Q's for christians

[Xev]

Comparison:

I was born into a family of converted-to-Catholicism Jews, whom mum ignored, having rejected Catholicism too. Dad's family is athiest and he would have thrown a fit if my mother had ever tried to indoctrinate me into Xtianity.

Dad's other kids are both athiests.

I'd be interested in the family backgrounds of our other athiests and our agnostics. I suspect religion has much to do with childhood inculcation. (Like, no duh)

 

[inspector]

"It is that judgmental evangelical nature that makes the whole of Christianity so repugnant."
--------------------


No. It is the obligation to acknowledge, honor and bow down before someone greater than oneself that non-believers find so repugnant. It is the personal responsibility to follow a moral set of guidelines and to set aside pride and arrogance that non-believers find so repugnant. It is the lack of narcissistic, tangible rewards of Christianity that non-believers find so repugnant.





"The voice of the preacher and the snake oil salesman."
--------------------


Nope, just the Truth from a historically/archaeologically consistent and textually accurate historical document.





"Thank God that there is no heaven."
---------------------


No. Thank YOU for your opinion, which, much to the chagrin of non-believers, is all atheism has to offer.

><>

 

[Empty Dragon]

Xev:
I never really saw my family much I was usualy watched and cared for by the family dog. My father believes to be religous is a weakness. My mother was raised roman catholic but for a long time never bothered. I was brought to church for wedding and my mother had me baptised but other then that, I was left to make up my own mind. I was never really around any one but animals when I was younger so know one tried to tell me if or if there wasn't a god.

So I guess I was more or less agnostic my whole life.

 

[Cris]

Inspector,

It is the obligation to acknowledge, honor and bow down before someone greater than oneself that non-believers find so repugnant.

This is true since no one has ever shown that such a superior being exists or has ever existed.

It is the personal responsibility to follow a moral set of guidelines and to set aside pride and arrogance that non-believers find so repugnant.

Not quite. Many non-believers do take personal responsibility and follow a strong rational moral code. However the same cannot be said of Christians who do not take personal responsibility for their morality but turn to the authoritarian morality of an ancient book, whether it is correct or not.

It is the lack of narcissistic, tangible rewards of Christianity that non-believers find so repugnant.

There are no tangible rewards offered by Christianity that cannot be equally obtained through non-religious philosophy. Except perhaps the false hope that there is anything beyond death, and the joy of living a delusional life.

Nope, just the Truth from a historically/archaeologically consistent and textually accurate historical document.

Dream on.

Thank YOU for your opinion, which, much to the chagrin of non-believers, is all atheism has to offer.

Opinions that I am sure most non-believers share and which I am sure are preferable to the fantasy assertions offered by religion.

 

[Raithere]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
But scientists and you still don't know what is life and cannot comprehend how it works.

No; science, and I, have a pretty good idea of what life is and a very good idea of how it works. All the minute details are not yet known and it's inception is quite hazy, being as it occurred billions of years ago but we have a pretty firm handle on what it is and how it works.

And since God is Life itself and He is everywhere, you can feel Him everywhere, as the universe was alive...

Well I don't feel him or see him anywhere. And science has been unable to locate him or any affect that must be attributed to him. Nor have I seen any arguments for which I do not see serious problems or presumptions in their premeses. What I do see is a wondrously complex and interrelated set of forces that happen to make our existence possible... but I see nothing that indicates that it is the creation of a supernatural entity and definitely nothing that suggests that said entity is perfect.

So how do you picture finding God...?

Honestly, I don't anymore. But I was looking for some argument, some inexplicable effect... some knowledge or wisdom that was beyond the ken of man. I have seen nothing of the sort.

Ahh... and does science hold the answers to the questions you have...!?!?

Many of them, yes. Philosophy and logic hold others. The rest are lodged in the human psyche. Much of the truth of religion, I believe, is really just an examination of our selves.

~Raithere

 

[matnay]

Truthseeker wrote:
Ahh... and does science hold the answers to the questions you have...!?!?

Science does not have the answer to every question we have, because science grounds itself by striving to get the right answers. Religion on the other hand has plenty of precise answers, but does not shoot for accuracy.

