Proof that the Christian god cannot exist

No. But Yahweh's family wasn't on the chopping block, and again, you and Yahweh are two different people. Yahweh is a god, you are a mortal. What He can do and what you can do are very different.

That is irrelevant and utterly pointless. With stories such as Job, we are left with witnessing the cruelty of a god who cares more about making a point, which was predestined to begin with, than he does about his humans. In fact, he allows their death in the making.

No He didn't. He just didn't get involved.

Yes, he did. He was COMPLETELY involved.

Actually the moral of the story is just because someone is having a bad life it doesn't mean that God is the one doing it or pouring His divine justice upon said person.

That's the whole point of the story.

That's one interpretation, perhaps yours. But, the author, who is unknown, was more concerned about showing that god is present in people's lives. Unfortunately, the story comes out with a different conclusion, that of the just of a god, or lack thereof.
 
Well God seems to be intimidating Job, but i dont know the full story.

First Yahweh appears and demands why Job (when he finally breaks) dares to question His wisdom with his own. He goes on to demanding answers from Job on where he was when the world was made, how the world works, and the like. Its a good point to note that issueing a challenge to Yahweh in OT times was typically a bad idea. Just ask the Egyptians.
 
what I mean to say is that temptation to do sin as we know it will be eliminated. I'm not sure how or what the result will be, but free choice is still existant to angels so thus its likely so for humans. Things like lust are not actually part of use anymore, because we will no longer need it. Lust is part of the reproduction cycle, and thus is needed, as angels do not marry, we will have no need of it.

So, right now we 'need' lust? In saying I can only question the following:

"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell."

Seemingly mankind now goes to hell because he does that which he cannot help but do, something you state is "needed". Kindly explain where the 'choice' is in such an instance. Thank you.

Furthermore, this doesn't actually answer the question of my post - which is why create that temptation in the first place when you could just create a heavenly realm with people that don't have that temptation?

its that we are so worried about it more than He deems it needs

All due respect, but who is the "we"? I do not personally worry about getting turned on by looking at a beautiful woman, eating shellfish, wearing clothes of two different materials or anything else god doesn't personally like.

He thinks we focus too much on our own pleasure and not worry enough about what's really important in life.

What's that then? Kindly explain what's really important in life.

You try to compete fair and square, and thus you are correct in your approach to it.

Not according to the biblical passage I quoted, where even looking at this woman with lust is equally sinful. The bible is wrong, is that what you're saying?

Because He want's people to have a choice in making their life. The selfish and evil people shall burn in hell and the good people shall ascend to heaven.

Not an answer to what I am asking. Why bother making earth and people in the first place when he knows that the majority of people he makes will burn? Why not, when devising creation, just create a heavenly realm and beings that aren't tempted, or need to sin?

You say choice here but have argued against it yourself. If lust is essential, which it is, what choice does one have in the matter other than none?

then man was created without sin and he made a stupid choice and screwed the rest of us over

That same part of the bible informs us that this man had no understanding of good or evil. Without those two essential things how could he ever have made an informed choice? Is god good or evil? Is the snake good or evil? Without knowledge of good or evil how would you know?

The CC's version of afterlife events are somewhat flawed. Hell had existed before Jesus came about and it wasn't forever, it was only until those who had commited horrible acts had learned their lesson. Jesus's purpose was to reunite those who lived in Limbo with the Father.

This doesn't detract from anything I said - namely that people will burn, (you agreed earlier), and that the only plausible explanation is that he wants them to because otherwise he could have just made a heavenly realm with people with no desire or temptation to sin and the ability to make a choice with a clear mind etc and so on. Instead he set up this existence knowing full well that the majority of beings in that existence would burn - a choice they don't have. I didn't ask to be born and I cannot help but lust after a beautiful woman. It is essential to genetic survival.. So I'm going to burn because my genes are the way they are?
 
First Yahweh appears and demands why Job (when he finally breaks) dares to question His wisdom with his own. He goes on to demanding answers from Job on where he was when the world was made, how the world works, and the like. Its a good point to note that issueing a challenge to Yahweh in OT times was typically a bad idea. Just ask the Egyptians.

Ok i get it, but it seems so ungodly to state the questions as he did. Almost arrogant, if a God can be arrogant..
 
