Q's for christians

[TruthSeeker]

Kenresus,

He said:

I became a christian when my ego crashed and began to realize there is more than just me.

...and he continued...

Suddenly realizing I was not as perfect as an ego would lead to believe, I began to realise nobody is perfect.

You interpret the first quote as a problem. But the thing is that he had no problem whatsoever. His realization came when he humbled himself. Most atheists are very proud. It is very easy to see and atheist's pride. This guy humbled himself and found God.

 

[Raithere]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
I'm not in either one of those... how can you explain me Raithere?

Besides that, Gino hadn't a crisis, he had a realization.

If you'll take another look you'll notice that I used the modifier "mostly" not "all". I wasn't attempting to define every Christian but noticing a trend, as I said. And while I may be wrong about Gino, an "ego crash" sure sounds to me like a psychological crisis, although we'd need Gino to verify what exactly he meant.

You'll also notice that I made no judgment upon my observation at all. I find it interesting that you take my comment as some sort of denunciation. It was merely an observation. Why so defensive?

Originally posted by Neville:
I disagree with you too Raithere. A personal low did not make me see. I saw when i looked and i started looking as i came out of my low. In fact i started coming out of my low when i put my trust in God and he led me out of 'the valley of darkness'. So i did not survive a 'psychological crisis' because of God. I had been there for a while but it was God who actually helped me out.

Sure sounds to me like you are saying that you were depressed and God/religion helped you out of it. Depression would be a psychological crisis.



As far as the trend goes, let's take a look:

Youngwriter: I was born from Catholic parents.

platzapS: I've been born into a Christian family.

Davearchy: Born into a Christian family

whatsupyall: I was born from Catholic parents.

Truthseeker: I haven't born in a Christian family.

CounslerCoffee: Not a christian really, just a believer. I became a theist because I think that there is more to life then what you can see, touch, and feel.

Gino: I became a christian when my ego crashed and began to realize there is more than just

Neville: In fact i started coming out of my low when i put my trust in God and he led me out of 'the valley of darkness'. So i did not survive a 'psychological crisis' because of God. I had been there for a while but it was God who actually helped me out.


I take this to be 4 "raised from childhood", 2 "psychological crisis's", and 2 "other" although Counsler says he's not a Christian so that's only 1 "other". This also seems to fit with what I've observed in my personal life.

~Raithere

(edited for formatting)

 

[Adam]

For the comparisons and all: I was born into a family entirely without religion, I do not follow any particular religion, and I doubt very much than any god or gods exist, although I admit I can not prove that so it remains a remote possibility. I just find it very unlikely.

 

[whatsupyall]

Originally posted by Cris
inspector,

Until you can show some credible evidence for your claims then the stories of Christianity remain indistinguishable from mythology. Nothing you have stated so far has been convincing.

there aare tons of evidence, but you always lie and say "there is no evidence"...They may not be impressive to you. but what is? NOTHING IS IMPRESSIVE TO YOU...Prove to me shakespeare exist, and napoleon, you cant! Evidence presented for them isnt also valid to you..ARE THEY?
Again shakespeare, jesus, queen elizabeth are myths according to your SUPER STUPIDITY, I cannot even measure how stupid you are...

Originally posted by Cris

I base my conclusion on the efforts of scholars who have studied the subject in far greater detail than I have been capable..

There are many many scholars who are believers of God and have studied the history and subject in great detail, but the fact here is, YOU ALWAYS LISTEN TO ATHEISTS HISTORIANS OR SCIENTIST, LOOK AT THE WEBPAGES YOU SENT, THEY ARE "SKEPTICS.COM" ATHEISTS.COM" WHATS NEXT? "LETSBESTUPID.COM"?


There is little to fear since there is no credible evidence for the existence of –

1. Shakespeare.
2. Blackhole.
3. Theories.

All you have is unsubstantiated hearsay. You have no current day credible demonstrable evidence that these three items exist and are active.

