"proof that the christian god can't exist, debunked"

[cluelusshusbund]

Origionaly posted by Jan
What I meant by "free-agent" in the context I used, was a person who had no limitations at all, either bodily or mentally.

Such a person would be God, or someone like God, but less powerfull.

Is the Holey-Bible God the only "free-agent" you know of.???

Anyhow... God has no limits so surly has free-will... do you thank God is pleased wit the humans he used his free-will to create.???

 

[scifes]

WOW man, you sure have some razor teeth under that clown face of yours..

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
Hay Scifes... Did God know that Adam an Eve woud sin even befor he created 'em.???



How was it ther choise when they was designed in such a way that them sinnin was inevitable.???

hmm..good question..
the answer:
because they didn't know whether they were designed to sin or not when they sinned..
an outcome was inevitable, which one? they didn't know, god knew of course, but he didn't give the knowledge of the outcome of their choice to them so they can actually make that choice and then hold them accountable for it..
see, if god told them "don't eat from that tree", then 5 minutes later said "oh and btw, it's already been written in the book of time that you're gonna eat from it", then yeah, adam would be like "then why the **** did you tell us not to eat from it?" (of course adam would be more polite with god)..BUT,
god told them not to eat, they heard him, and could've (to their knowledge) not have eaten..
also there's the crux of all this being in the past, in the present or future it's more clear:
let's say i work in a company, and i was offered a bribe, hell, i'm predestined to either accepting it or not, but i wouldn't know which one is it till i choose it..i can accept the bribery and say god knew it all along, or i can refuse it and say god knew it all along.
BUT,
if i do accept it..
and i get caught, and it becomes the biggest slander in history..
and what? million of years from now(if humans still existed) one would ask the other "was it really scifes's choice whether to accept the bribe or not?, hasn't it been known by god beforehand? will scifes be held accountable for it then or not?"

God rigged the "game" for a specific out-com (that Adam an Eve woud sin)... so how is it the fault of Adam an Eve that they sined.???

because he rigged them with choice too.
he rigged them with not knowing that they were rigged to sin

 

[scifes]

Predestination and free will aren't the problem. You can skirt these by saying we are free to choose,

NO WE'RE NOT!! ccan''t you read it written all over the place?

but god knows which way we will choose in any given situation/place/time. The real problem arises with god having created the universe (and us) with full knowledge of every action we would or wouldn't make. It isn't like he's a passive observer of all these instances of "free will," the real problem is that he made us and our environment in a way that precludes any alternative actions.

i guess you're kinda correct.

Ergo, he is responsible for everything we do and don't do, evil and otherwise. Again, not by dint of foreknowledge, but due to his omnipotence and role as Prime Mover.

nope, god bestowed us with responsibility too, or is that beyond his ability?
he made some people go to hell, but he bestowed them with the ability not to, so that (and the following is strictly religious) at the end of time, at the day of judgment, those who hell was made before them, and they were created for it, would be asked by god whether they were able to choose otherwise? whether they were able to follow? that of course would be yes, and so then he puts them in hell that he created for them, allll along..roflmao: sorry, couldn't stand the irony)..because like, take this place for example, if one wants to open a new thread and say "hey guys i really believe in jesus you know, so..wish me luck"..what's gonna stop him? can those who chose NOT to open these threads come in front of god and say "hey that's unfair!! you KNEW all along that we're gonna screw up..you KNEW all along that we wouldn't want to get banned from sciforums and so we wouldn't open those threads, it's actually YOUR fault god!!" lool..then they're gonna search for james r and strangle the life outta him..

PS, i really don't mean to preach, which this may be regarded as, but am just trying to demonstrate how people not only have free will, but are logically responsible for their choices too..and james is a good guy really, if he just gives sam a break.

He made Adam, Eve, and the apple knowing full-well what was about to happen. Every bad thing in the universe is thus his fault.

lol of course it is..

