Proof that the Christian god cannot exist

[Hellblade8]

Your belief is starting to sound scary Hellblade8, and whats with that name anyway ?

What name?

 

[SnakeLord]

However, it should be noted as you will no longer be of the flesh that said person will not be tempted by such fleshy desires

My follow up question therefore is what exactly is the purpose of this fleshy desire tempting existence?

We can ascertain several things:

1) Mankind exist and many do fleshy things that god does not like.

2) god already knows and knew prior to mans existence that these people would do these fleshy things that he doesn't like.

3) Eventually he will take the good folk to heaven and the bad folk that did bad fleshy things will burn in a lake of fire.

4) Why bother with earth and mankind in the first place? Why not just make this heavenly realm with beings that aren't fixated on bad fleshy desires?

5) You have said that 'people' in heaven will still have a choice, but wont be tempted by fleshy desires and can make choices with a clear mind. In saying, once again I ask what the point is in this human/earth existence?

There's absolutely nothing to 'test' because you already have the results and thus it would seem more pertinent to avoid any being burning for eternity and just create a heavenly realm with folk not tempted by fleshy things.

The only plausible explanation is that god wants people to burn. He must actually enjoy seeing it happen.

 

[Enmos]

What name?

Your name, "Hellblade8".

 

[Hellblade8]

My follow up question therefore is what exactly is the purpose of this fleshy desire tempting existence?

Eh? Perhaps I was a little too keen on the flesh thing, what I mean to say is that temptation to do sin as we know it will be eliminated. I'm not sure how or what the result will be, but free choice is still existant to angels so thus its likely so for humans. Things like lust are not actually part of use anymore, because we will no longer need it. Lust is part of the reproduction cycle, and thus is needed, as angels do not marry, we will have no need of it.

We can ascertain several things:

1) Mankind exist and many do fleshy things that god does not like.

Its not flesh stuff that He does not like, its that we are so worried about it more than He deems it needs. He thinks we focus too much on our own pleasure and not worry enough about what's really important in life.

Sins are our selfish desires manifesting in wicked ways. You and I may both love the same woman, which is a flesh desire, but go about it in different ways. You try to compete fair and square, and thus you are correct in your approach to it. However, if I, being selfish decided that I should have her and you should not no matter what and I murder you, then I am in sin because I cared more about my own selfish desires that I ended your existence to appease them.

2) god already knows and knew prior to mans existence that these people would do these fleshy things that he doesn't like.

Supposedly.

3) Eventually he will take the good folk to heaven and the bad folk that did bad fleshy things will burn in a lake of fire.

Yes.

4) Why bother with earth and mankind in the first place? Why not just make this heavenly realm with beings that aren't fixated on bad fleshy desires?

Because He want's people to have a choice in making their life. The selfish and evil people shall burn in hell and the good people shall ascend to heaven.

5) You have said that 'people' in heaven will still have a choice, but wont be tempted by fleshy desires and can make choices with a clear mind. In saying, once again I ask what the point is in this human/earth existence?

I don't know, I'mm not sure that Yahweh ever specified on such an event. If we take the firs chapter of the bible, then man was created without sin and he made a stupid choice and screwed the rest of us over, but given how unlikely that is, its likely He made us and I guess decided that He wanted us to make a choice of being good or evil. Those who where evil would go to hell and be punished, and those who where good would ascend to heaven.

There's absolutely nothing to 'test' because you already have the results and thus it would seem more pertinent to avoid any being burning for eternity and just create a heavenly realm with folk not tempted by fleshy things.

I have no idea as to why.

The only plausible explanation is that god wants people to burn. He must actually enjoy seeing it happen.

Again, no. The CC's version of afterlife events are somewhat flawed. Hell had existed before Jesus came about and it wasn't forever, it was only until those who had commited horrible acts had learned their lesson. Jesus's purpose was to reunite those who lived in Limbo with the Father.

 

[Hellblade8]

Your name, "Hellblade8".

And?

 

[(Q)]

Sure.

Then, there was no argument, if it was known and was predestined. Your god must have been doing it for funsies.

They where not killed in front of him.

And that makes it ok. Your vicious god actually killed Job's wife in front of him.

If you can bring the dead back to life, then perhaps there might be a debate there. Not to mention that you didn't give them life, and really its not like God had destroyed their presence, their souls where just sent to Limbo until the coming of Christ.

Can I too kill someones family, for funsies, and not worry about it as long as their souls are sent to limbo and they're "presences" are intact?

Which is not what He said. And again, God rewarded Job when He didn't even have to. Unless of course you know of any payment that Job gave to God in return for His protection yes?

The payment, which Job had to make, was the realization that his god was petty, cruel and immoral. And, he learned it the hard way.

 

[Enmos]

And?

Just wondering why such a religious person like yourself would choose such a nickname :shrug:

 

[Hellblade8]

Then, there was no argument, if it was known and was predestined. Your god must have been doing it for funsies.

I suppose sarcasm is lost to you.

And that makes it ok. Your vicious god actually killed Job's wife in front of him.

Yahweh did not kill Job's wife.

Can I too kill someones family, for funsies, and not worry about it as long as their souls are sent to limbo and they're "presences" are intact?

Again:

1) You didn't give them life.

2) You didn't give them everything they ever had, including life.

3) You aren't able to bring them back to life

4) You don't control Limbo or Hell.

