Proof that the Christian god cannot exist

[Godless]

Why should we believe there is life on other planets if we don't have evidence of any?? That is optimistic at best.

The FACT of the matter that you so carelessly overlook is that there is evidence. Earth is a planet that contains life. This is evidence that that life exists in this universe! WE are it. What we stipulate, that since life developed here on this planet, is that there is life in other planets as well. Our awareness of these other existents is only limited by our knowledge. That is we don't know jack! compared to other civilizations that perhaps are billions of years more advanced then us. We are a primitive civilization that still believe in mystical notions such as gods, devils and ghosts, we are uncivilized for our continuation of wars, human tourture and mayham. We are lacking in technological means and advancement, largely blamed on our mysticism.

Imagine if you will that some nut today believed to be Jesus? He would be considered a lunatic. Now go back a few thousand years, and hey! he is lord!. Now imagine if you will; That Jesus were born 2000 years ago, but his civilization was as advanced as early 20th century. With automobiles and primitive airplanes. Do you think these people would have thought of him, as some kind of messiah? No! he would be considered a nut. What I'm trying to convey here to you, is that in Jesus's time, the human race was very mystical, were very ingnorant about nature and existence. The more knowledge a civilization aquires the further away from mystical notions it gets!. And that's a fact.

Godless

 

[c7ityi_]

We are lacking in technological means and advancement, largely blamed on our mysticism.

What do you mean by "lacking"? What more technology do we need? In my opinion, we wouldn't need the technology we have today, most of it is pointless.

Humans don't know what drives them. They keep their bodies merely to satisfy the flesh. They're worthless, don't you think? That's what all mankind is.

No! he would be considered a nut.

What people think is irrelevant in front of the truth. If Jesus returned today, he wouldn't talk to people the same way he did when he was here last time. He wouldn't talk about "God". He was talking about the self when he talked about "God". But I doubt Jesus has a reason to come back, he already showed us the way and now we can handle the rest on our own.

There is only one truth. God.

Yes.

Me.

 

[jayleew]

The FACT of the matter that you so carelessly overlook is that there is evidence. Earth is a planet that contains life. This is evidence that that life exists in this universe! WE are it. What we stipulate, that since life developed here on this planet, is that there is life in other planets as well. Our awareness of these other existents is only limited by our knowledge. That is we don't know jack! compared to other civilizations that perhaps are billions of years more advanced then us. We are a primitive civilization that still believe in mystical notions such as gods, devils and ghosts, we are uncivilized for our continuation of wars, human tourture and mayham. We are lacking in technological means and advancement, largely blamed on our mysticism.

You are hasty and grabbing for a rebuttal because you are starting to mudsling.

You are getting to the point of the matter.

Here is the first argument: There is life on this planet, so the universe can create life. No problems with that logic. You can even speculate that life can be elsewhere.

Now, the second argument: Energy and matter are infinitely old. The universe can create life. So, there is an infinite number of lifeforms and hospitible planets across the wide universe, that are infinitely old civilizations, infinitely older or newer than ours. Fine, it is logical, right?

Now, the third argument: In the absence of evidence, every possibility has an equal chance of being true. There is no evidence of ETs. So, the chance of ETs existing are less than one and approaching zero.

This third argument conflicts with the second argument. This makes the second argument invalid. Only the first and third arguments are true, which questions the premises of the second argument. The first premise of the second argument is true, so it is the second premise of the second argument that is false.

Unless we find some evidence of life elsewhere, then energy and matter are not infinitely old. Science assumes nothing, and if we are scientific about the matter, we would not assume that life exists elsewhere just because of the first argument.

Imagine if you will that some nut today believed to be Jesus? He would be considered a lunatic. Now go back a few thousand years, and hey! he is lord!. Now imagine if you will; That Jesus were born 2000 years ago, but his civilization was as advanced as early 20th century. With automobiles and primitive airplanes. Do you think these people would have thought of him, as some kind of messiah? No! he would be considered a nut. What I'm trying to convey here to you, is that in Jesus's time, the human race was very mystical, were very ingnorant about nature and existence. The more knowledge a civilization aquires the further away from mystical notions it gets!. And that's a fact.

Godless

The Jews believed that Jesus was the Messiah? I guess that's why they killed him. Your argument that in Jesus's time the human race was very mystical is not true with thoses premises. On the contrary, the most scholarly thought Jesus was a blasphemous dog.