Which is why it's best not to believe in the asshole, rather than suffer such a prick to exist in our superstition. He doesn't deserve our belief, much less our fealty.

are you stoooopid or what? what the hell kinda logic is that? are you outta your mind?
OK we get it, lets imagine god IS responsible for all the evil in this world, and he's evil enough to actually punish some of us for it, your logical conclusion is to heck with him, we're gonna ignore him? we're gonna run away? we're gonna riot? we're gonna sue him?
shouldn't the logical choice be to at least try NOT to be with the group of the poor souls who're gonna get the unfair judgment? don't you give a damn about survival, and this is no earthly survival(ASSUMING GOD EXISTS OF COURSE), it's eternal shit..

and here you come and say "god's unfair, so we shouldn't believe in him"..where's the connection between the two things?

or wait a sec..are you saying the idea of an evil god existing is too hard to bear, so you'll just shut your eyes to it and act if it isn't there? that's your answer? intellectual denial?

 

[scifes]

What causes you to continue to choose to sin.???

idk, what causes anyone to sin?
....
..
hmm, i guess it's to "gain" stuff..

 

[scifes]

Since you've shown yourself to be intellectually dishonest (in more ways than one) there seems to be no point carrying on.
I take it that you mean "Let me (Scifes) forget it, because then I can pretend I didn't fail".


One of the "more important things" being, from the evidence, maintaining your belief while continuing to also believe you're capable of following (and understanding) a logical argument.

ok look, let's make a deal, if you promise me whatever hapens in this thread will not affect anything outside it, i'll do anything you want, i'll reply to alll your questions and arguments and everything..

although to be extremely honest, jan is handeling you veeary well IMO, so by agreeing to play by any rules you put out, i think we'll have a better chance of knowing if the chandelier is hanging from the ceiling or is erected on the ground.

 

[cluelusshusbund]

Scifies
...ask any sinner in this world, was he able not to sin? ask me, and i'd tell you yes i can, when i choose to sin i do sin, and when i choose not to i don't..temptation plays a role, but in the end no one forces me.

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
What causes you to continue to choose to sin.???

i guess it's to "gain" stuff..

Jesus hates sin an yet you contunue to freely choose to sin... do you love sin mor than you love pleasin Jesus.???

 

[scifes]

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
What causes you to continue to choose to sin.???



Jesus hates sin an yet you contunue to freely choose to sin... do you love sin mor than you love pleasin Jesus.???

will sometimes overcomes temptation, and sometimes doesn't.

 

[Dywyddyr]

This does not define destiny, it is the definition of destine, and has nothing to do with the topic of predestination

Your knowledge of English requires some work. Destine/ destiny/ (pre)-destine are all related.
For example:

des·ti·ny (dst-n)
n. pl. des·ti·nies
1. The inevitable or necessary fate to which a particular person or thing is destined; one's lot.
2. A predetermined course of events

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/destiny

If God has perfect knowledge and intelligence, how he be unsure of anything?
I'm saying He knows it will happen.

So god does know?

If the person hasn't chosen, then there is nothing to know with regard to choosing what hasn't been chosen.

So god doesn't know?

But, God knows the person, so if the question of choice was to arise, then God would know what choice would be made on that basis.

All you're doing here is moving the problem back one step.
If the question were to arise? What?
If god has perfect knowledge then surely he also knows whether the question will or will not arise.
And you're also contradicting yourself:
Jan 1: so if the question of choice was to arise, then God would know what choice would be made on that basis
Jan 2: If the person hasn't chosen, then there is nothing to know with regard to choosing what hasn't been chosen
You're wriggling and evading. As usual.

Knowledge of something has to be based on something. Your implication that something can be known when there's nothing to be known is illogical.

Once more you fail to actually apply logic despite calling on it.
If god knows, infallibly, then he knows.
He knows which we will choose if the question arises. But he also knows whether that question will arise or not...

