Aliens friend and/or foe, or made up?
questions to an abductee
- Thread starter zonabi
- Start date
Why am I here (in this forum)? Being here helps me to see myself - an awareness (in a broader sense) of who I am within this human environment of which I am a part. And doing so in a way that merely writing in my journal never could. It's as if I were seeing myself through the eyes of others, of those others with whom I interact.
Accepting that I am who I say that I am, must be disconcerting to those souls so inclined – even accepting the possibility of me, must be so as well. Disbelief would be far less disturbing, far less of an assault on the senses, no doubt.
No need to rock the boat as far as someone’s underlying belief system is concerned.
If I exist in violation or in conflict to someone’s worldview (their underlying view of their world, and their place or role within their world), then chances are, I will be deemed wrong, and dismissed – no need to alter one’s worldview on account of me.
This I can understand.
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Accepting that I am who I say that I am, must be disconcerting to those souls so inclined – even accepting the possibility of me, must be so as well. Disbelief would be far less disturbing, far less of an assault on the senses, no doubt.
No need to rock the boat as far as someone’s underlying belief system is concerned.
If I exist in violation or in conflict to someone’s worldview (their underlying view of their world, and their place or role within their world), then chances are, I will be deemed wrong, and dismissed – no need to alter one’s worldview on account of me.
This I can understand.
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Possibly, this is why I have encountered such outright hostility at times – better to discredit or ‘debunk’ me, than to take on the overwhelming task of altering one’s worldview. After all, we’ve learned our worldview from our parents, teachers and the like, those souls with which we have placed our trust.
There is a seriousness to all of this for me.
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There is a seriousness to all of this for me.
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I am not at odds with anyone - I have nothing to prove, nor disprove, for that matter. I am whom I am, regardless of what that may mean (or what the implications are) to those around me.
I cannot be something other than what I am, simply because of what paradigmical conflicts might arise within others.
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I cannot be something other than what I am, simply because of what paradigmical conflicts might arise within others.
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Jocariah,
I must say I am impressed, a little bemuzed and confronted by your approach to this whole issue.
You are stating your understanding clearly and concisely. You are making no endeavour to change your reader , and yet by mere wrtting you are doing so.
In a way it's bit like me saying " I am a tree, I exist as a tree and whether you agree or not this is what I am. Whether I can prove this or not is irrelevant."
This is an interesting approach. The reader can only be bemuzed and not confronted.
By not trying to change the reader you are inviting them to take on your information as an abstract if needed, a fantasy, a fiction or even if their particular bent is such a "truism".
There is no doubt that you believe or now what you have experienced. It is entirely up to the reader to determine it's validity and of course it is impossible to do so.
In a way it's like describing a dream that you may have had. And well what is the normal response to a description of a dream.
I find you r approach impressive and no how long you may have worked on yourself to get to this point where you can express your feelings with out extremes of passion.
congradulations
I must say I am impressed, a little bemuzed and confronted by your approach to this whole issue.
You are stating your understanding clearly and concisely. You are making no endeavour to change your reader , and yet by mere wrtting you are doing so.
In a way it's bit like me saying " I am a tree, I exist as a tree and whether you agree or not this is what I am. Whether I can prove this or not is irrelevant."
This is an interesting approach. The reader can only be bemuzed and not confronted.
By not trying to change the reader you are inviting them to take on your information as an abstract if needed, a fantasy, a fiction or even if their particular bent is such a "truism".
There is no doubt that you believe or now what you have experienced. It is entirely up to the reader to determine it's validity and of course it is impossible to do so.
In a way it's like describing a dream that you may have had. And well what is the normal response to a description of a dream.
I find you r approach impressive and no how long you may have worked on yourself to get to this point where you can express your feelings with out extremes of passion.
congradulations
Jocariah said:
You don't think claiming that out of the six billion people on the planet aliens choose a particluar person, and serially abduct them, smacks of ego?
maybe being the only person that hasn't been abducted out of 6 billion people smacks of ego too......Ha,,,,(sorry I couldn't help it.... 