RIGHT BACK AT YOU...TRYING TO MAKE TEENS AN ATHEISTS WHO ARE YET TO LEARN THINGS? YOU WILL PAY LATER IN LIFE, YOU'LL SEE.....

"It is better for a man to have a millstone tied around his neck and be thrown to a river to drown, than to lead astray my little ones"...- Jesus Christ.......

 

[Xelios]

There is little to fear since there is no credible evidence for the existence of –

1. Shakespeare.
2. Blackhole.
3. Theories.

Actually there is tons of evidence for Shakespeare, mainly in the form of books he wrote a couple centuries ago. There is also evidence of black holes in the form of x and gamma rays, mass displacement, gravimetric effects on surrounding bodies and Hawking radiation given off by each black hole. Theories also have evidence, if they didn't they would not be theories. Hypothesies have no evidence. Theories have enough evidence to make them logical and reasonable, but they don't yet have enough evidence to be called facts. Try again.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Raithere,

If you'll take another look you'll notice that I used the modifier "mostly" not "all". I wasn't attempting to define every Christian but noticing a trend, as I said. And while I may be wrong about Gino, an "ego crash" sure sounds to me like a psychological crisis, although we'd need Gino to verify what exactly he meant.

I know what he mean... I had some too... :bugeye:

You'll also notice that I made no judgment upon my observation at all. I find it interesting that you take my comment as some sort of denunciation. It was merely an observation. Why so defensive?

Denunciation? Defensive? What are ya talking about?
That was an obeservation, as well...

 

[Cris]

whatsup,

there aare tons of evidence, but you always lie and say "there is no evidence"...They may not be impressive to you. but what is? NOTHING IS IMPRESSIVE TO YOU.

We’ve been here before, so let’s try a different approach that doesn’t require any type of historical evidence.

You say that God is alive today, and that Jesus exists right now, and that people have souls. What experiments, tests, or otherwise can you tell me that I can use to check that all three of these items exist now?

Please be very specific and precise.

 

[tony1]

*Originally posted by Xelios
Theories have enough evidence to make them logical and reasonable, but they don't yet have enough evidence to be called facts. *

IOW, everything you believe is not based on fact.
Hmmm, I thought that was what you were accusing us of doing.

 

[Adam]

Tony1

Theory is based on previously established facts. And those previously established facts show us that the scientific method of developing theories based on previously established facts actually works. It is a continuous process, discover new facts, develop new theories, let new facts harden or discard theories, discover new facts, develop new theories...

 

[Neville]

Posted By Raithere:[reason for religious belief] 2. Went through some personal psychological crisis and became dependant upon religion to survive their trauma.

Well a 'psychological trauma' would surely make the soul more sensitive and a sensitive soul can recognize God more easily because it is more sensitive.

 

[Raithere]

Originally posted by Neville
Well a 'psychological trauma' would surely make the soul more sensitive and a sensitive soul can recognize God more easily because it is more sensitive.

Interesting hypothesis. Of course, it assumes the existence of souls and God but it is interesting none-the-less. How do you explain people who have been through such trauma, however, and still do not 'recognize God'. What about those who are religious and lose their faith after such trauma? I also wonder why God seems to be so difficult to find... is he hiding or something? Why doesn't he just make himself obvious to everyone?

~Raithere

 

[TruthSeeker]

Raithere,

That is not the only case when a soul become more sensitive to God. After we go to sleep, we become very sensitive. Mainly just before you start to dream. The challenge is to be between conscious but at the same time be almost unconscious. It is like walking on rope without losing balance.

The reason why it is hard to find God is because our conscience, our mind, will and emotions, is always hiding Him from us. He used to say that to listen to Him with our minds it is like trying to listen a bird in the middle of a traffic jam. It is not very easy. Since you silence you mind, listening to Him becomes much easier.

He doesn't hide. He actually tries to show Himself. Just before He comes He will become very evident to everyone. I hope you see it happening... and that you believe in Him before it happens...