In the bible, Eve chose to partake of the forbiden fruit, despite God's instuction, is clear evidence (hypothetical or otherwise) that free-will exists, yet you argue that it cannot less God is not God by dint of His perfect knowledge. This marks you as someone who feels he is qualified to talk about His characteristics, who in actuality is not.

I see you failed at English comprehension. I am not discussing the "nature of god" but the consequences of that nature as claimed by others.

Everything in this discussion is based on assumption.

Wrong.

It is regarded as natural.
But we don't comment on it, because we are in perfect knowledge of it (those of us who are able). That's the beauty of perfect knowledge, one doesn't have to think about ones actions, it appears as if it's the most natural thing in the world.

Therefore your introduction of "calculation" was totally specious.

 

[Dywyddyr]

ok look, let's make a deal, if you promise me whatever hapens in this thread will not affect anything outside it

It never has so far has it?
You and I have had some really ding-dong arguments in one thread and still (AFAIK) been okay in others.

although to be extremely honest, jan is handeling you veeary well IMO

I'm sorry but you're wrong. Typical examples from Jan:

Jan 1: so if the question of choice was to arise, then God would know what choice would be made on that basis
Jan 2: If the person hasn't chosen, then there is nothing to know with regard to choosing what hasn't been chosen (BOTH! from Post #200)

Jan 1: [Is our free-will limited in any way.???] Yes, our bodies. (post #195)
Jan 2: Free will is the ability to make your own choices. The limitation of the body doesn't impede that. (Post #198)

Jan appears to not know what he thinks on the subject and is floundering by replying to each post individually without an overall concept except, maybe, "defend the belief". He's saying anything that will make his point at that particular time, even if contradicts something he's said previously in order to defend another point.

 

[Dywyddyr]

because they didn't know whether they were designed to sin or not when they sinned..
an outcome was inevitable, which one? they didn't know, god knew of course

If god knew then the outcome was, as you said, inevitable. If god knew they would pick (and he's never wrong) how could they pick B. Or in this case, if god knew (infallibly) that they would sin, how could they not? If it's known beforehand then that is what must happen.

but he didn't give the knowledge of the outcome of their choice to them so they can actually make that choice and then hold them accountable for it..

It doesn't matter that they didn't know.
If god knew (i.e. it was a fact) that they would sin (and god is never wrong) they could not have "chosen" otherwise.

also there's the crux of all this being in the past, in the present or future it's more clear:
let's say i work in a company, and i was offered a bribe, hell, i'm predestined to either accepting it or not, but i wouldn't know which one is it till i choose it..i can accept the bribery and say god knew it all along, or i can refuse it and say god knew it all along.

But in either case that says nothing real about god's knowledge, that's your claim about god's knowledge. If god knew infallibly which you "choose" before you chose it then you didn't actually choose.

I think this highlights the failure (in understanding the paradox) quite well.

Does god know before we choose? (Or even something as simple as does god know what the next animal you see will be?)
Bearing in mind that know doesn't mean "yes, but this could happen" or "there's a probability that you could decide to forget it and go home". To know means know for a fact, an incontrovertible fact that cannot alter and was therefore always true.

Let's try a simple example: if I have a card that is either red or green on one side does it matter what I think it will be when I turn it over to look? If it's red it will always be red.
I can bet on what colour it will be, but that won't alter the outcome: and an outcome that is a fact is a fact.

Extrapolate this (in case you think I'm going off at a tangent): If I claim that somewhere there is a planet with exactly 87 fish in a hand-shaped lake, does my claim (or someone else's counter-claim that I couldn't possibly know) alter whether it exists or not?
If it is a fact that that planet exists then my knowledge won't alter that fact.

Similarly with the "choice": if god knows then it must be a fact (either way: yes or no) and doesn't alter based on whether we know or not.

 

[scifes]

It never has so far has it?
You and I have had some really ding-dong arguments in one thread and still (AFAIK) been okay in others.

lol i know, but as you said, that's how it's been so far..
well then ok..so what do you want me to do? i am telling you that i am ready to subject my self to any restraints you put, in order to have me "lose" this argument, i mean just have it end, reach a conclusion..