You have not provided any evidence that the more knowledgable a civilization aquires, the further away from mystical notions it gets. On the contrary, we as a people, are still mystical. Whether it is astrology, wicca, or God. We are no less mystical of a civilization than 2000 years ago. People are fascinated by the spiritual no less than before. John Edwards and Sylvia Brown are two people who capatalize on that. It is also what sells those tabloids.

But, what does this have to do with what we are talking about?

 

[Sarkus]

Here is the first argument: There is life on this planet, so the universe can create life. No problems with that logic. You can even speculate that life can be elsewhere.

Now, the second argument: Energy and matter are infinitely old. The universe can create life. So, there is an infinite number of lifeforms and hospitible planets across the wide universe, that are infinitely old civilizations, infinitely older or newer than ours. Fine, it is logical, right?

Now, the third argument: In the absence of evidence, every possibility has an equal chance of being true. There is no evidence of ETs. So, the chance of ETs existing are less than one and approaching zero.

Your conclusion of this "third argument" is flawed....

I agree that in the absence of evidence, every possibility is equally likely.
And I agree that we have no evidence of ETs.

Now in that absence of evidence, what are all the possibilities?
In my mind, the possibilities range from "a complete lack of other life in the Universe", all the way to "Lifeforms on every planet we haven't seen" - and the range of life-forms range from one-celled animals all the way to gaseous life-forms and an infinite number of other life-forms.

Of all these infinite possibilities - only ONE possibility states: "no life-forms anywhere else in the Universe!"

So the chance of this being true is 1/infinity = ZERO!!
So the logical conclusion to reach is: "There IS some form of life on some planet somewhere else in the Universe.".


But that's only if you follow the logical thinking that you have begun above.

However, I also think that the initial statements are erroneous.
The first argument is only true in the ABSOLUTE LACK OF EVIDENCE.
The second argument is misleading - as ET is just another name for a lifeform that happens to reside not on Earth.
We DO have evidence of life-forms.
We DO have evidence of the conditions in much of the Universe.
We Do have far more evidence than "the absolute lack of evidence" so as to negate the use of the first argument to reach a logical conclusion in this instance.

 

[jayleew]

Your conclusion of this "third argument" is flawed....

I agree that in the absence of evidence, every possibility is equally likely.
And I agree that we have no evidence of ETs.

Now in that absence of evidence, what are all the possibilities?
In my mind, the possibilities range from "a complete lack of other life in the Universe", all the way to "Lifeforms on every planet we haven't seen" - and the range of life-forms range from one-celled animals all the way to gaseous life-forms and an infinite number of other life-forms.

Good point. There are only two possibilities. There is life, or there is not life. In the absence of evidence. I guess that would be 50/50.

But that's only if you follow the logical thinking that you have begun above.

We DO have evidence of life-forms.
We DO have evidence of the conditions in much of the Universe.
We Do have far more evidence than "the absolute lack of evidence" so as to negate the use of the first argument to reach a logical conclusion in this instance.

Call the press if you believe we found life. Please provide references to anything that is not common knowledge.

 

[Godless]

What do you mean by "lacking"? What more technology do we need? In my opinion, we wouldn't need the technology we have today, most of it is pointless.

Then sell your fucking computer!

Humans don't know what drives them. They keep their bodies merely to satisfy the flesh. They're worthless, don't you think? That's what all mankind is.

More christian teaching?

What people think is irrelevant in front of the truth.

What truth?
That humans are worthless, your life is meaningless, are these the truths tought to you by christians? No wonder they are pathetical.

You are hasty and grabbing for a rebuttal because you are starting to mudsling.

What mudslinging? That you display here your ingnorance for others to judge you by?. That mudslinging?.

But I doubt Jesus has a reason to come back, he already showed us the way and now we can handle the rest on our own.

I seriously doubt that your Jesus even existed. There's no evidence of his existence, other than an ancient fables written by nomads. There were many Jesus in jesus' time click

Now, the third argument: In the absence of evidence, every possibility has an equal chance of being true. There is no evidence of ETs. So, the chance of ETs existing are less than one and approaching zero.

Now Ta teach a lesson in logic: In the absesnce of evidence, every possibility has an equal chance of being true. there is no evidence of GOD. So, the chance of GOD existing are less than one and approaching ZERO!

Unless we find some evidence of life elsewhere, then energy and matter are not infinitely old. Science assumes nothing, and if we are scientific about the matter, we would not assume that life exists elsewhere just because of the first argument.

