaonable to believe they will? Have you read Revelations Max? There's some freaky shit in there, it's like a frikking Tolkien novel. Do you believe in Elves? Do you think it's reaonable for others to believe in them because they read about them in a book?

Do you believe that objects are made of atoms? Where did you read about them? Oh right, a Book! Therefore, you believe in elves too, right!

Stop being such a hypocritical bigot and justify your logic properly.

 

[phlogistician]

Do you believe that objects are made of atoms? Where did you read about them? Oh right, a Book! Therefore, you believe in elves too, right!

Stop being such a hypocritical bigot and justify your logic properly.

You clearly aren't grasping the argument. On any belief in atoms, well, I studied a degree in Physics, an anybody can repeat the experiments and get the same data, and draw the same conclusions.

On events depicted in the bible, events that are yet to happen well, that's a different matter. The point is whether it's reasonable to believe such things, merely because they are written in a book. Do you get it yet?

 

[(Q)]

It showed a charicature of God, by those who wish to offend people who believe in God, but due to their ignorance fail miserably.

Then, anything that is made fun of is done so with the intent to offend. Therefore, you find no humor in anything, only offense and disdain.

What a sad and dreary life you lead.

 

[Baron Max]

You clearly aren't grasping the argument. On any belief in atoms, well, I studied a degree in Physics, ...

You believe in atoms and molecules and such? What color are they? Can you point one out to me so I can see it clearly? ...a real one, not an "artist's rendering" of one.

...and anybody can repeat the experiments and get the same data, and draw the same conclusions.

Oh, damn, you didn't know?! There's really little, tiny green men and women who run around down there in that molecular and atomic realm making all those human experiments work out properly. Geez, I thought you knew that having studied physics and all.

On events depicted in the bible, events that are yet to happen well, that's a different matter. The point is whether it's reasonable to believe such things, merely because they are written in a book. Do you get it yet?

Hmm, I think the biologists and such people use the book by Darwin in order to predict future finds in the natural world.

"Reasonable"? According to whom? Or is there a committee of some kind? Who decides "reasonable"? Can you post a list of rules on what's "reasonable"?

Baron Max

 

[(Q)]

The video showed the god, that many people belief strongly in, as a bumbling fool and an ignorant old man. And you don't think that such a video could possibly be offensive to those who believe in god?

See? That's the part that just bothers the hell out of me ....that you, James R., can actually pretend to be so fuckin' stupid and ignorant that he doesn't know what might be offensive to religious people or not.

Anything that is made fun of might be considered offensive by any number of people. Late night talk show hosts and stand up comedians make a living out of it. So what? You've never laughed at these guys jokes before?

Hypocrites.

 

[Baron Max]

Believe in the ridiculous, then prepare to be ridiculed.

Is that sorta' like ... "If you're fat, dumb and ugly, then be prepared to be ridiculed."? I mean, if you can ridicule a person's beliefs, why can't others ridicule a person's looks? If someone wears glasses, it's okay to ridicule them as "four-eyes"? If someone is a Downs Syndrome kid, is it okay to ridicule how they look and act and talk? Why not?

Baron Max

 

[fiicere]

You clearly aren't grasping the argument. On any belief in atoms, well, I studied a degree in Physics, an anybody can repeat the experiments and get the same data, and draw the same conclusions.

On events depicted in the bible, events that are yet to happen well, that's a different matter. The point is whether it's reasonable to believe such things, merely because they are written in a book. Do you get it yet?

That's better. Now your arguments are starting to be coherent.

Now, since you're a physicist, you should realize that the standards for physics don't work on everything. Correct? For example, things which are non-repeatable. For example, the life of George Washington. So, now, is it unreasonable to believe in George Washington, just because it's written in a book?

Obviously not. Therefore, just because something is both not scientifically verifiable and found in books, doesn't make it false by default. So, there are criteria for determining events which cannot be experimented on. And clearly they can't be scientific criteria.

So, if you're going to have this argument with me, please use the right standards of measurement. In this case historical. I can tell you for a fact that the Bible has the best backing of any historical document before Shakespeare. I can tell you that the witnesses are quite convincing. I could find evidence for a lot of things.

So if you want to have a discussion about the historical legitimacy of the Bible, let me know and we'll go ahead. But stop saying giving these silly unsupported arguments, because statements comparing the bible to Tolkien do not reflect your intelligence or you level of education.

 

[Baron Max]

Anything that is made fun of might be considered offensive by any number of people. Late night talk show hosts and stand up comedians make a living out of it. So what? You've never laughed at these guys jokes before?

Yeah, sure! But if James can ridicule someone for their beliefs in religion, why do I get threaten with banishment when I ridicule his (and others') beliefs in evolution? Hippo-critters???

Baron Max

 

[Baron Max]

Max, in debate, you first have to state what side you are arguing, ....

I did so quite clearly. In fact, I did so clearly enough that people continue to ask me why ...as if it's a personal issue.

I think James' post, and the video itself, might be offensive to people and pointed that out to James. And he then began to argue that it couldn't be offensive, etc. And here we are!

If James can ridicule a person's beliefs, why can't others ridicule any and all other things? ....race? ...looks? ...cultures? ...and any of thousands of other things?