I'm sorry but you're wrong. Typical examples from Jan:

Jan 1: so if the question of choice was to arise, then God would know what choice would be made on that basis
Jan 2: If the person hasn't chosen, then there is nothing to know with regard to choosing what hasn't been chosen (BOTH! from Post #200)

Jan 1: [Is our free-will limited in any way.???] Yes, our bodies. (post #195)
Jan 2: Free will is the ability to make your own choices. The limitation of the body doesn't impede that. (Post #198)

hmm..:scratchin:

Jan appears to not know what he thinks on the subject and is floundering by replying to each post individually without an overall concept except, maybe, "defend the belief". He's saying anything that will make his point at that particular time, even if contradicts something he's said previously in order to defend another point.

that's why i said s/he's handeling you very well
one who's only concept is "oppose the belief" is bound to see others as holders of nothing but "defend the belief", you know the hammer nail saying don't you?

and jan's a guy???

 

[scifes]

If god knew then the outcome was, as you said, inevitable. If god knew they would pick (and he's never wrong) how could they pick B. Or in this case, if god knew (infallibly) that they would sin, how could they not? If it's known beforehand then that is what must happen.

yup it must happen, but they didn't know that, so they obliviously "chose" it.

It doesn't matter that they didn't know.

:facepalm:
of course it does!!
if they knew they didn't have a choice then they didn't have a choice, they were forced into it obviously!
but if they didn't know they didn't have a choice then they are identical to those who genuinely have a choice. as choice is a state of mind.

If god knew (i.e. it was a fact) that they would sin (and god is never wrong) they could not have "chosen" otherwise.

they couldn't have, but they didn't know that, so they can't run away from responsibility, their excuse doesn't hold.

But in either case that says nothing real about god's knowledge, that's your claim about god's knowledge. If god knew infallibly which you "choose" before you chose it then you didn't actually choose.

I think this highlights the failure (in understanding the paradox) quite well.

Does god know before we choose? (Or even something as simple as does god know what the next animal you see will be?)
Bearing in mind that know doesn't mean "yes, but this could happen" or "there's a probability that you could decide to forget it and go home". To know means know for a fact, an incontrovertible fact that cannot alter and was therefore always true.

Let's try a simple example: if I have a card that is either red or green on one side does it matter what I think it will be when I turn it over to look? If it's red it will always be red.
I can bet on what colour it will be, but that won't alter the outcome: and an outcome that is a fact is a fact.

Extrapolate this (in case you think I'm going off at a tangent): If I claim that somewhere there is a planet with exactly 87 fish in a hand-shaped lake, does my claim (or someone else's counter-claim that I couldn't possibly know) alter whether it exists or not?
If it is a fact that that planet exists then my knowledge won't alter that fact.

i really appreciate you actually offering examples, but i'm sorry i couldn't understand any.

but i just had a flash of genius, you'll love this (at first);
two kids live with their parents, the first kid's are biological REAL parents, the second is adopted with ILLUSIONARY parents, does the faith/belief/knowledge/whatever they both share, they both hold, which is identical in both of them, that their parents are real, make both their parents real?
lol whaddya think?

Similarly with the "choice": if god knows then it must be a fact (either way: yes or no) and doesn't alter based on whether we know or not.

yes it is a fact, we can't choose otherwise, but since we don't know that we end up "choosing" none the less..lol

 

[Jan Ardena]

Dywyddyr,

(pre)-destine are all related.
For example:

Related, but not the same.
Destiny does not necessarily require conscousness by any definition, but does require someTHING, or some force, or agency. The laws of material
nature is a force, a force which predetermines the fate of all things under its control.

So good does know?

I'll tell you what, you answer my question first, then I
will answer yours.

So god doesn't know?

There is nothing to know.

If god has perfect knowledge then surely he also knows whether the question will or will not arise.

