Religion Just Sucks Hairy Balls and then Some

falcon22 said:
Dude, I know people kill people. That's a given. But religion fuels that. What, you think Jesus was killed just because people kill people? No, Jesus went against the Jewish teachings (religion in that time), no one liked that, and since their religion told them to kill the blesphemer (the biggest sin of them all) and they followed their teachings and killed Jesus.

The key thing to note is that though religion does preach love and all that, it also preaches moral standards, which are used to judge other people and their circumstances. Religious people don't look at drug addicts as other human beings bounded by the circumstances they were born in and thus needs forms of rehabilitation, but instead views them as sinners who needs to either change their ways or go to prison as their punishment. REligion makes the religious person feel more superior to others and gives them a firm belief that they will end up in heaven wheareas the people with different opinions around them will end up in hell. With that kind of mindset, religion fuels anger, division, and even to some extent, war.

Christopher Columbus decimated millions of natives here in America for the name of God and conversion. Of course, search for gold and spices and slaves was involved; I don't deny that. But God was used as an excuse, Christianity justified the conquest. When religion is used to justify the deaths and rapes of millions of people, that's when I start to realize, religion is just a piece of shit. And religion also is a waste of time.

Why waste breath arguing, and trying to convert? We should waste more breath trying to destroy racist thoughts in our minds. Life is not a morality play as religions try to make it out to be; life simply is life, and it needs simply be lived, as best as possible.
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It is easy to see why religion get's blamed for war's and violence but alot of details are left out, forgotten or changed in these old stories.

TBH I believe that in most cases money and power were the real factor, if we knew the behind the scenes action taking place...sure hundred's of years later we can glorify or vilify but that just romanticizes thing's.

I have no doubt that at it's core religion is positive, you can of course proclaim atheism but your merely supressing natural inclinations.
 
samcdkey said:
What I find really anomalous is that atheists claim that the absence of evidence about God does not prove his presence; yet they use the same argument to try and prove that atheism is better than theism.
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You can be true to a god delusion or true to yourself, take your pick and decide which is better.
 
(Q) said:
You can be true to a god delusion or true to yourself, take your pick and decide which is better.
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Serial killers are also true to themselves.

Random morality that is arbitrarily determined is not always the more attractive option.
 
How was religion progressive regarding slavery in United States? What about regarding expulsion of Native Americans to reservations? What about those who were executed in Puritan societies for adultery and for professing other faiths? What about those Mormons who were killed and pushed to Utah? How was it progressive then?

As for science, science is not a religion. I don't believe that just because atoms can be split, that if someone else doesn't believe that, I try to convert them into beliving that, and if they don't, I try to wage war against the infidel who doesn't believe in science!

Science surely created weapons and things of horror, but did scientific principles ever preach about using them? No, it was people who controlled the fruits of science.

Let's look at it the other way. What are the fruits of religion? Did the leaders manipulate the fruits of religion or the principle of religion? Ah ha. They used the principles saying that it was God's will to kill those infidels. After all, most religions prescribe certain punishments for certain acts. Those punishments and those judgmental standards are what makes religion dangerous and what makes science merely a tool.
 
falcon22 said:
How was religion progressive regarding slavery in United States? What about regarding expulsion of Native Americans to reservations? What about those who were executed in Puritan societies for adultery and for professing other faiths? What about those Mormons who were killed and pushed to Utah? How was it progressive then?

As for science, science is not a religion. I don't believe that just because atoms can be split, that if someone else doesn't believe that, I try to convert them into beliving that, and if they don't, I try to wage war against the infidel who doesn't believe in science!

Science surely created weapons and things of horror, but did scientific principles ever preach about using them? No, it was people who controlled the fruits of science.

Let's look at it the other way. What are the fruits of religion? Did the leaders manipulate the fruits of religion or the principle of religion? Ah ha. They used the principles saying that it was God's will to kill those infidels. After all, most religions prescribe certain punishments for certain acts. Those punishments and those judgmental standards are what makes religion dangerous and what makes science merely a tool.
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So the scientists are being guided by religious principles when they build weapons of mass destruction.
 
samcdkey said:
Serial killers are also true to themselves.
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Is that a fact or another strawman argument?