 

[Raithere]

Originally posted by inspector
In your quest to divorce yourself from conventional labeling

I am unconcerned about labeling, I see no reason to marry or divorce myself from any particular label, I am simply trying to be honest. Categories are false constructs... models, if you will. They help us to understand the world but the world is beyond them.

you cannot elude the label of sinner, as nobody can.........and the only path to redemption is through faith in Jesus, not astrology or scientism.

I am also unconcerned about hell and redemption. I have been honest with myself, other people, the Universe, and God if he does exist. I care nothing about judgment for I would not accept judgment. Any God that would punish me for my honest and earnest effort to understand this existence and to be a "good" person is, quite frankly, beneath my contempt and not worthy of my respect or reverence. So, if he is out there, I will quite happily greet him... I have many questions for him and I'd like to thank him for my life. If he chooses to roast me in hell, so be it. I'll bring the marshmallows and hot-dogs. But I will not be yoked by tyranny and fear.

BTW, astrology IMO is pure bunk and scientism does not really describe me.

I want you in Heaven, Raithere, so we can debate other, less important things, such as why the gates are 'pearly' or why angels have 'halos'.

Indeed. And more important things as well as we would have some of these worldly conundrums worked out by then.

God's speed to you and yours in the new year.

To you and yours, as well.

~Raithere

 

[adj]

Well, "Inspector", it seems you are too blind to actually have inspected anything, particularly religion; how can you have the arrogance to say that Jesus is the only way? What about all of the children, past, present and future that will never hear about your "glorious" conception? Huh ??????

 

[TruthSeeker]

Raithere,

No; science, and I, have a pretty good idea of what life is and a very good idea of how it works. All the minute details are not yet known and it's inception is quite hazy, being as it occurred billions of years ago but we have a pretty firm handle on what it is and how it works.

hehe...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Well I don't feel him or see him anywhere. And science has been unable to locate him or any affect that must be attributed to him. Nor have I seen any arguments for which I do not see serious problems or presumptions in their premeses. What I do see is a wondrously complex and interrelated set of forces that happen to make our existence possible... but I see nothing that indicates that it is the creation of a supernatural entity and definitely nothing that suggests that said entity is perfect.

Do you want to see God? Or to feel Him? The unity is the relationship you experience with Him. He is there, in the unity. Science cannot "locate" (as if God would be somewhere, in specific...:bugeye: ) someone that is not physical.

Honestly, I don't anymore. But I was looking for some argument, some inexplicable effect... some knowledge or wisdom that was beyond the ken of man. I have seen nothing of the sort.

I have seen that hundreds of times...

Many of them, yes. Philosophy and logic hold others. The rest are lodged in the human psyche. Much of the truth of religion, I believe, is really just an examination of our selves.

Science, philosophy and others don't have the answers for the most important questions, like "What is the meaning of life"?

 

[TruthSeeker]

adj,

Well, "Inspector", it seems you are too blind to actually have inspected anything, particularly religion; how can you have the arrogance to say that Jesus is the only way? What about all of the children, past, present and future that will never hear about your "glorious" conception? Huh ??????

The kind of Love Jesus had is the only way, not him. I guess that is always misunderstood...

 

[adj]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
adj,



The kind of Love Jesus had is the only way, not him. I guess that is always misunderstood...

OK; what I have observed, read about, and understand is that Jesus is not the only way to the truth (not the truth you may believe in now), there are/have been many other "paths". What Jesus taught was two fold (just as many religions/churches have two teachings, one for the common person, subscriber, and one for the insiders, or initiates) -- he was trying to teach the law of three (trinity) to those who were "insiders" and a way of practical living a good life for the others. Mentioning three, this is the season: why three wise men? and what "gifts" did they provide Jesus? just to stimulate some thought . . . .
Merry Christmas!

 

[Raithere]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

What a scintillating retort. Do you have an actual response or have you been sucking nitrous? :bugeye:

Do you want to see God? Or to feel Him?

If he existed, certainly.

The unity is the relationship you experience with Him. He is there, in the unity.

