wesmorris:
That because both exist within the universe. Again, no universe -> nothing in which to create as far as we could know. Certainly we could hypothesize around the circumstance, but as I've mentioned... that's conjecture. Further, since we can't be outside of the universe to see what's going on... we cannot verify what could be out there in non-space. (not at this time at least)
I've explained it better before. But He may not be the physical we think or may speculate He is. We cannot exist without Him. We are His children just as perhaps 0 or -1 is the birther of .123. A positive cannot exist without a negative because the - is the birther of the +. He is part of the same system but came before us. Maybe I'm odd, but I relate it all to math. You see the universe in my eyes and it's all numbers. I see concrete data which simplifies the seemingly random things going on. Objects represented by numbers. Objects interacting, ie, atoms, molecules, objects and being added, subtracted, multiplied, divideded, etc as certain reactions going on in the universe. You bump into me, I see force being subtracted or added by weight and logic going on in the head saying, 'excuse me', or why someone says this and that on the interaction and other causes and effects of the interaction, etc. The universe can all be simplified to numbers, beautiful numbers. Numbers are logic, logic is a base of rules, and the universe has it's rules of interaction of objects and so does God abide by those rules because He created them. God is not random, He doesn't like random. Random is chaos, rebellion, that which doesn't adhere to logic. But yet even random to us is logic to God. He is the ultimate mathematician.
wesmorris:
Which is IMO, somewhat blasphemous - a mockery of faith. Perhaps I'm incorrect, but it seems to me that if one truly respected their "god", they would NOT indulge in attempts to define it within the paultry limitations of logic. IMO, true reverance and faith demands absolute subjegation, which if in the name of love or perhaps something I haven't thought of, I can respect.
I don't see it as that, I believe it is normal to wonder the makeup of God and yourself. I discovered God through science and it sure hasn't let me down so far. Yes, at one time, I wondered the same, if it was wrong to wonder the makeup of God. Perhaps I used to feel ashamed of it but lately I've gotten to know God more personally and don't feel a bit ashamed if it helps to explain others how I see it and so others can have the same peace of mind I have. It is the way of the universe, the truth if I knew God's makeup for sure, you can't deny it. It's like being a surgeon. I'm grossed out by blood and all but if I was going to be a surgeon, I'd get used to it. The initial guilty feeling is seeing the workings of someone and the truth right in your face, the ugly truth on how someone works and you also see how it can be made to not work and it's shortcomings. The in-your-face truth can be harsh but can bring a more personal attachment to that person/being in which you are studying in that you see/feel the pain/worry in the subject. And the wrong partly stems from the human body having guilt in which you have that power to know how something or someone works and be made not to work and the power that comes with it, the insecurity of knowing if you can handle it. Beleive you me, God is the father of logic. Logic is the way to Him. Logic is the gift He gave us to be able to find Him. Everyone finds God by logic or by what makes sense to us. Animals don't worship God because they haven't the logical ability to theorize beyond the realm of what it is experiencing. It can be used or abused and there is a fine line in between and one must be careful not to over-run it. But all in all, God is numbers, or logic and also the scribe for which logic is wrote on. Every number has to have an object associated with it. If we just add numbers, as in a math class, that is just immaterial numbers. God is a complete being of numbers, ie, the variables involved in any movement, and He is the object, the carrier or association of the numbers. He is the Father of every movement/variable in the universe and the Father of every object and we are created in His likeness. But I understand all your points, been in your shoes, so don't worry about me blasphemy'ing. It is said God's face will cause such dread on the living who see Him as they cannot bear it. The truth of Him just smacks you in the face and you realize, He is right, there is a God, what have I done? It is torture not many men can bare but when I discovered God, I wasn't happy at all. I was in a 2 year long depression of what I had discovered. I'd become solitary, even more than I was before. As they say, be careful what you ask for because you might just get it. And that's what happened. The truth came to me as a slap in the face. I discovered too much of who God is and I asked for it and longed for it. God warned me because it is a heavy burden. To do because you know than to do because you believe. Just like when your parents tell you do this or that because it is right and you don't believe them. Then you grow up and realize they were right. And you have to do not what you believe is right but what you know is right, it becomes a burden. And this is the end times. Better to believe me now rather than have to know later when He comes, or else it will be a huge burden.
Huwy:
So people don't have to suffer painfully and die from terminal illness. So people can have quality of life, and life which is not cut short.
Yes, I know. Of course, cancer isn't good. But trying to make you think ahead.
Wtf are you talking about "non-existant entity's beliefs"?
I mean, an atheist's anti-God, whatever you want to call him, a non-existant entity. The rest is pretty much your theoretical ideals on life so I won't comment. That's your beliefs/opinions. It's pretty much entrapment or a catch-22 situation to theists here on the forums sometimes. Usually it's atheists questioning us and that leads us into more discussion and then when we keep discussing and answering questions, some rant at us for answering. What good is the discussion board if we don't discuss religion. And what is religion? Theorized belief, a hypothesis at times maybe. So nothing is 100% proven when we're speaking of it. It seems to be atheists entrap us to ask questions just to try to tear us down. What if this board was all atheists. What would we discuss. "Uh, so like, I believe in no God but my own made up rules", and "and..uh,...yeah....,me too". What fun would it be if we couldn't have a healthy debate? And btw, I do enjoy the debates here as long as it's mature commentary and non-inflammatory. But when we discuss of God, it's pretty safe to say we can call it all beliefs to most, even to atheists who believe in the lack thereof. If you believe aliens/ghosts/bigfoot doesn't exist, it's a belief. You can't disprove it. A negative can't be disproven unless it has a positor to prove it doesn't exist which in that case would wind up proving it exists. So all these arguments to say God doesn't exist is useless. The positor to God will come soon to prove He exists, I am sure about that. Just as time/space differs from the perspective of the viewer, so can other things/thoughts/experiences vary in time/space. So what others take for knowing, some may see as believing. You heard from so and so who said this and that. The one who heard knows, you can only believe because it was told in a different time/space before you were there or in another space from which you couldn't observe the happening. Just as God created the heavens and earth before we were here, we can only take it for, at the very least, belief. I see a ball rolling down the hall, it must've started from somewhere to get there, but I see no one. Some motion had to have set it off in another time, possibly seconds before I observed it. I will hypothesize it was someone who done it, who started the initial 'thump' to get the ball rolling. That is the way I see it. God is in the same time continuum just as the person who rolled the ball but just in an unobservable space. Or the person could've been in the hall at the time the ball initially rolled but I was in a different space/time too late to observe it as where I am now. So no one can say God doesn't exist.