That is irrelevant and utterly pointless. With stories such as Job, we are left with witnessing the cruelty of a god who cares more about making a point, which was predestined to begin with, than he does about his humans. In fact, he allows their death in the making.

Ah yes, and lets ignore the rest of the bible, because Lord knows He never did anything nice...



Yes, he did. He was COMPLETELY involved.

He did nothing to Job. Please tell me how you can pin it on Him when He did not do anything?

That's one interpretation, perhaps yours. But, the author, who is unknown, was more concerned about showing that god is present in people's lives. Unfortunately, the story comes out with a different conclusion, that of the just of a god, or lack thereof.

Really? Then I suppose that explains how Job was considered one of the most noble and good people in the land and was blessed beyond the dreams of most other men. And this might sound somewhat arrogant, but I'm sure my pastors and other bible experts understand the meaning of the story a little more than you do.
 
Ok i get it, but it seems so ungodly to state the questions as he did. Almost arrogant, if a God can be arrogant..

Perhaps it sounded a bit arrogant, but Yahweh was angry and demanding how dare someone who understands so little challenge their creator, in which He then proceeded to siege him with questions on what he actually understands compared to Him. Needless to say, Job backed down and apologized for his harsh words.
 
Perhaps it sounded a bit arrogant, but Yahweh was angry and demanding how dare someone who understands so little challenge their creator, in which He then proceeded to siege him with questions on what he actually understands compared to Him. Needless to say, Job backed down and apologized for his harsh words.

Temper, temper lol
 
Ah yes, and lets ignore the rest of the bible, because Lord knows He never did anything nice...

If memory serves correct, the body count in the bible is:

God: 32.9 Million
Satan: 10

He did nothing to Job. Please tell me how you can pin it on Him when He did not do anything?

You said it yourself, he removed his protections. He allowed and condoned Satan to do whatever he wanted. That's known as participation. He was every bit as guilty as Satan.

Really? Then I suppose that explains how Job was considered one of the most noble and good people in the land and was blessed beyond the dreams of most other men.

What does that prove?

And this might sound somewhat arrogant, but I'm sure my pastors and other bible experts understand the meaning of the story a little more than you do.

Ah, an appeal to authority. Surely, since you have your interpretation, most likely based on your pastor, it couldn't possibly be wrong or open to other interpretations.
 
I am however bothered by something Snakelord came up with.
Why did he even create mankind with free will, if he knew beforehand that at the very least some are going to burn in hell for their sins.
Why not make a happy world with no sins, does he like us doing sins and then throwing us into the fires of hell ?
The way i see it there are three possibilities:
1.) He likes to see humans burn in hell
2.) He doesnt care if humans burn in hell
3.) God was unable to make humankind without sin.

Actually there is a forth; God didnt create us at all.
 
The way i see it there are three possibilities:
1.) He likes to see humans burn in hell
2.) He doesnt care if humans burn in hell
3.) He's doing somesort of experiment to see how many humans will burn in hell given they have free will.

Actually there is a forth; God didnt create us at all.

Fifth - gods don't exist and men came up with those concepts. ;)
 
I am however bothered by something Snakelord came up with.
Why did he even create mankind with free will, if he knew beforehand that at the very least some are going to burn in hell for their sins.
Why not make a happy world with no sins, does he like us doing sins and then throwing us into the fires of hell ?
The way i see it there are three possibilities:
1.) He likes to see humans burn in hell
2.) He doesnt care if humans burn in hell
3.) God was unable to make humankind without sin.

Actually there is a forth; God didnt create us at all.

I thought the forth was "Go forth and multiply"?:confused:
 
So, right now we 'need' lust? In saying I can only question the following:

"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell."

Seemingly mankind now goes to hell because he does that which he cannot help but do, something you state is "needed". Kindly explain where the 'choice' is in such an instance. Thank you.

Having lust is not bad, or should I say sexual desire? Yes, that's more accurate than per say lust. Also, Jesus was saying that looking upon a woman lustfully is a sin because it shows *only* sexual desire, something that Yahweh does not approve of. Yahweh demands that there be love in a relationship as well as one being commited to the children it creates, and thus marriage is a requirment.

I really need to learn to express myself better.:(

Furthermore, this doesn't actually answer the question of my post - which is why create that temptation in the first place when you could just create a heavenly realm with people that don't have that temptation?