 

[Raithere]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
That is not the only case when a soul become more sensitive to God. After we go to sleep, we become very sensitive. Mainly just before you start to dream. The challenge is to be between conscious but at the same time be almost unconscious. It is like walking on rope without losing balance.

I practiced lucid dreaming for a long time and even had a few successes... I did not find God even though I believed in God at the time.

The reason why it is hard to find God is because our conscience, our mind, will and emotions, is always hiding Him from us. He used to say that to listen to Him with our minds it is like trying to listen a bird in the middle of a traffic jam. It is not very easy. Since you silence you mind, listening to Him becomes much easier.

I am also quite proficient at meditation, I use it regularly to relax and rest my mind. Again, I began this while I was a theist and I have never found evidence of God. Only unity... but unity without intent.

He doesn't hide. He actually tries to show Himself. Just before He comes He will become very evident to everyone. I hope you see it happening... and that you believe in Him before it happens.

I seek truth, not to defend any particular position. If I find evidence I will believe. It is as simple as that. I've no fear of God, if he indeed exists. Nor do I fear the probability that there is no God. I am content.

Peace
~Raithere

 

[Neville]

Exactly Truthseeker!

Posted by Raithere Interesting hypothesis. Of course, it assumes the existence of souls and God but it is interesting none-the-less. How do you explain people who have been through such trauma, however, and still do not 'recognize God'. What about those who are religious and lose their faith after such trauma? I also wonder why God seems to be so difficult to find... is he hiding or something? Why doesn't he just make himself obvious to everyone?

The people who go through traumas might begin to disbelieve because it doesnt make sense to them (maybe people who have been raised as christians?). For a 'Ned Flanderish' character who believes that they only do good (following dogma and not thinking for themselves!) this might not make sense because they believe that they only do good. God doesnt hide truthseeker. Its just (IMO) that most people are 'dense' and ignorant that they cannot see God. If someone is enjoying life then why would they question anything (i have been there). Like it says in the bible: "seek and ill be there". People who are ignorant dont even contemplate the possibility of God, even if they think they are looking for him, if they see him they will refuse to believe and think it is coincidence. This is because they dont want to believe. What i am saying is that God is everywhere its just that people cannot see him because they: dont look, dont want to believe or are so wrapped up in themselves that they cannot see him, however bad times come to everybody and it is better to start from scratch early on and build up than build up for a large proportion of ones life only to see it be knocked down later on. It is harder to build then cause one has become accustomed to the 'luxury'.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Raithere,

I practiced lucid dreaming for a long time and even had a few successes... I did not find God even though I believed in God at the time.

I wasn't talking about lucid dreaming, I was talking just before it. There is a little time between being partially awake and lucid dreaming that let you choose wheter you will have a dream or stay awake in a subtle conscious state. In this state, your mind play no role. When you have a lucid dream, your mind is active again; however, it uses different parts of itself. In the state I was talking about the self-conscious mind is almost completly (or completly...?) turned off.

I am also quite proficient at meditation, I use it regularly to relax and rest my mind. Again, I began this while I was a theist and I have never found evidence of God. Only unity... but unity without intent.

Unity with who?
How do you picture finding God? Do you picture seeing a white beared old man? I hope not... It seems that whoever sees Him dies... I dunno... that's what is written in Exodus... I think...

I seek truth, not to defend any particular position. If I find evidence I will believe. It is as simple as that. I've no fear of God, if he indeed exists. Nor do I fear the probability that there is no God. I am content.

Why are you not a theist anymore? And why didn't you become an agnostic instead of an atheist?


Neville,

God doesnt hide truthseeker.

I believe you meant "Raithere", didn't you?

 

[Raithere]

Originally posted by Neville
Its just (IMO) that most people are 'dense' and ignorant that they cannot see God.

That's somewhat unfair. You've seen my posts, would you call me dense or ignorant?

