Religious Intolerance

[Lori_7]

Doesn't what? You are being vague again.

Are you saying god doesn't respect people for denigrating others, or he doesn't denigrate others?

god doesn't denigrate people for their gender or sexuality. but some religious people do. and no, he's not for that.

 

[swarm]

I'm saying to respect the person REGARDLESS of belief.

The person and their beliefs are not separate. I'm willing to tolerate them. But if they insist on promoting absurd beliefs then I cannot respect them.

Idea's or beliefs are not threatening in any aspect, ACTING on some of them can be!

The belief and the act are not separate.

The lie of god is non trivial in its consequences.

 

[spidergoat]

I'm not asking anyone to respect someone else's belief, I'm saying to respect the person REGARDLESS of belief.

Of course, that almost goes without saying.

...Idea's or beliefs are not threatening in any aspect, ACTING on some of them can be! That is why religion is in fact a neutral concept. It becomes positive or negative when people act on behalf of religious belief. ...But it is PURELY up to the believer which path he chooses within that belief structure; a postive, neutral or negative stance which will then define the result of his actions.

I'm afraid it is far more insidious than that. Believers do not have a choice. Once you believe in a (judeo/islamic/christian) religion, that means some sins are punished by everlasting tortures.

If I were to play Grand Theft Auto for years and then decide to follow the main concept in the game which is violence and go out and shoot people and run them over with cars, is the game to blame or the player?

Grand Theft auto is fictional. This is different than religion which claims (and believers believe) it is not fictional.

If I were to listen to a heavy metal band and then show up at some school and start shooting people because it suggests to do so in the song, is that the fault of the music or the listener?

Again, heavy metal is a fantasy, a fiction. No metal band really wants people to act out what is in their songs, and everyone knows that.

 

[S.A.M.]

I, myself, am an atheist and I do take pride in my knowledge and rationality; being able to distinct fact from fiction.

I'm still waiting for evidence that MZ3Boy84 can distinguish between fact and fiction.

 

[Thoreau]

I'm still waiting for evidence that MZ3Boy84 can distinguish between fact and fiction.

LOL! It's called having knowledge. How the hell would you prove that to someone else anyway?

 

[S.A.M.]

LOL! It's called having knowledge. How the hell would you prove that to someone else anyway?

So there is no evidence? Its a personal experience you cannot share with anyone?

 

[Thoreau]

I could in person.

 

[S.A.M.]

Do tell. How would you share your knowledge and ability to separate fact from fiction in person? As a proud atheist?

 

[Thoreau]

I think you've completely tipped your rocker, SAM.

 

[S.A.M.]

Clearly, the problem is mine. While your thread is well intentioned [and long long overdue in this forum], I don't think your basic values are any different from those you criticise in it. All you're doing is adding the ingredient of patronising in it and acting like its a favour.

 

[Thoreau]

? Oh, do share. I am quite interested to see where you believe my values to lay. This should be quite interesting indeed!

 

[S.A.M.]

I already shared. Perhaps its time to call upon that ability and knowledge of yours.

 

[Thoreau]

I'm not sure what answer you're really looking for here, SAM. You asked how I can distinguish fact from fiction. The answer is quite simple and self-explanitory. What else are you looking for?

 

[S.A.M.]

Suppose I was to say:

I, myself, am a heterosexual and I do take pride in my morality and social status, being able to distinct [sic!] evil sins from good, moral and normal behaviour. I however also believe that everyone's morality is between God and themselves. If you want to put your penis up someones anal canal or in some guys mouth, if this is your definition of a normal sex life, then go ahead. Do sinful immoral and abnormal things if you want to, I don't care. And neither should anyone else. Let God take care of your soul.


What would you think?

 

[Thoreau]

I'd agree. Live and let live.

 

[S.A.M.]

Then we differ. I would consider it highly patronising.

 

[Thoreau]

How so?

 

[S.A.M.]

If I have you explain why, you probably won't get it.

 

[Thoreau]

I just don't understand why it's not considered OK to let people hold their beliefs as long as it causes you no harm.

 

[S.A.M.]

It is. I'm perfectly okay with you holding on to your beliefs as long as it causes me no harm.