)
)
I don't know, I could cook up a theory for that.
Works on the basis of Causality and Paradoxes. If someone generates a paradox where two universes exist, you then have the problem of an individual doing his daily routine in one being out of sync with the other universe. (In fact theory suggests that being too much out of sync generates Oscillation of the molecules that can appear like being attacked by satellites and even lead to a form of Nitrogen Narcosis)
There is also the mild threat of a fission reaction, which might be too great for some (imagine a whole planet of people spontaneously human combusting at fission level... not nice)
The only option in certain respects would be to try and patch up the universal fabric as best as possible, this would mean abducting a person from both universes at the same time, and placing them into the same space that they are suppose to be placed at, and let them recaliberate back to society.
This is where they start seeing their little "re-intergration with a singular universe" as being an alien abduction, what they don't know was they were a nuclear reaction waiting to explode.
[Btw, this is a bogus theory, unless more SHC cases are reported]
Works on the basis of Causality and Paradoxes. If someone generates a paradox where two universes exist, you then have the problem of an individual doing his daily routine in one being out of sync with the other universe. (In fact theory suggests that being too much out of sync generates Oscillation of the molecules that can appear like being attacked by satellites and even lead to a form of Nitrogen Narcosis)
There is also the mild threat of a fission reaction, which might be too great for some (imagine a whole planet of people spontaneously human combusting at fission level... not nice)
The only option in certain respects would be to try and patch up the universal fabric as best as possible, this would mean abducting a person from both universes at the same time, and placing them into the same space that they are suppose to be placed at, and let them recaliberate back to society.
This is where they start seeing their little "re-intergration with a singular universe" as being an alien abduction, what they don't know was they were a nuclear reaction waiting to explode.
[Btw, this is a bogus theory, unless more SHC cases are reported]
Quantum Quack said:
Hello QQ,
I think your comments are very insightful.
This medium in which we participate, is not conducive to proving anything – I am here not to prove anything, but rather to explore my situation, such as it is.
I am only interested in these phenomena as they pertain to my involvement with them. I am not on a quest to gather additional information. I am aware that there are numerous others like me – I know of four other abductees that I have personally met. I am aware that there are books and studies on this, so that to my way of thinking, there may be countless people like me.
I am inclined to interact with only those here that can at least entertain the possibility that people like me exist – otherwise, what would be the point. Who can prove anything in this medium? And what would be my motivation for me to even try?
I have an underlying belief (if one might choose to call it that) that people can make up their own minds, in a way that is best for them. Even though we all see the world in different ways – we see the world in a way that is best for us individually. I see no need for all of us to think alike.
I am not outwardly trying to alter anyone’s belief system, but invariably, to acknowledge me as being who I am, or even the possibility of me being who I am, one cannot help but to alter their underlying belief system – their worldview if you will.
QQ, if you understand this concept, you can then understand how the world’s view of itself is subtlety being altered (by them) over time, via these phenomena. In simply accepting just the ‘possibility’ of it all, one’s perspective (or worldview) becomes altered.
Cheers
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I recently sent an email to a member of an organization that attempts to counsel abductees (though a network of psychotherapists). Here is my query, followed by his response. Thought this might be of interest.
Dear X,
If there was one central question that you would like answered pertaining to these extraordinary phenomena, seeing as how you’ve all been so immersed in this, what might that question be?
[X’s REPONSDS]
I think our organization would be most interested in knowing why there are memory and perceptual difficulties with these experiences, and what can be done to help make them more easily integrated into people's lives.
...
Dear X,
If there was one central question that you would like answered pertaining to these extraordinary phenomena, seeing as how you’ve all been so immersed in this, what might that question be?
[X’s REPONSDS]
I think our organization would be most interested in knowing why there are memory and perceptual difficulties with these experiences, and what can be done to help make them more easily integrated into people's lives.
...