No the unity derives from that fact that we are not, in fact, separate. We are intimately connected with everything else. The perception that the Universe is composed of discrete entities is an illusion. It is this fact, subconsciously realized, that I believe gave rise to the notion of an omnipresent God. But the philosophy of western theism stagnated and corrupted before they found the deeper truth. Eastern "religious" philosophies come much closer to it.

Science cannot "locate" (as if God would be somewhere, in specific...) someone that is not physical.

Or perhaps God simply does not exist... this would also account for us not being able to "locate" it.

I have seen that hundreds of times...

Care to provide any examples?

Science, philosophy and others don't have the answers for the most important questions, like "What is the meaning of life"?

Yes, my friend, they do. The problem you're having is that your question is too vague. First you need to explore the question to discover what the words "meaning" and "life" are.

~Raithere

 

[TruthSeeker]

adj,

why three wise men? and what "gifts" did they provide Jesus? just to stimulate some thought . . . .

I dunno... what do ya think?
Merry Christmas


Raithere,

What a scintillating retort. Do you have an actual response or have you been sucking nitrous?

Hopw do you feel life? How does life work? What is conscience? How does it work? What IS life?....

If he existed, certainly.

God is Love.

No the unity derives from that fact that we are not, in fact, separate. We are intimately connected with everything else. The perception that the Universe is composed of discrete entities is an illusion. It is this fact, subconsciously realized, that I believe gave rise to the notion of an omnipresent God. But the philosophy of western theism stagnated and corrupted before they found the deeper truth. Eastern "religious" philosophies come much closer to it.

God is Love.

Or perhaps God simply does not exist... this would also account for us not being able to "locate" it.

God is Love.

Care to provide any examples?

The things He taught me about Love...

Yes, my friend, they do. The problem you're having is that your question is too vague. First you need to explore the question to discover what the words "meaning" and "life" are.

Then what is the meaning of life?

 

[adj]

the three wise men? allegory to three different "schools" or training that Jesus "attended" during the missing years, the formatory years of his life (and you thought he was born with his "wisdom"!)
meaning of life? how about what all life does -- consumes other life then ultimately dies, becoming food for another life(s) . . .

 

[TruthSeeker]

adj,

the three wise men? allegory to three different "schools" or training that Jesus "attended" during the missing years, the formatory years of his life (and you thought he was born with his "wisdom"!)

No. I never though he born with wisdom. Anyone does. He studied a lot before becoming what he became. He went through all that we are going, too.

meaning of life? how about what all life does -- consumes other life then ultimately dies, becoming food for another life(s) . .

There is more for life then eating and die...

 

[Cris]

truthseeker,

Science cannot "locate" (as if God would be somewhere, in specific... ) someone that is not physical.

OK so God is not physical.

The unity is the relationship you experience with Him. He is there, in the unity.

A human experience is physical. You stated that God is not physical. It is therefore impossible for the claimed unity of experience to take place unless God is physical.

Or are you saying that God becomes physical sometimes so that we might experience him? But if that were true then science is perfectly capable to locating anything physical, which of course refutes your statement that science cannot locate God.

The simpler explanation is that there is no god and it is only your own furtive imagination that labels your self-induced emotional experiences as being derived from a god.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Cris,

A human experience is physical. You stated that God is not physical. It is therefore impossible for the claimed unity of experience to take place unless God is physical.

You assume that everything is not physical. You assume that it is impossible to feel something that is not physical. What you don't know is that the very core of your being is not physical and that is exactly the only part that can experience God. Since your conscience has absolutly no awareness of this part of yourself, you assume that it doesn't exist.

The simpler explanation is that there is no god and it is only your own furtive imagination that labels your self-induced emotional experiences as being derived from a god.

You, atheists... always looking for to the easiest answer...

 

[Cris]

truthseeker,

You assume that everything is not physical.

I think you mean ‘is physical’ right?

You assume that it is impossible to feel something that is not physical.