Unless we find some evidence of god somewhere, then energy and matter are infinitely old. Science assumes nothing, and if we are scientific about the matter, we would not assume that god exists elsewhere just because theist claim and make assumptions of this argument!.

The Jews believed that Jesus was the Messiah?

Which one, there were many read the link!

You have not provided any evidence that the more knowledgable a civilization aquires, the further away from mystical notions it gets.

Evidence? Are you that densed? We are not burning people cause some one believe them to be witches. There's nos such thing as hanging or beheading a person for not agreeing with your views of god. These are just a small example of your religions humble but misserable beginings! Today I can be an atheist, and not be treated like a criminal, I can speak against the church, or any religious leader, and not arrested. These are my evidence that life has been geting better, because of secularization. Scientists are free to discover new uses for matter, like the computer in front of you, without being called heretics, doctors can cure with medicine without being called witches. Seriously can you be that densed?

On the contrary, we as a people, are still mystical. Whether it is astrology, wicca, or God. We are no less mystical of a civilization than 2000 years ago.

This statement is not entirely true! You assume because you yourself are mystical, but I hate to burst your buble; most see the tabloids as Bull Shit. They buy into it as a form of entertainment. And yes there's still lots of people like yourself, that believe any bull shit, that some mystical jack ass pulls out of his ass, like some freak who walked on water, stoped the sun from coming down, or parted the Red Sea, then after the preacher you listen to tells ya all this BS, he asks you for money!!. Most of his congregation are poor as hell, like in South America, but the asshole lives in a fine house & drives a luxury car, all paid for by the gullibility of mystics like yourself, who basically have no clue that they are being taken!.

Godless

 

[jayleew]

Now Ta teach a lesson in logic: In the absesnce of evidence, every possibility has an equal chance of being true. there is no evidence of GOD. So, the chance of GOD existing are less than one and approaching ZERO!

That is good enough logic for anyone who does not have evidence. My life's experiences are evidence. Although, I cannot submit a journal because I did not take it down. So, there is no evidence for the existence of a god.

Unless we find some evidence of god somewhere, then energy and matter are infinitely old. Science assumes nothing, and if we are scientific about the matter, we would not assume that god exists elsewhere just because theist claim and make assumptions of this argument!.

Fair enough, but we're not following the thread at the moment. We're talking about energy and the illogical argument which is that it always existed.

Which one [Jews], there were many read the link!

The question I posed was rhetorical. Most of the Jews did not believe that Jesus was the Messiah.

Evidence? Are you that densed? We are not burning people cause some one believe them to be witches. There's nos such thing as hanging or beheading a person for not agreeing with your views of god. These are just a small example of your religions humble but misserable beginings! Today I can be an atheist, and not be treated like a criminal, I can speak against the church, or any religious leader, and not arrested. These are my evidence that life has been geting better, because of secularization. Scientists are free to discover new uses for matter, like the computer in front of you, without being called heretics, doctors can cure with medicine without being called witches. Seriously can you be that densed?

Don't be so hasty with your perception and call me dense. Perhaps we are miscommunicating.

Just because mysticism is not socially accepted, doesn't mean that there is not the same amount of people who still believe in the mystical, supersticious, and spiritual. IMO, we are no different as far as our mystical beliefs than 2000 years ago. It is now not socially acceptable behavior, but as far as a civilization, we have not changed much...if at all.

This statement is not entirely true! You assume because you yourself are mystical, but I hate to burst your buble; most see the tabloids as Bull Shit. They buy into it as a form of entertainment. And yes there's still lots of people like yourself, that believe any bull shit, that some mystical jack ass pulls out of his ass, like some freak who walked on water, stoped the sun from coming down, or parted the Red Sea, then after the preacher you listen to tells ya all this BS, he asks you for money!!. Most of his congregation are poor as hell, like in South America, but the asshole lives in a fine house & drives a luxury car, all paid for by the gullibility of mystics like yourself, who basically have no clue that they are being taken!.

Godless

I hope that most people see the tabloids as BS, and IMO most people do. But, that is just one small example. A larger example is the religious and supersticious. Millions are sucked into John Edwards, Sylvia Brown, and other television shows that talk about ghosts and goblins. There are witches, occult, and all sorts of nut jobs. A gallup poll in 2001 showed that 95% of Americans believe in God. Combined with the other mystics, more than 95% of the population are mystical. I'd say that we are pretty much the same as 2000 years ago, but socially acceptable behavior contains much of the mystical practices of sacrifice and beheadings. But, make no mistake, they still occur today.

 

[c7ityi_]

Then sell your fucking computer!

