Proof that the Christian god cannot exist

Kerry Shirts said:
On the Quantum level the idea of matter becomes ***very*** difficult, I will agree with you there.

it doesn't become difficult at all...
it's just hard to observe it...
but an atom behaves just like a solar system...
all particles have two magnetic poles and they rotate...

causes can't be seen...
the presence can't be seen...
the observer can't be seen...
that's why physicists will not find the truth...

they haven't found themselves yet...
they don't believe in themselves...
they don't know themselves...
they don't know that everything is made of the self...

matter is not physical...
because separation does not exist...

at quantum level...
matter behaves like the mind because it is...
 
matter is not physical...

If matter is not physical, why don't you speed a car to a wall, and if you survive, tell the cop it was not there. Matter is not physical!. :rolleyes:

Godless
 
godless...

it sounds like you equate physical with real...
physical only means: something separate from the self.

you have to go a bit deeper...
ask what electrons and quarks are made of...
you'll find that the world is made of nothing...
the self...

if a car drives to a wall, it breaks because it wants to...
it doesn't want to merge with the wall...
only the self is real...

electricity...
magnetic energy...
self...

separation is only mental...
 
Katazia said:
jayleew -

Popular belief is only evidence that the idea is popular not that it has any truth.

Kat

Please make sure that if you are going to join a conversation, to start from the beginning of the conversation. It was on page 30 or so, so not that much reading.

I agree with you. Now, the evidence I provided was evidence to counter a claim that we are somehow less mystical people than the Jews 2000 years ago. That reason has put away popular mystical ideas such as God, astrology, and the supernatural. The gallup poll only represents those that believe in God. There are other people who are mystical who do not.

Godless wanted to know why in the world people would even believe in God. I answered him, and that is where this conversation is stemming from.
 
c7ityi_,

I hate to butt in at this point and on about not the main topic, but I must say you are just speaking babble. I hear better things come from crackheads (no offense, was a joke).

c7ityi_ said:
it sounds like you equate physical with real...
physical only means: something separate from the self.
That's an opinionated fact to yourself. Saying something like that to Godless is preaching.
c7ityi_ said:
you have to go a bit deeper...
ask what electrons and quarks are made of...
you'll find that the world is made of nothing...
the self...
There is a theory that all subatomical particles are formed by energy, because we know matter and energy are the same thing. The theory goes that very small energy rings and strings came together to form quarks and electrons and et cetera. Now, it's just a theory, but what the word theory means is up to you.
c7ityi_ said:
if a car drives to a wall, it breaks because it wants to...
it doesn't want to merge with the wall...
only the self is real...
Are you smoking pot? You sound like a pot head. :m: The car is not alive, it does not "want" nor is it "alive." It breaks into the wall because it's atom versus atom, and the molecular structure of the car is opposing the molecular structure of the wall. One is bond to break, if not both. No, you're right, it doesn't want to "merge" with the wall, it happened due to the laws of the Universe.

c7ityi_ said:
electricity...
magnetic energy...
self...
Can you please stop overusing ellipsis? That just makes you less credible. :m:

c7ityi_ said:
separation is only mental...
You know what? I give up, give me some of that pot you got.


[Renrue]
 
Renrue; He aint got pot, he just hit a wall with his head, since his head didn't want to merge with the wall, it's a bit sore, and since it knocked the hell out of him, he sounds a bit high. ;)
 
Actaully, there are MANY physicists now who would argue the same thing c7ityi is saying, truly! Yes it's weird, but then Quantum is hardly normal! It has totally blown the walls outta the house and took the roof off. I have LOTS of references on this.
 
Stick around quantum is hardly the begining. The universe is infinite as big as it is infinite small. When were done figuring out part of quantum physics, there be something even smaller to talk about, and on, and on, and on....

Godless
 
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Renrue said:
That's an opinionated fact to yourself. Saying something like that to Godless is preaching.

but i read it in a dictionary...

There is a theory that all subatomical particles are formed by energy, because we know matter and energy are the same thing. The theory goes that very small energy rings and strings came together to form quarks and electrons and et cetera. Now, it's just a theory, but what the word theory means is up to you.

but no physicist knows what energy is... it's just an empty word... it cannot explain the stuff we see...

that's right... it's made of emptiness...

Are you smoking pot?

i don't know... i don't know what pot is...

The car is not alive, it does not "want" nor is it "alive."

yeah... but the atoms are alive... there is a will... otherwise the electrons would have no reason to spin around the nucleus... the world can only be explained if there is a deep will within matter... crystals form following certain mathematical laws... matter is solid... magnets have two poles... there is a will... like in humans, but they're not aware of anything...

and surely... everything must be alive... there can be no line... since we're made of atoms... and we're alive... it means that atoms are alive...

It breaks into the wall because it's atom versus atom, and the molecular structure of the car is opposing the molecular structure of the wall.

magnetic repulsion...

No, you're right, it doesn't want to "merge" with the wall, it happened due to the laws of the Universe.

yes... and why are the laws the way they are... it can only be explained by a deep unconscious will... nothingness... self... the only existence...

Can you please stop overusing ellipsis?

impossible... i don't know what ellipsis is...