Well yes because our entire biological sensory, nervous, and neural systems, are all physical. There is no precedent for anything that is not physical. It is not reasonable to assume that there is anything non-physical about a human. This does not mean that there isn’t something that is non-physical but nothing non-physical has ever been detected and by its very definition is undetectable, and more importantly there is no reason to suspect there is something non-physical.

What you don't know is that the very core of your being is not physical and that is exactly the only part that can experience God.

That is true, I don’t know that and neither do you. There is no evidence that supports such a concept. This is just a fantasy.

Since your conscience has absolutly no awareness of this part of yourself, you assume that it doesn't exist.

If it cannot be consciously experienced, and cannot be detected, then it is indistinguishable from something that does not exist. Unless you can show it is more than a fantasy then it is reasonable to assume it does not exist along with all the other vast quantity of fantasy ideas about things that do not exist.

You, atheists... always looking for to the easiest answer...

This is consistent with science that has repeatedly shown that the simpler explanation for a phenomenon tends to be the truth. This is otherwise known as Occam’s Razor

http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/OCCAMRAZ.html

 

[TruthSeeker]

Cris,

I think you mean ?s physical?right?

Oops... yeah I did...

Well yes because our entire biological sensory, nervous, and neural systems, are all physical. There is no precedent for anything that is not physical. It is not reasonable to assume that there is anything non-physical about a human. This does not mean that there isn? something that is non-physical but nothing non-physical has ever been detected and by its very definition is undetectable, and more importantly there is no reason to suspect there is something non-physical.

Non-physical "things" are not necessarily undetectable. I would say it is just a matter of frequency, like radio, for example. It depends just on how you look at it...

That is true, I don? know that and neither do you. There is no evidence that supports such a concept. This is just a fantasy.

If it cannot be consciously experienced, and cannot be detected, then it is indistinguishable from something that does not exist. Unless you can show it is more than a fantasy then it is reasonable to assume it does not exist along with all the other vast quantity of fantasy ideas about things that do not exist.

Those are not fantasies. If you tell a man that born blind how the world really is, he will probably tell you that you are nuts, cause he sees nothing (if all that he know is).

Here is a little parable for you...
Imagine that everyone in the world would be blind. They would born well, but later they would become blind like everyone else. One day, one of them open his eyes and realizes that anyone is blind, they just have their eyes closed. He tries to tell the others what he sees, but anyone believes in him. Anyone remembers how the world really is, cause they are used to be with their eyes closed.

Here's what is going on. I have my eyes opened and I try to tell you that there IS a God. But you kinda forgot that since your conscience kicked in and you started to become like everyone else. Your family drove you to be who you are. You are the way you are because of your experiences in your childhood. You closed your eyes because everyone had their eyes closed - your world become their world.

This is consistent with science that has repeatedly shown that the simpler explanation for a phenomenon tends to be the truth. This is otherwise known as Occam? Razor

What I was saying is that you are just not thinking about it. Imagine with Einstein wouldn't care about thinking of Newton's Theories. He wouldn't get all his ideas, would he. Besides that, what is simple in Einstein's ideas? What is simple about Quantum Physics? What is simple about String Theory!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

 

[whatsupyall]

Originally posted by Xelios
Actually there is tons of evidence for Shakespeare, mainly in the form of books he wrote a couple centuries ago.

How do I know it wasnt Waldo who wrote it? they just lied and said it was this character named "shakespeare"....How would I know they are telling the truth?

Originally posted by Xelios

There is also evidence of black holes in the form of x and gamma rays, mass displacement, gravimetric effects on surrounding bodies and Hawking radiation given off by each black hole.

I havent seen that, billions of other havent,ACCORDING TO YOU therefore its a myth...How do I know its really true? Unless I touch and see blackhole I will not believe..Who has seen the blaCKHOLE? it doesnt exist..

Originally posted by Xelios

Theories also have evidence, if they didn't they would not be theories. Hypothesies have no evidence. Theories have enough evidence to make them logical and reasonable, but they don't yet have enough evidence to be called facts. Try again.

So Godis a fact to bllions of others because they experienced him...and he is a theory to you kids who havent experienced him, but he have evidence to support his existence...So to you God is a theory, as much evidence presented as evolution.....