Baron Max

 

[(Q)]

Yeah, sure! But if James can ridicule someone for their beliefs in religion, why do I get threaten with banishment when I ridicule his (and others') beliefs in evolution? Hippo-critters???

Baron Max

Are you really telling the truth about that, Baron? Aren't you being threatened with banishment for other reasons?

Come now, spit it out. Tell us how you really feel.

 

[Baron Max]

Are you really telling the truth about that, Baron? Aren't you being threatened with banishment for other reasons?

Come now, spit it out. Tell us how you really feel.

What I said above, about being threatened with banishment because of my comments about evolutions, is true! Ask that Hercules guy ...and check some of the threads on the "Genetics" forum. He deleted numerous posts of mine, and told me if I posted again, he shit-can me!

Baron Max

 

[phlogistician]

. I can tell you for a fact that the Bible has the best backing of any historical document before Shakespeare.

Oh please, that's utter bullshit. Go to Egypt.

 

[phlogistician]

You believe in atoms and molecules and such? What color are they?

Colour isnt a concept that functions at the atomic level Max.

Can you point one out to me so I can see it clearly? ...a real one, not an "artist's rendering" of one.

Google Scanning tunneling microscope Max. Or learn some Physics.

Oh, damn, you didn't know?! There's really little, tiny green men and women who run around down there in that molecular and atomic realm making all those human experiments work out properly. Geez, I thought you knew that having studied physics and all.

Been hitting the Bourbon tonight Max?

Hmm, I think the biologists and such people use the book by Darwin in order to predict future finds in the natural world.

Now you are being ridiculous. Again.

"Reasonable"? According to whom? Or is there a committee of some kind? Who decides "reasonable"? Can you post a list of rules on what's "reasonable"?

Baron Max

As it's your rant Max, can you?

 

[phlogistician]

I did so quite clearly. In fact, I did so clearly enough that people continue to ask me why ...as if it's a personal issue.

The only thing you've said clearly is that someone could be offended by that video. You haven't established that anyone actually is.

So I tried to discover your reasoning, and well, that's been hard to pin you down on.

People can be offended by anything, cultural and societal mores aren't the same the world over. In the UK, where that video was produced, such lampooning of God is acceptable. You know God, he's that man with the white beard that lives in a cloud.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Baron Max,

So if you don't think people should be offended, then they're not offended?

Be offended if you must, but question why you are offended, and upon doing
so you will surely realise that the video clip itself (which is what we are discussing), has nothing to do with God other than obvious references.
This is why atheists are necessary to theists, in that, we cannot become
complacent in what we term as 'belief in God'.

You have the final say in what people should think and how they should react to something?

No, but like you i do have an opinion, and feel no way about airing it.

And worse, you think that if people ARE offended, then it's because of some personal defect of theirs?!

No, I think that if people are offended by this kind of adolescent foolishness,
then they should question what they actually believe, or take a look a themselves in the light of what they believe.

You're not exactly what people would call "tolerant", Jan.

What does "tolerence" have to do with this particular thread?

jan.

 

[Jan Ardena]

And just so you know, I'm probably going to have to quit posting on this issue. So if I don't respond to your next post, be aware that it's not because I don't want to ...it might be that I'm scared to do so!

Baron Max

Scared of what, or whom?


jan.

 

[Baron Max]

Colour isnt a concept that functions at the atomic level Max.

How do you know that if you've never seen an atom? Ahh, you ....believe... that atoms have no color, right?

Baron Max

 

[Baron Max]

Be offended if you must, but question why you are offended, and upon doing so you will surely realise that the video clip itself (which is what we are discussing), has nothing to do with God other than obvious references.

So, once again, if you and the others don't think that anyone should be offended, then the "ridicule" (or whatever it was/is) is perfectly okay as a fun little thing to do?

And by your same logic, if someone wants to ridicule blacks or muslims or Downs kids, cripples, or retards, then they shouldn't be offended ...IF the one doing the ridiculing doesn't think they should be offended, right?

No, I think that if people are offended by this kind of adolescent foolishness, then they should question what they actually believe, or take a look a themselves in the light of what they believe.

Wanna' see how fast I get banned if I start to ridicule blacks or gays?

Baron Max

 

[James R]

S.A.M.:

Why did you post the video James?

Because (a) I thought it was funny, and (b) I thought it raised the question of whether right and wrong are determined by God in an interesting and thought-provoking manner. It invites people to question what they believe about the origins of morality.


Max:

The video showed the god, that many people belief strongly in, as a bumbling fool and an ignorant old man.

Do you think the God that many people believe in really is an old man who lives in the sky? I thought most people's beliefs were a little more sophisticated than that. Is that your belief?

And you don't think that such a video could possibly be offensive to those who believe in god?

It possibly could. But I'm not hearing any real complaints from religious people here. I'm only hearing you making complaints on behalf of a potentially imaginary group of people who you think might be offended.

Here's the view of one religious member of sciforums:

It showed a charicature of God, by those who wish to offend people who believe in God, but due to their ignorance fail miserably.

i.e. Jan was not offended by what he regards as a caricature.