Impossible, I'm a human and I like computers.

More christian teaching?

No. Don't defile the name of Christ by calling me a Christian.

What truth?

Truth can't be destroyed by people's words. If Christ was born on earth today and people would call him a lunatic, it wouldn't matter if he really WAS Christ.

Not everyone who calls himself "Christian" IS a true Christian (follower of Christ) There are many who say that they follow God, but they follow satan. Truth is not affected by what people say.

I seriously doubt that your Jesus even existed. There's no evidence of his existence, other than an ancient fables written by nomads. There were many Jesus in jesus' time click

Whether he "existed" or not is pretty irrelevant. The important is that Christ, the higher self, is a psychological truth. Christ has been on earth many times, in many forms. The New Testament is partly based on the life of Jesus.

Because people are earthly, they can only understand earthly things, so they think the stories in the Bible are not true. Of course they are ridiculous if you watch from an earthly perspective.

 

[Mythbuster]

What is brainwash? I assume you mean the literal acception of knowledge. Well, each child has to literally learn and accept what is being tought. How can there otherwise be a start for knowledge? We're all brainwashed. Teach a toddler that an apple is called a banana and so be it.

The human brain is capable of things we have yet to properly study simply because we do not possess the means to do so. Though there is extensive work being done on the human brain every day around the world, there are still many unanwered questions about how it works and why. One thing we do know however, is that the brain is perfectly capable of burrowing beliefs and biases into your subconscious and using them to make your day to day decisions.

One study I read about recently had to do with politics. When asked politically-related questions, most people thought for about 300 milliseconds before issueing a response. This suggests to most that there is little thought involved in answering the question at all, and that most of the answers that you or I may give have been stored away in our brains for quite some time. Only when you are inclined to do so yourself will you reevaluate your actual thoughts on the matter, increasing your response time and possibly rearranging those beliefs and biases buried deep in your head.

Where am I going with this? Well, it seems to me that this is also perfectly applicable to religious beliefs, where, if you notice, people are more than ready to respond whe you ask them the simple question, "Do you believe in God?"

The challenge here is to plant these premade ideas into someone's head so that their first impulse when asked certain questions is the one you want. Religion, as we all know, is very, very good at this. In many cases, a religious person has very little doubt in their faith thanks to these beliefs that have worked their way down into the depths of their minds. Because of this subconscious trigger, I believe overly religious people are "programmed" to respond in a way favorable to their respective faith. In order to plant this seed of blind faith different religions have different methods.

The Bible is an excellent example, and its purpose is entirely to teach the word of a god. The work is extensive and thorough, giving the reader something to reference for any given situation. If the Bible is studied extensively enough, I believe that these seeds are sewn, and that the hair trigger response to many questions will be found within its pages. This is why biblical quotes are so widespread, because they are applicable to nearly anything one can imagine depending on how the book itself is interpreted. This is where they made their mistake--they did not test their theories.

In a way, one could call this brainwashing, as predetermiend answers are intentionally planted in the subject's head, usually at a young age. Also, those who "find God" are typically in extreme situations, searching for a way to cope with their present situation and finding solace in the teachings of a religion. Where there were doubts and confusion before there is now confidence and certainty thanks to the ability to quickly respond to a question with what the subjects believes to be a valid answer. Whether this is a good or bad thing is subject to opinion.

The longer you take to respond, the more uncertain you are, and thus the more uncomfortable you may become with both the question and the person asking it. Religion gives you the foundation to rifle answers with hardly a thought, giving you confidence and clarity. Because the brain is put at ease, religion can be accepted as a perfectly lovely thing, and may even be not healthy for the mind. It depends on how you look at it.

From pure superstition to fear.

 

[Godless]

Whether he "existed" or not is pretty irrelevant. The important is that Christ, the higher self, is a psychological truth. Christ has been on earth many times, in many forms. The New Testament is partly based on the life of Jesus.

This is exactly why it is called myth.

Godless

 

[c7ityi_]

What people call it is irrelevant in front of the truth. Besides, "myth" doesn't necessarily mean false, it sometimes means half-true. The other half is just the part which people no longer have the brains to understand. Just because something SEEMS irrational doesn't mean it IS so. I've also seen the Bible through earthly eyes.

 

[Mythbuster]

What people call it is irrelevant in front of the truth. Besides, "myth" doesn't necessarily mean false, it sometimes means half-true. The other half is just the part which people no longer have the brains to understand. Just because something SEEMS irrational doesn't mean it IS so. I've also seen the Bible through earthly eyes.