If someone is enjoying life then why would they question anything (i have been there).

Granted, confusing and troubling life issues call these things to question, however, some people are simply curious. I've been in both places.

People who are ignorant dont even contemplate the possibility of God, even if they think they are looking for him, if they see him they will refuse to believe and think it is coincidence. This is because they dont want to believe.

What about people like me who started off believing but had lots of questions? My path to atheism was simply that of asking these questions and trying to eke out the answers from various paradigms, religious and secular. I gave religion a fair shake; I founded my assumptions upon it and sought the answers. Religion, I found, contained various truths but no manner of truly supporting them, they were simply assumed. I want to know more... I want to know who, how, where, why, and when. I want the details. Religion failed miserably. The answer was always "Have faith." Bullshit. Faith is for those who don't have the balls or the intellect to deal with the questions and are afriad of the answers.

~Raithere

 

[Raithere]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
I wasn't talking about lucid dreaming, I was talking just before it.

Yes, I'm familiar with it... it's essentially a meditative state.

Unity with who?

Not with who, with what... the answer being everything. The Universe is one thing... the apparently discrete nature of things is an illusion. Physics has spent the last 50 years or so verifying this fact.

How do you picture finding God? Do you picture seeing a white beared old man? I hope not...

The only consciousness that I am aware of is my own. I infer the existence of consciousness in other people and animals. But that is all.

Why are you not a theist anymore? And why didn't you become an agnostic instead of an atheist?

I'm not a theist because theism did not hold the answers to the questions I had. I was agnostic for quite a while and in some sense I still am. But I realized that even my agnostic acceptance of God was unfounded and now, technically, I am an atheist. I find, however, that I fit comfortably into no particular category. In some sense I am a cosmotheist, an agnostic, and an atheist.

~Raithere

 

[TruthSeeker]

Raithere,

Not with who, with what... the answer being everything. The Universe is one thing... the apparently discrete nature of things is an illusion. Physics has spent the last 50 years or so verifying this fact.

But scientists and you still don't know what is life and cannot comprehend how it works. And since God is Life itself and He is everywhere, you can feel Him everywhere, as the universe was alive...

The only consciousness that I am aware of is my own. I infer the existence of consciousness in other people and animals. But that is all.

So how do you picture finding God...?

I'm not a theist because theism did not hold the answers to the questions I had. I was agnostic for quite a while and in some sense I still am. But I realized that even my agnostic acceptance of God was unfounded and now, technically, I am an atheist. I find, however, that I fit comfortably into no particular category. In some sense I am a cosmotheist, an agnostic, and an atheist.

Ahh... and does science hold the answers to the questions you have...!?!?

 

[inspector]

"I find, however, that I fit comfortably into no particular category. In some sense I am a cosmotheist, an agnostic, and an atheist."
----------------------


In your quest to divorce yourself from conventional labeling, you cannot elude the label of sinner, as nobody can.........and the only path to redemption is through faith in Jesus, not astrology or scientism.

I want you in Heaven, Raithere, so we can debate other, less important things, such as why the gates are 'pearly' or why angels have 'halos'.

God's speed to you and yours in the new year.

><>

 

[Cris]

inspector,

In your quest to divorce yourself from conventional labeling, you cannot elude the label of sinner, as nobody can.........

It is true that we cannot stop other people sitting in unsolicited judgment and assigning to us their own derogatory labels. But there is no onus on anyone to accept such prejudicial judgments especially when they are not rationally created. One of the most detestable aspects of Christians is their overtly arrogant desire to judge others according to their own isolated value system. It is that judgmental evangelical nature that makes the whole of Christianity so repugnant.

and the only path to redemption is through faith in Jesus, not astrology or scientism.

The voice of the preacher and the snake oil salesman.

so we can debate other, less important things, such as why the gates are 'pearly' or why angels have 'halos'.

Ultimate boredom. Thank God that there is no heaven.