5) Yahweh never did any harm to them, He just withdrew His protections.

The payment, which Job had to make, was the realization that his god was petty, cruel and immoral. And, he learned it the hard way.

No. You claim that Yahweh has some sort of duty to protect others from other cosmic forces, and yet why is this? Does Job deserve Yahweh's protection? Did he pay Yahweh? Did he do something that placed Yahweh in his debt?

 

[Hellblade8]

Just wondering why such a religious person like yourself would choose such a nickname :shrug:

What? Oh, I play D&D and its one of the magical artifacts I created in my games.

 

[Enmos]

What? Oh, I play D&D and its one of the magical artifacts I created in my games.

Fair enough, was just wondering.

 

[(Q)]

I suppose sarcasm is lost to you.

Is reason lost to you?

5) Yahweh never did any harm to them, He just withdrew His protections.

Yahweh was every bit as guilty for his part in that heinous crime. Should I simply step aside as someone viciously kills my family?

No. You claim that Yahweh has some sort of duty to protect others from other cosmic forces, and yet why is this? Does Job deserve Yahweh's protection? Did he pay Yahweh? Did he do something that placed Yahweh in his debt?

You just don't seem to get it. Yahweh participated in the destruction of Job's family in order to make a point with Satan.

The moral of the story is that it's ok to kill, or participate willingly, in order to make a point.

 

[Enmos]

God permits "the Satan" to put the virtue of Job to the test, at first by giving him power over his property, but forbidding him to touch his person. Satan began by taking away all of Job's riches, his livestock, his house, his servants, and his children; a series of messengers informs him that they have perished in various disasters.

Job rends his clothes, shaves his head, and falls down upon the ground saying, "Naked I came from my mother's womb, And naked shall I return there. The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away; Blessed be the name of the Lord."[1]

As Job endures these calamities without reproaching Divine Providence, Satan solicits permission to afflict his person as well, and God says, "Behold he is in your hand, but don’t touch his life." Satan, therefore, smites him with dreadful boils, and Job, seated in ashes, scrapes off the corruption with a pot shard. His wife wants him to "curse God, and die" but Job answers, "Shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil?"

In the meantime, only three of Job's friends come to visit him in his misfortune — Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite, and Zophar the Naamathite. A fourth, Elihu the Buzite, first begins talking in chapter 32 and bears a distinguished part in the dialogue; his arrival is not explained. The friends spend a week sitting on the ground with Job, without speaking, until Job at last breaks his silence and complains of his misery.

Seems to me God did just a bit more than just withdraw his protection.

 

[Hellblade8]

Is reason lost to you?

Perhaps.

Yahweh was every bit as guilty for his part in that heinous crime. Should I simply step aside as someone viciously kills my family?

No. But Yahweh's family wasn't on the chopping block, and again, you and Yahweh are two different people. Yahweh is a god, you are a mortal. What He can do and what you can do are very different.

You just don't seem to get it. Yahweh participated in the destruction of Job's family in order to make a point with Satan.

No He didn't. He just didn't get involved.

The moral of the story is that it's ok to kill, or participate willingly, in order to make a point.

Actually the moral of the story is just because someone is having a bad life it doesn't mean that God is the one doing it or pouring His divine justice upon said person.

That's the whole point of the story.

 

[Enmos]

After several rounds of debate between Job and his friends, in a divine voice, described as coming from a "cloud" or "whirlwind", God describes, in evocative and lyrical language, what the experience of being responsible for the world is like, and asks if Job has ever had the experiences that He (God) has had.

God's answer underscores that Job shares the world with numerous powerful and remarkable creatures, creatures with lives and needs of their own, whom God must provide for, and the young of some hunger in a way that can only be satisfied by taking the lives of others. Does Job even have any experience of the world he lives in? Does he understand what it means to be responsible for such a world? Job admits that he does not.

God's speech also emphasizes his sovereignty in creating and maintaining the world. The thrust is not merely that God has experiences that Job does not, but also that God is King over the world and is not necessarily subject to questions from his creatures, including men. He declines to answer any of Job's questions or challenges with anything except "I am the Lord." Job asks God for forgiveness.

Could you please tell me what God is doing here and why?

 

[Hellblade8]

Seems to me God did just a bit more than just withdraw his protection.

Um, again, Yahweh didn't do that, it was Satan. Though I am surprised I had mixed up not harming Job and taking his life. I should really double check on stuff like that in the future.

 

[Hellblade8]

Could you please tell me what God is doing here and why?

I thought it was very clear, tell me what you do not understand and I shall attempt to explain.

 

[Enmos]

I thought it was very clear, tell me what you do not understand and I shall attempt to explain.

Well God seems to be intimidating Job, but i dont know the full story.

 

[Enmos]

Um, again, Yahweh didn't do that, it was Satan. Though I am surprised I had mixed up not harming Job and taking his life. I should really double check on stuff like that in the future.

True, God didnt do it himself but didnt just revoke his protecting of Job.. he actively handed him over to Satan.

 

[Hellblade8]

True, God didnt do it himself but didnt just revoke his protecting of Job.. he actively handed him over to Satan.

Um, yeah He was handing Job over in the manner that He no longer gave Job protection.

 

[Enmos]

Um, yeah He was handing Job over in the manner that He no longer gave Job protection.

Handing over someone and refusing protection to someone are two different things in my book. But nevermind.