You want Myth ? Ill give you Myths !

http://www.jcnot4me.com/images/Universe-2-web.gif
http://www.truechristian.com/confessionbooth.html
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v198/Roarey_Raccoon/biblewarninglabel4hz.jpg

 

[c7ityi_]

That's what religions look like from an earthly perspective. "They have eyes, but they don't see"

 

[Mythbuster]

"They have eyes, but they don't see"

leviathan seems to be a sea monster from the bible.

The monster was made by men when the time they tough that the earth was flat. And soon whe find out it was a:

 

[c7ityi_]

How do you know what the word leviathan means? That word is way too cool to be something "false". I've heard that leviathan often means serpent in the Bible. It's probably often not meant to be a physical creature.

And if it now has any significance, prophets knew that the earth was round. The sons of God also knew it over 30000 years ago.

 

[Mythbuster]

How do you know what the word leviathan means? That word is way too cool to be something "false". I've heard that leviathan often means serpent in the Bible. It's probably often not meant to be a physical creature.

And if it now has any significance, prophets knew that the earth was round. The sons of God also knew it over 30000 years ago.

Oh yeah and when Jesus went on the top of a mountain, and from it's top, he could see all the kingdom of planet Earth. This could ONLY occur if the Earth were small and flat. Think about it if the world were Round, he coudn't heve seen what's on the on the other side of the planet, regardless of how high the supposed mountain was. In fact, verses like this used to be used by the church to PROVE the earth is flash. If the bible is right about this mountain, then Columbus and NASA are WRONG about the earth being round.

http://www.jcnot4me.com/images/Universe-2-web.gif

 

[c7ityi_]

Oh yeah and when Jesus went on the top of a mountain, and from it's top, he could see all the kingdom of planet Earth. This could ONLY occur if the Earth were small and flat. Think about it if the world were Round, he coudn't heve seen what's on the on the other side of the planet, regardless of how high the supposed mountain was.

You only understand the physical, so you interpret everything from that angle. According to your interpretation, Jesus would have also had to have a pretty good "vision" to see ALL the kingdoms of the earth. But that's not how it was. Satan showed Jesus this in a vision.

He never was on a "mountain" (at least not a physical one), when he saw that vision. Jesus said: "Recognize what is before you, and what is hidden from you will be revealed to you; for there is nothing hidden that will not be made manifest."

In fact, verses like this used to be used by the church to PROVE the earth is flash.

How stupid of them. But whatever people say and do cannot change the truth. Not even 7 years in jail could take away the truth that Giordano Bruno knew. In vain they burned him. Galileo let them burn his writings because he knew that they could not burn the truth of God.

It's ironic. Like in the days of Jesus, those who call themselves followers of God are the followers of satan, and those who are hated and laughed at, are the ones who follow God.

 

[Katazia]

C7ityi –

You only understand the physical, so you interpret everything from that angle.

No one has ever shown there is anything else other than the physical so it makes no sense to make assertions from any other perspective.

How stupid of them. But whatever people say and do cannot change the truth. Not even 7 years in jail could take away the truth that Giordano Bruno knew. In vain they burned him. Galileo let them burn his writings because he knew that they could not burn the truth of God.

You are correct that those evil Christian acts cannot hide the truth that Christianity is an abomination.

Kat

 

[c7ityi_]

No one has ever shown there is anything else other than the physical so it makes no sense to make assertions from any other perspective.

No one has ever shown that there is anything other than the spiritual. Everything is in the mind.

You are correct that those evil Christian acts cannot hide the truth that Christianity is an abomination.

A Christian is someone who follows Christ. If someone who calls himself a Christian does evil, he is not a Christian; instead, he is the follower of satan, the father of lies.

"Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord," shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven." - Matthew 7:21

 

[TW Scott]

Oh yeah and when Jesus went on the top of a mountain, and from it's top, he could see all the kingdom of planet Earth. This could ONLY occur if the Earth were small and flat. Think about it if the world were Round, he coudn't heve seen what's on the on the other side of the planet, regardless of how high the supposed mountain was. In fact, verses like this used to be used by the church to PROVE the earth is flash. If the bible is right about this mountain, then Columbus and NASA are WRONG about the earth being round.

http://www.jcnot4me.com/images/Universe-2-web.gif

Small problem. You are thinking too literal. Jesus was not bound by our mortal perceptions. He probably decided to use his omniscience at that moment. That would negate the need for the earth to be flat.