*shrug*

I'm not really sure. Genesis was supposedely made to explain that, but I wouldn't trust that book at term of accurate explination as to the origion of man. Perhaps Earth was meant to be God's garden and when humans started to sin it pissed Yahweh off?

All due respect, but who is the "we"? I do not personally worry about getting turned on by looking at a beautiful woman, eating shellfish, wearing clothes of two different materials or anything else god doesn't personally like.

Um, aside from looking at women, those aren't sins, Jesus dispelled that when He stated that nothing from the outside can make you unholy, only that from the inside, from a man's heart can make him unholy.

What's that then? Kindly explain what's really important in life.

Leading a happy life and living in the light of God.

This would include being kind to others who do not deserve it, showing mercy and compassion and all that other wonderful stuff in NT.

Not according to the biblical passage I quoted, where even looking at this woman with lust is equally sinful. The bible is wrong, is that what you're saying?

Excuse me, I meant sexual desire is not wrong. Lust is an intense sexual desire, and taken with the quote, Jesus is saying it is wrong to look upon a woman with only sex in mind.

Not an answer to what I am asking. Why bother making earth and people in the first place when he knows that the majority of people he makes will burn? Why not, when devising creation, just create a heavenly realm and beings that aren't tempted, or need to sin?

Wait, why would the majority of the people burn in hell? And you do realise its not forever right?

You say choice here but have argued against it yourself. If lust is essential, which it is, what choice does one have in the matter other than none?

I corrected that mistake as above.

That same part of the bible informs us that this man had no understanding of good or evil. Without those two essential things how could he ever have made an informed choice? Is god good or evil? Is the snake good or evil? Without knowledge of good or evil how would you know?

Again, I don't really take Genesis as the true story of creation.

This doesn't detract from anything I said - namely that people will burn, (you agreed earlier), and that the only plausible explanation is that he wants them to because otherwise he could have just made a heavenly realm with people with no desire or temptation to sin and the ability to make a choice with a clear mind etc and so on. Instead he set up this existence knowing full well that the majority of beings in that existence would burn - a choice they don't have. I didn't ask to be born and I cannot help but lust after a beautiful woman. It is essential to genetic survival.. So I'm going to burn because my genes are the way they are?

1) Again, I have no idea, I am not Yahweh, and other than a few one liners, He never fully explained why He wanted to create us. Perhaps He just likes to create things?

2) You sorta got it, the mistakes have been corrected via my other answers above. Though in most part your mistakes are based off of my failure to explain myself.:(
 
So I don't have a choice not to have eternal life?
Hmmm, good question, possibly, I just know you don't have a choice in being judged.

So, if I don't get the choice to not have eternal existence, what is the point in all of the decisions I make in my supposed free-will between now and then? They are negated by that one act - the denial of non-existence...
 
If memory serves correct, the body count in the bible is:

God: 32.9 Million
Satan: 10

And?



You said it yourself, he removed his protections. He allowed and condoned Satan to do whatever he wanted. That's known as participation. He was every bit as guilty as Satan.

I disagree. Satan isn't some theif and Yahweh a guard. Yahweh offers protection from Satan while upholding everything that exists, one might think that you should be thankful for such protections and again, has Job ever paid Yahweh?

Really, how do you expect to pay a god anything? Yahweh offers His protections for free to every man and woman. How about you?

What does that prove?

That the story wasn't about Yahweh and a persons daily life.

Ah, an appeal to authority. Surely, since you have your interpretation, most likely based on your pastor, it couldn't possibly be wrong or open to other interpretations.

I never said that. I've read it myself and came to that same conclusion before I even met my current pastor and beforehand, I had never paid enough attention to religion when it was taught. There are many interpretations, and if you chose that as a way to interpet what the story is about then fine, but don't claim it to be what the author thought to write as there isn't much of a basis for that. In fact, the very fact that the story focuses on someone who is considered extradionary to most humans and the circumstance of the events makes it very unusual compared to what you claim to be a story about how God is present in people's lives. Related in a distant way, but not in the way you present. Its a story of how God doesn't just smite people here and there for doing something wrong. It means that just because someone is having a hard life, God does not hate you. If someone cheats on you, it's not God's fault. It also serves as a way for God to inform Job that He owes the world nothing for He has given them everything and He has every right to take it away, since He owns it.
 
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