What does having "perfect knowledge" have to do with knowing something that doesn't exist, or is yet to exist.

And you're also contradicting yourself:
Jan 1: so if the question of choice was to arise, then God would know what choice would be made on that basis
Jan 2: If the person hasn't chosen, then there is nothing to know with regard to choosing what hasn't been chosen
You're wriggling and evading. As usual.

That's neither wiggling or evading.

He knows which we will choose if the question arises. But he also knows whether that question will arise or not...

1) Why would He?
2) How is it possible to have knowledge of something that doesn'st exist?

Such a question may arise, but it may not, it is dependant on the circumstances. To know that the question, and choice will arise, before it existed is to know something that has already happened, although it hasn't happened. That is illogical.

I see you failed at English comprehension. I am not discussing the "nature of god" but the consequences of that nature as claimed by others.

Who?

Therefore your introduction of "calculation" was totally specious.

How so?

jan.

 

[Dywyddyr]

lol i know, but as you said, that's how it's been so far

If I've managed to put up with you so far...

well then ok..so what do you want me to do? i am telling you that i am ready to subject my self to any restraints you put, in order to have me "lose" this argument, i mean just have it end, reach a conclusion..

If that's what you think I'm doing then you really HAVE missed the point. What rules have I introduced?
I'm not looking for a "me win, you lose" I'm looking for the "right" answer.
And before you go off ranting, by "right" I mean an answer that holds up logically and makes sense.
There's always the possibility that such an answer could well turn out to wrong: (e.g. if god does exist and he's somehow fixed things so that they make sense to us but are actually not the case - but that comes back to the "it's essentially fruitless making any inquiry" category).

that's why i said s/he's handeling you very well
one who's only concept is "oppose the belief" is bound to see others as holders of nothing but "defend the belief", you know the hammer nail saying don't you?

And you miss the point again (and make a false assumption): if I have an overall coherent concept and Jan doesn't (to the point where he directly contradicts a previous statement of his own in order to sustain his "argument") how valid is the argument?
And you're assuming that that my concept is "oppose the belief". On the contrary, my sole purpose here is to check the logic.

and jan's a guy???

Rule 1: everybody on the internet is a guy
As far as I know "he" is. Jan is a male name (or a shortened form of Janet, to be honest I assumed [going by Rule 1] that Jan is male: my apologies to Jan if that isn't the case.)
On the other hand I do know we have female posters that are (mostly) comfortable with everyone else's assumption that they're male, it reduces certain, ah, types of poster making inappropriate comments/ PMs.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Dywyddyr

I'm sorry but you're wrong. Typical examples from Jan:

Jan 1: so if the question of choice was to arise, then God would know what choice would be made on that basis
Jan 2: If the person hasn't chosen, then there is nothing to know with regard to choosing what hasn't been chosen (BOTH! from Post #200)

Jan 1: [Is our free-will limited in any way.???] Yes, our bodies. (post #195)
Jan 2: Free will is the ability to make your own choices. The limitation of the body doesn't impede that. (Post #198)

Jan appears to not know what he thinks on the subject and is floundering by replying to each post individually without an overall concept except, maybe, "defend the belief". He's saying anything that will make his point at that particular time, even if contradicts something he's said previously in order to defend another point.

All you have done is display quotes, then proceed to to say they are contradictory, which is all you seem offer to as refutation.
Show why they are contradictions, give examples of the floundering.

Anyone can say "Wrong", but it don't mean shit, in a debate unless you
demonstrate why.

You on the other hand, have offered absolutely nothing.
Stop squirming and nail this discussion if you can.

jan.

 

[Dywyddyr]

Related, but not the same.
Destiny does not necessarily require conscousness by any definition, but does require someTHING, or some force, or agency. The laws of material
nature is a force, a force which predetermines the fate of all things under its control.

Wrong: as shown in the quoted definition I gave.

I'll tell you what, you answer my question first, then I will answer yours.