"Jeffrey Dahmer was one of the most infamous and notorious serial killers in American history. Dahmer was born into a family of devout members of the Stone-Campbell denomination known as the "church of Christ" or "Churches of Christ." Some people have speculated that Dahmer's Biblical religious background may have contributed to a negative view of homosexuals, which in turn contributed to a negative self-image and a hatred of himself and other homosexuals, which in turn led him to become a serial killer."

http://www.adherents.com/people/pd/Jeffrey_Dahmer.html

Random morality that is arbitrarily determined is not always the more attractive option.
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You'd first need to find evidence for such a claim and build a case. I've not seen such a case. And so far, the evidence is not in your favor.
 
Still no answer on how religion has been progressive regarding those things I mentioned. You can't answer it, can you?
 
Why did Isiah hide in a cave?

Didn't he have faith in God? Study your religion before saying stuff like that.
 
samcdkey said:
So why are they hiding in caves?

Don't they have faith in God?;)
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Al Quida has faith in Allah and Al Quida is active and does not hide in caves, Allah tells Al Quida which place is most safe for them and were the main leader is to be protected as a spiritual advisor.
 
falcon22 said:
Still no answer on how religion has been progressive regarding those things I mentioned. You can't answer it, can you?
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You seem to think that religion is a panacea for ills.

Religion is a moral framework.

If people were perfect, there would be no need for accountability.
 
(Q) said:
Who are the ones giving the command to detonate those weapons, the scientists?
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samcdkey said:
Can you hear yourself? Listen closely and tell me what your question implies.
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No Sam, can you hear yourself? You've just copped out of an argument by using the quote "Can you hear yourself?" You've provided no counter argument, no evidence, no exmpale, but simply a cop out.

If you soooo know what that question implies, why don't you tell us instead of telling him if he can hear himself? Or do you want me to do that for you?

Fine.

He's implying that it's not the principles of science (i.e. phsyics, biology, astrology) that forces people to use the WMD but in fact, it is the people in power who have the access to those weapons who control its use and its detonation. Scientists who make those shouldn't be considered as principle scientists anymore but rather as factory workers who merely obey the power structure for their benefit. So there, it's not the principles of science that's manufacturing WMD but those in power who wants to use WMD as tools to threaten other world powers and to initimate other world powers.

That's what his question implies. Did that help?
 
(Q) said:
Is that a fact or another strawman argument?

"Jeffrey Dahmer was one of the most infamous and notorious serial killers in American history. Dahmer was born into a family of devout members of the Stone-Campbell denomination known as the "church of Christ" or "Churches of Christ." Some people have speculated that Dahmer's Biblical religious background may have contributed to a negative view of homosexuals, which in turn contributed to a negative self-image and a hatred of himself and other homosexuals, which in turn led him to become a serial killer."

http://www.adherents.com/people/pd/Jeffrey_Dahmer.html



You'd first need to find evidence for such a claim and build a case. I've not seen such a case. And so far, the evidence is not in your favor.
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So if a (possibly mentally deranged) serial killer happens to be a theist, religion is to blame.

But if a nuclear weapon making(educated, rational, moral, compassionate, caring) scientist happens to be an atheist, it is scientific curiosity.

Yes, I'm getting the hang of your logic.
 
samcdkey said:
You seem to think that religion is a panacea for ills.

Religion is a moral framework.

If people were perfect, there would be no need for accountability.
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Yes, a moral framework that seem to have tendency to make people be judgmental and make them have predilection to put religion down someone's throat.

And if this moral framework advocated stoning homosexuals and adulterers to death, would you really consider that moral?

Confuicisionism is a moral framework, but it's not considered a religion. Philosophy is a moral framework but not religion.

REligion may be a moral framework, but there are things added with that framework that causes justification for such things as slavery, explusion, executions, and even genocide.
 
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