Questions for the religous

[(Q)]

So... this is your explanation as to HOW you KNOW Jesus never existed?

The answer I gave is far more credible and valid an answer than any theist making the claim he did exist.

 

[(Q)]

He is a merciful God and vengeance is his at the end.There Will Be Blood. So look to Him.

Will the vengeance and blood be merciful?

 

[scifes]

That's what I'm saying: a book isn't proof for the existence of gods.

why not?

 

[Oli]

Are four books proof of the existence of Hobbits?
Do the three films add to that proof?

 

[scifes]

Are four books proof of the existence of Hobbits?
Do the three films add to that proof?

no because the author says it's all fiction..

but if you say that the quran is the same but mohammed pbuh didn't say (he was lying)

then also the answer is obvious:

the four books in no way provided any proof of hobbits.

the quran is full of proof of the truth of what the prophet says...

 

[Norsefire]

OK, so if I write a book about LOTR, and say it' snon fiction, it's real! Yippee, I didn't know it was that simple.

Also the Qu'ran is not full of proof. It's full of claims that lack evidence, as well as testimony...which simply isn't enough. Nothing in the Qu'ran can be demonstrated.

 

[scifes]

fair enough..

when i see a billion and a half people believing LOTR is true, and it bothers me much..

i can't do anything about it...

but:

OK, so if I write a book about LOTR, and say it' snon fiction, it's real! Yippee, I didn't know it was that simple.

i'll go to your book, come up with a billion and one flaws in it, show what joke it's proofs are, then.

your "group" or belief will fall, because it is leaning on and is based off that book..

Also the Qu'ran is not full of proof. It's full of claims that lack evidence, as well as testimony...which simply isn't enough. Nothing in the Qu'ran can be demonstrated.

be my guest.
there's always a first time for everything..

 

[Norsefire]

But how would the Koran be any better than the proposed book?

 

[scifes]

oh and BTW, i might not bother much with the LOTR club if it isn't that serious, but if they claim they have predicted the existence of mythical worlds dangerous to humanity and earth and claim to have a cure and remedy to such life threatening world changing problem..and many people actually believe them and are following everything they say..

then i think that'll definitely make me care enough to check it out..

 

[spidergoat]

The Quran isn't even proof of what Mohammed said, it was compiled from many sources long after his death, and there are several versions.

 

[scifes]

But how would the Koran be any better than the proposed book?

what's the proposed book?

 

[scifes]

The Quran isn't even proof of what Mohammed said, it was compiled from many sources long after his death, and there are several versions.

mm, now you're talking deep..

do you have the full picture or is this a leaf out of the "methods to shut muslims" book?

but i'm trying to see what difference it would make if what you said is true or not...how would it affect the proof in the quran, and i find it irrelative, no?

 

[Norsefire]

what's the proposed book?

The hypothetical LOTR book that would be presented as undeniable fact...y'know, kind of like the Holy texts.

 

[scifes]

The hypothetical LOTR book that would be presented as undeniable fact...y'know, kind of like the Holy texts.

but that's my point since my first post..

a book is a trunk..

a trunk could contain rotten eggs..

a trunk can contain uranium..

the choice of a book as a miracle shell makes it easier to spread around, transfer from generation to generation, and just flat out simply easier to read..it's a book..any other form of miracle can be observed, diagnosed, analyzed, researched, and have everything needed done to it...then what? you put it all in a book, right?

other miracles get lost because the original thing is lost, other things die with time, other miracles can be seen in many ways.. a book is a book..

saying it isn't amazing because it's just a book is, well.. idk..

 

[Norsefire]

I'm not saying it isn't amazing, I'm saying it isn't verifiable. How can we verify that everything that happened in the Koran actually happened?

 

[scifes]

I'm not saying it isn't amazing, I'm saying it isn't verifiable. How can we verify that everything that happened in the Koran actually happened?

you're saying that because you're assuming it has all happennED..

there are things that are happening,

things that were to-happen and now they have happenned..

things that aren't happenable..

oh man, just read the damn book before asking any more questions..

or be more precise with questions which upon verification make you reach a definite decision or result..

 

[Norsefire]

I have read the book. The claims it makes, the "miracles", cannot be verified. Are you a theist, scifes?

 

[spidergoat]

you're saying that because you're assuming it has all happennED..

there are things that are happening,

things that were to-happen and now they have happenned..

things that aren't happenable..

oh man, just read the damn book before asking any more questions..

or be more precise with questions which upon verification make you reach a definite decision or result..

The hypotheses generated by the Quran are not scientific. It may say something like, if you pray, good things will happen to you. That doesn't prove that prayer works, since good things and bad things happen to people who pray and people who don't pray. None of the statements in it predict things to happen that couldn't otherwise happen through purely naturalistic means. Many of the statements are scientifically incorrect, and only through the broadest creative interpretation do they relate to revealed scientific facts.

 

[scifes]

I have read the book. The claims it makes, the "miracles", cannot be verified. Are you a theist, scifes?

yes

The hypotheses generated by the Quran are not scientific.

:m:

It may say something like, if you pray, good things will happen to you. That doesn't prove that prayer works, since good things and bad things happen to people who pray and people who don't pray.

so it's just what a person tells himself?

i understand what you're saying but it's more complicated than that..

None of the statements in it predict things to happen that couldn't otherwise happen through purely naturalistic means.

such as?

and you're wrong because they could happen in a way contradicting the other way..

i like this example..and it's real..

a crazy guy told his wife who's on the stairs..if you go up you're divorced, if you go down you're divorced, and if you stand still you're divorced..
.
.
she jumped off the stairs.

besides, islamic predictions not only are way way more precise and accurate to be easily fulfilled naturally, but they actually conflict with nature..

in the time of the camel and mud house, the prophet predicted metal will talk someday..opposed to nature then..unfathomable..

he predicted who the names of many of the men who conqured many empires and many other details..very very precise details..to certain people doing certain things..
he predicted that the bedwins will be racing off in building hight..not in camels or gold..quite a far sight, don't you agree..

and here's something to chew on..he psaid the peninsula will return as it once was rivers and meadows..

remember that at that time..these were proof of his lies..
Many of the statements are scientifically incorrect, and only through the broadest creative interpretation do they relate to revealed scientific facts.


and what you said(what i quoted) means you know all his miracles and that all of them can be fulfilled naturally..
easy to prove wrong.

 

[WillNever]

I was raised catholic. I went to catholic school in my childhood. My mom converted to a catholic at the urging of a friend, who is my godmother. Originally she was methodist. My father was raised lutheran.

My mom stopped believing in a god. I never truly believed in one. And I don't think my dad cared.