My resonse to your last post:
"It all comes down to what I call "The Big Deal" effect.
Some times events and experiences of a persons life put the person in a position that is overwhelming in it's intensity. Overwhelmed with what is thought as new knowledge, a new story, a new revelation. These things being percieved as incredibly important that they be conveyed to others."
When a person experiences the extraordinary it tends to intensify that persons state of alertness and vigilance, an exhausting state for sure.
It is only after the person can comfortably co-exist with his "knowledge" that he can get on with his life etc etc.....
This is in some ways the natue of "culture shock" the big deal effect causing some rather disturbing symptomology.
Humanity has been attempting to cope with the concepts of extraterrrestial life for some time, many movies and documentaries have been written, and yet the "big deal effect" remains a serious problem.
From what I understand it's mostlly due to not really knowing the answer and the speculation drives the intensity.
Once it is known in full that ET's exist and that we are going to interact with them then this "Big deal effect" will dissappear.
In some ways the "aliens" you talk of are only generating a problem by keeping us ignorant and maintaining a high speculative position for humanity.
Once the ignorance is removed the whole picture is clear and rational but at the moment it only serves to fester irrationality due to this intense speculation as to the validity of ET's existence.
Do you see my point Jocariah? The Alien is only exasperating the situation by maintining an unknowable position. ( from our perspective)
I ask why would the aliens exasperate the problem by their secrecy?
"It all comes down to what I call "The Big Deal" effect.
Some times events and experiences of a persons life put the person in a position that is overwhelming in it's intensity. Overwhelmed with what is thought as new knowledge, a new story, a new revelation. These things being percieved as incredibly important that they be conveyed to others."
When a person experiences the extraordinary it tends to intensify that persons state of alertness and vigilance, an exhausting state for sure.
It is only after the person can comfortably co-exist with his "knowledge" that he can get on with his life etc etc.....
This is in some ways the natue of "culture shock" the big deal effect causing some rather disturbing symptomology.
Humanity has been attempting to cope with the concepts of extraterrrestial life for some time, many movies and documentaries have been written, and yet the "big deal effect" remains a serious problem.
From what I understand it's mostlly due to not really knowing the answer and the speculation drives the intensity.
Once it is known in full that ET's exist and that we are going to interact with them then this "Big deal effect" will dissappear.
In some ways the "aliens" you talk of are only generating a problem by keeping us ignorant and maintaining a high speculative position for humanity.
Once the ignorance is removed the whole picture is clear and rational but at the moment it only serves to fester irrationality due to this intense speculation as to the validity of ET's existence.
Do you see my point Jocariah? The Alien is only exasperating the situation by maintining an unknowable position. ( from our perspective)
I ask why would the aliens exasperate the problem by their secrecy?
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Hello QQ,
I see your point.
But in your scenario, you’d create a larger problem by solving a smaller one. What happens to their underlying belief system, or worldview once they realize that aliens really do exist?
You’ve created a ‘radical shift’.
Solve the ‘big deal effect’ (as it pertains to the existence of aliens) by showing everyone that aliens indeed exist (in an irrefutable – undeniable - way), and you exacerbate another problem. You now have a world whose underlying belief systems (their god or gods) no longer apply. To them, suddenly god doesn’t exist – just creatures of a higher order (e.g., aliens). Or worse yet – this is really ‘Satan’s’ doing, and all of us are doomed, cursed – it’s the end of time. Now six billion people are thinking, “what will the aliens do to us – who do we serve now – who do we worship – who do we pray to – what is happening to us? Are these our new gods? The rug has been pulled out from under them – destabilization, to the human psyche, in the extreme.
QQ, what have you done to the humans…?
You’ve proven that aliens exist, and at the same time destroyed a religious paradigm established and nurtured over the millennia. You’ve destroyed this fragile balance that exists.
The impact of this upon the human psyche cannot be overstated - I’ve been dealing with this all of my life (all of my life – not just all of my adult life) and it is still at times overwhelming, overpowering and an assault to my system.