So ask it...
Or are you referring to this one?
Does god know before the person chooses what will be chosen?
I thought you'd left MY question to YOU in there by accident.

There is nothing to know.

Pardon?
So now you're claiming that before we make a "choice" there is nothing to know? Not even "what will we choose"? So god doesn't know, before we make a choice, what we will choose?

What does having "perfect knowledge" have to do with knowing something that doesn't exist, or is yet to exist.

I'm sorry, I was under the impression that omniscience, perfect knowledge, included (sort of by definition) knowing everything that can be known.
So perfect knowledge also includes ignorance? I have perfect knowledge, I am omniscient, but I haven't got a clue where my keys are?

That's neither wiggling or evading.

Again you're failing badly somewhere:
Look at your statements:
Jan 1: God would know
Jan 2: there is nothing to know

1) Why would He?
2) How is it possible to have knowledge of something that doesn'st exist?

Contradicting yourself again.
"He knows which we will choose if the question arises."
If he knows before we choose (when the question arises) how can he not also know whether or not the question will arise? Is his knowledge of us only partial so that in certain situations only he knows what we do, yet at the same time so flawed that he doesn't know what situations we will get into? Do we not arrive at a "decision point" by making other decisions (facing other "choices"?
The choice of "ice cream or cake" arrives because of an earlier choice "restaurant or bookshop", which came about through "stay at home or go into town", which came about through " buy a house or go to a foreign country for two years". Everything we do is a selection between "alternatives". Does god only know what we will do for half of those "choices"? Or 75%. Tell me please.

Such a question may arise, but it may not, it is dependant on the circumstances. To know that the question, and choice will arise, before it existed is to know something that has already happened, although it hasn't happened. That is illogical.

In other words god doesn't know.

Who?

Theists, including you: they are the ones who ascribe "perfect knowledge" and "omniscience" to god.

How so?

Because you raised the point in an effort to counter my statement that I took the perfect knowledge to be "in the nature of god" and you argue yourself round to claiming that perfect calculation turns out to be "the most natural thing in the world" that "one doesn't have to think about". I.e. what I said in the first place.

 

[Dywyddyr]

All you have done is display quotes, then proceed to to say they are contradictory, which is all you seem offer to as refutation.
Show why they are contradictions, give examples of the floundering.

Okey doke.

Jan 1: so if the question of choice was to arise, then God would know what choice would be made on that basis

Is a claim that god would know.

Jan 2: If the person hasn't chosen, then there is nothing to know with regard to choosing what hasn't been chosen (BOTH! from Post #200)

Is a claim that there is nothing to know.

So god would know which we would choose, yet at the same time he wouldn't know which we would choose because you claim (incorrectly) that "there's nothing to know".

Jan 1: [Is our free-will limited in any way.???] Yes, our bodies. (post #195)

A statement that our bodies limit our choices.

Jan 2: Free will is the ability to make your own choices. The limitation of the body doesn't impede that. (Post #198)

A directly contradictory statement that our bodies do not impede our choices.

 

[Shadow1]

.

hmm, i didnt understand this topic much, can anyone say it more simply, i don't christanity, but i do beleive in God,

 

[Dywyddyr]

yup it must happen, but they didn't know that, so they obliviously "chose" it.

But they didn't "choose". It was pre-ordained that they go the way they did. Everything they picked was set for them.

:facepalm:
of course it does!!
if they knew they didn't have a choice then they didn't have a choice, they were forced into it obviously!

You're still wrong.
If god knew which they would pick (i.e. it was, from the very start, a FACT) then they could NOT choose other than what was predicted, or god would have been wrong.

but if they didn't know they didn't have a choice then they are identical to those who genuinely have a choice. as choice is a state of mind.

No, choice is not a state of mind and not knowing is NOT identical to actually having a choice.

they couldn't have, but they didn't know that, so they can't run away from responsibility, their excuse doesn't hold.

You just said it: "they couldn't have". If they couldn't have then how can THEY be held responsible?

i really appreciate you actually offering examples, but i'm sorry i couldn't understand any.