Let me suggest an alternative, if I may. By introducing the concept (idea or ‘possibility’) of the existence of aliens gradually (over time - over generations) so that it (the idea) can co-exit with, and at the same time (simultaneously) alongside the god paradigm, all the while integrating it slowly into their (the world’s) underlying belief systems (or worldview), you accomplish the same objective, but over a much broader period of time - at a slower pace, with some people leading the charge, and others following in tow. But, nevertheless, the majority (or whole) of the general populace, arriving at the point desired.
So that the whole of the populace, the earth’s entire population, is raised (enlightened) in an orderly fashion, over time - gradually. Thereby avoiding a radical shift, a destabilizing construct.
It is good to note; all parties present (alien species – beings of a higher order, and the like), have a vested interest in maintaining the earth, its stability and her inhabitants. They are here because the earth’s inhabitants provide them with a resource of some sort. Their edict - “never do anything to destabilize the general populace in any way”.
Don’t knock over the applecart QQ, … please.
Cheers
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I see your point.
But in your scenario, you’d create a larger problem by solving a smaller one. What happens to their underlying belief system, or worldview once they realize that aliens really do exist?
You’ve created a ‘radical shift’.
Solve the ‘big deal effect’ (as it pertains to the existence of aliens) by showing everyone that aliens indeed exist (in an irrefutable – undeniable - way), and you exacerbate another problem. You now have a world whose underlying belief systems (their god or gods) no longer apply. To them, suddenly god doesn’t exist – just creatures of a higher order (e.g., aliens). Or worse yet – this is really ‘Satan’s’ doing, and all of us are doomed, cursed – it’s the end of time. Now six billion people are thinking, “what will the aliens do to us – who do we serve now – who do we worship – who do we pray to – what is happening to us? Are these our new gods? The rug has been pulled out from under them – destabilization, to the human psyche, in the extreme.
QQ, what have you done to the humans…?
You’ve proven that aliens exist, and at the same time destroyed a religious paradigm established and nurtured over the millennia. You’ve destroyed this fragile balance that exists.
The impact of this upon the human psyche cannot be overstated - I’ve been dealing with this all of my life (all of my life – not just all of my adult life) and it is still at times overwhelming, overpowering and an assault to my system.
Let me suggest an alternative, if I may. By introducing the concept (idea or ‘possibility’) of the existence of aliens gradually (over time - over generations) so that it (the idea) can co-exit with, and at the same time (simultaneously) alongside the god paradigm, all the while integrating it slowly into their (the world’s) underlying belief systems (or worldview), you accomplish the same objective, but over a much broader period of time - at a slower pace, with some people leading the charge, and others following in tow. But, nevertheless, the majority (or whole) of the general populace, arriving at the point desired.
So that the whole of the populace, the earth’s entire population, is raised (enlightened) in an orderly fashion, over time - gradually. Thereby avoiding a radical shift, a destabilizing construct.
It is good to note; all parties present (alien species – beings of a higher order, and the like), have a vested interest in maintaining the earth, its stability and her inhabitants. They are here because the earth’s inhabitants provide them with a resource of some sort. Their edict - “never do anything to destabilize the general populace in any way”.
Don’t knock over the applecart QQ, … please.
Cheers
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You see it is not by accident that they exist (exhibit their existence) on the periphery of our collective psyche, within tabloids, New Age doctrines, societies fringe, if you will - but rather by design.
There is a plan afoot, howbeit unbeknownst to us.
The phenomenon, presented or portrayed in this way, gives us something to seek out – something to attempt to discern. It establishes a ‘possibility’, without destroying ‘our’ present reality.
It is brilliant really. Brilliant in design, and subtle in its execution – existing as it does, just under our collective radar, just out of our direct line of sight.
Bravo!
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There is a plan afoot, howbeit unbeknownst to us.
The phenomenon, presented or portrayed in this way, gives us something to seek out – something to attempt to discern. It establishes a ‘possibility’, without destroying ‘our’ present reality.