So just stick to the logic.

but i just had a flash of genius, you'll love this (at first);
two kids live with their parents, the first kid's are biological REAL parents, the second is adopted with ILLUSIONARY parents, does the faith/belief/knowledge/whatever they both share, they both hold, which is identical in both of them, that their parents are real, make both their parents real?
lol whaddya think?

Not even close.
In the first case it is a fact that the parents are his (biological) parents, in the second, it's false.

yes it is a fact, we can't choose otherwise, but since we don't know that we end up "choosing" none the less..lol

Still wrong.
Put it this way, even though we don't know, CAN we we pick the "other" one?
If god knows we'll pick A, could we pick B? Is it at all possible for us to pick B?
Note this isn't about "do we think we can pick B" it's "could we, under any circumstances whatsoever, pick B"?

 

[Jan Ardena]

Dywyddyr,

Wrong: as shown in the quoted definition I gave.

You gave two definitions.
The first defined the word destine, the second word was destiny..
"Destiny", does not require consciousness as an agent.

post 193,

1. des·tine (dstn)
tr.v. des·tined, des·tin·ing, des·tines
1. To determine beforehand; preordain: a foolish scheme destined to fail; a film destined to become a classic.
2. To assign for a specific end, use, or purpose: money destined to pay for their child's education.
3. To direct toward a given destination: a flight destined for Tokyo.

The 2nd definition, post 208

des·ti·ny (dst-n)
n. pl. des·ti·nies
1. The inevitable or necessary fate to which a particular person or thing is destined; one's lot.
2. A predetermined course of events

Can you see the difference?

So ask it...
Or are you referring to this one?
Does god know before the person chooses what will be chosen?
I thought you'd left MY question to YOU in there by accident.

That is not the question I asked; why don't you pay attention?

post 208,

If God has perfect knowledge and intelligence, how he be unsure of anything?

So now you're claiming that before we make a "choice" there is nothing to know?

I've been saying all along if the question has not arised, the person will not
have to make a choice for a question that has not arised. This means there is no choice for the person to make, hence there is nothing to know. If the question does arise, and the person is faced with making a choice, then the choice can be known by God.

As I have stated this a gazillion times, I am not going to state it again.

Not even "what will we choose"? So god doesn't know, before we make a choice, what we will choose?

God will know anything that can be known, that is omniscience.
The notion of knowing something that is non-existence is illogical, what to speak of silly.

I'm sorry, I was under the impression that omniscience, perfect knowledge, included (sort of by definition) knowing everything that can be known.

Yes, everything that CAN be known.
How can knowledge of the non existent take place?

So perfect knowledge also includes ignorance? I have perfect knowledge, I am omniscient, but I haven't got a clue where my keys are?

If you regard the non-existent as something to know, then yes.
Do your keys exist?

Contradicting yourself again.
"He knows which we will choose if the question arises."
If he knows before we choose (when the question arises) how can he not also know whether or not the question will arise?

I didn't say God cannot know that the question will arise.
I said if the question doesn't arise, then there is nothing to know.
Hence my question to you;
How is it possible to have knowledge of something that doesn'st exist?

Is his knowledge of us only partial so that in certain situations only he knows what we do, yet at the same time so flawed that he doesn't know what situations we will get into?

I don't get your point.

Everything we do is a selection between "alternatives". Does god only know what we will do for half of those "choices"? Or 75%. Tell me please.

Our choices are based on reasons, at specific times, places, and circumstances, and the reasons dictate the choices we make at any given
moment in time. We are constantly in a state of acting, in some capacity or other, even if we are not aware of it. We are the sum total of our actions, and all our choice decisions are a result of every action and reaction made up to each moment.
From scriptoral accounts it is understood that God accompanies every living entity within the heart, and knows every single detail of that LE from the begining of time.

In other words god doesn't know.

You're just wasting my time, aren't you.

jan.