It is brilliant really. Brilliant in design, and subtle in its execution – existing as it does, just under our collective radar, just out of our direct line of sight.
Bravo!
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Truth be told, I am more of their culture – than I am of yours.
And this is as it should be. I know who I am now; externalizing like this has shown me that. I think like they think – not as you think. I don’t really understand you.
We should all know our place.
“never do anything to destabilize the general populace in any way”.... is my edict as well.
Cheers
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Truth be told, I am more of their culture – than I am of yours.
And this is as it should be. I know who I am now; externalizing like this has shown me that. I think like they think – not as you think. I don’t really understand you.
We should all know our place.
“never do anything to destabilize the general populace in any way”.... is my edict as well.
Cheers
....
I am sorry but I do not agree with your assessment.
I see many flaws in the contention that ignorance is a virtue.
I think also that the Aliens are seriously underestimating human adaptability and resilience.
Maybe they have yet to learn that it is the "teasing" of knowledge that creates the problem.
That the human imagination will always attempt to fill in the gaps in knowledge leading to paranoia and speculation.
If you are going to be masterful in your implimentation you would recognise that to place the world in a state of brinkmanship is a very counter productive method.
Better to be absolutely discrete or absolutely open....than to be neither.
I see many flaws in the contention that ignorance is a virtue.
I think also that the Aliens are seriously underestimating human adaptability and resilience.
Maybe they have yet to learn that it is the "teasing" of knowledge that creates the problem.
That the human imagination will always attempt to fill in the gaps in knowledge leading to paranoia and speculation.
If you are going to be masterful in your implimentation you would recognise that to place the world in a state of brinkmanship is a very counter productive method.
Better to be absolutely discrete or absolutely open....than to be neither.
For example,
wouldn't a more productive method be to transmit an ongoing Television signal from let's say one of Jupitor's moons that informs the Earth of their existence in an ongoing fashion, so that no doubt exists thus removing the speculation.
A continual TV (that all Tv's can recieve, free to air)...signal with out any further action...just information.....
Over a period of about 6 months humans would adapt to this knowledge very well I would think.
Why go about it in a way that implies a threat to our freedom? And then broadcast it via this method, ( using you jocariah ) if not to actually destabilise rather than prevent instability.?
And if it's genetic evolution they want then why not do both simultaneously?
Why not inform us using conventional methods? And allow us to adapt to the reality of them over time?
wouldn't a more productive method be to transmit an ongoing Television signal from let's say one of Jupitor's moons that informs the Earth of their existence in an ongoing fashion, so that no doubt exists thus removing the speculation.
A continual TV (that all Tv's can recieve, free to air)...signal with out any further action...just information.....
Over a period of about 6 months humans would adapt to this knowledge very well I would think.
Why go about it in a way that implies a threat to our freedom? And then broadcast it via this method, ( using you jocariah ) if not to actually destabilise rather than prevent instability.?
And if it's genetic evolution they want then why not do both simultaneously?
Why not inform us using conventional methods? And allow us to adapt to the reality of them over time?
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scenario:
01/01/2005.....new years eve.
Live picture of Jupitor and moons and ambience transmitted to all TV sets that cab recieve at the time.
Live broadcast continues with out interruption and is not subject to governmental filtering. Only possible explanation is ET.
01/02/2005
Live footage includes some sort of alien artifact. Live footage continues of Jupitors ambience. Only possible explanation ET
02/03/2005
etc etc etc
I think you get my drift.
Why not?
01/01/2005.....new years eve.
Live picture of Jupitor and moons and ambience transmitted to all TV sets that cab recieve at the time.
Live broadcast continues with out interruption and is not subject to governmental filtering. Only possible explanation is ET.
01/02/2005
Live footage includes some sort of alien artifact. Live footage continues of Jupitors ambience. Only possible explanation ET
02/03/2005
etc etc etc
I think you get my drift.
Why not?