You know what? I give up, give me some of that pot you got.

you can't unite with something outside you... you have to look inside... everything is inside you...
 
c7ityi_ said:
but i read it in a dictionary...
Christianity is also in the dictionary, but doesn't mean it's the facts of life.

c7ityi_ said:
but no physicist knows what energy is... it's just an empty word... it cannot explain the stuff we see...
Therefore, you cannot explain the stuff either. So maybe we should not talk. The self? Empty. Nothing? Empty. See? Empty. Why don't I play the same game with you.

c7ityi_ said:
that's right... it's made of emptiness...
1.
1. Holding or containing nothing.
2. Mathematics. Having no elements or members; null: an empty set.
2. Having no occupants or inhabitants; vacant: an empty chair; empty desert.
3. Lacking force or power: an empty threat.
4. Lacking purpose or substance; meaningless: an empty life.
5. Not put to use; idle: empty hours.
6. Needing nourishment; hungry: “More fierce and more inexorable far/Than empty tigers or the roaring sea” (Shakespeare).
7. Devoid; destitute: empty of pity.


If it's there, then it's not emptiness, or it would be null and we are too. Null cannot make. By your logic, we aren't here, but I'm sure I'm typing right now.

c7ityi_ said:
i don't know... i don't know what pot is...
Weed, reefer, marijuana.

c7ityi_ said:
yeah... but the atoms are alive...
We define "life" in biology as an organism that reproduces and consumes in order to sustain energy. Atoms do none of that; ego, they are not alive. Sure they move, but that's not life. Viruses move, but we don't consider them LIVING.

c7ityi_ said:
there is a will... otherwise the electrons would have no reason to spin around the nucleus... the world can only be explained if there is a deep will within matter...
will1 n. The mental faculty by which one deliberately chooses or decides upon a course of action.
They move alright, but it's not "WILL."

c7ityi_ said:
crystals form following certain mathematical laws... matter is solid... magnets have two poles... there is a will... like in humans, but they're not aware of anything...
Matter is also liquid, gaseous, and plasma. Just because they move doesn't mean it's alive, get over it.

c7ityi_ said:
and surely... everything must be alive... there can be no line... since we're made of atoms... and we're alive... it means that atoms are alive...
I don't think you understand the difference between life and movement. You're merely stating that if it moves, it is living. So, all you're doing is blahing nonsense that you made up yourself.

c7ityi_ said:
magnetic repulsion...
Laws of Universe makes the world go round and round.

c7ityi_ said:
yes... and why are the laws the way they are... it can only be explained by a deep unconscious will... nothingness... self... the only existence...
Just because we can't explain it doesn't mean you can make up answers. You don't even know, nay do I, but am I making up answers?

c7ityi_ said:
impossible... i don't know what ellipsis is...
ellipsis n. pl. A mark or series of marks (... or * * *, for example) used in writing or printing to indicate an omission, especially of letters or words.
Now you know.

c7ityi_ said:
you can't unite with something outside you... you have to look inside... everything is inside you...
Okay, everything is inside me. Meaning nothings outside. How are you here? If everythings in me, why do you exist? Shouldn't you be inside me? Why are there stuff outside? Why's this computer outside? Are my guts flying out?


[Renrue]
 
Renrue,

Hi and welcome to sciforums.

I wish you luck with C7's gibberish.
 
Godless,

The universe is infinite as big as it is infinite small.
Hmm, don't think either is necessarily or likely true. Infinite in time most probably, but its size could be finite and I don't think it is possible to become infinitely smaller, surely at some point one would dissapear.
 
Renrue said:
Therefore, you cannot explain the stuff either. So maybe we should not talk. The self? Empty. Nothing? Empty. See? Empty. Why don't I play the same game with you.

Words are not empty if you understand the things they are associated with. Definitions can be wrong.

If it's there, then it's not emptiness, or it would be null and we are too. Null cannot make. By your logic, we aren't here, but I'm sure I'm typing right now.

Nothingness is the only "thing" that can create. It's the only infinity. When you study this somethingness you'll find that it's actually nothingness. There is nothing other than the present, and present has no duration, so it is nothing.

You're sure you're typing because you don't know everything.

Weed, reefer, marijuana.

duendy says that it's ok to take drugs like LSD and marijuana and stuff but I've never taken.

We define "life" in biology as an organism that reproduces and consumes in order to sustain energy. Atoms do none of that; ego, they are not alive. Sure they move, but that's not life. Viruses move, but we don't consider them LIVING.

For me, viruses are living. Just because things don't reproduce and consume doesn't mean they're not alive. Everything is alive, to some degree.

will1 n. The mental faculty by which one deliberately chooses or decides upon a course of action.
They move alright, but it's not "WILL."

What moves them if not will then? That definition of "will" doesn't really matter. "Will" can be unconscious too. When the "self" (existence) is in a rock, it can't express itself as much as when it's in a plant, animal or human body. But rocks still hold themselves together.

Matter is also liquid, gaseous, and plasma. Just because they move doesn't mean it's alive, get over it.

Nothing is dead.

I don't think you understand the difference between life and movement. You're merely stating that if it moves, it is living.

That's right. What else would create movement if not "life" (the self)?

Laws of Universe makes the world go round and round.

What makes the laws of the universe the way they are? The self. It makes everything alive with its existence.

Just because we can't explain it doesn't mean you can make up answers. You don't even know, nay do I, but am I making up answers?

but i really know.

ellipsis n. pl. A mark or series of marks (... or * * *, for example) used in writing or printing to indicate an omission, especially of letters or words.
Now you know.

fun.

Okay, everything is inside me. Meaning nothings outside. How are you here? If everythings in me, why do you exist?

I'm you. The same self. The same existence. Just in a different body. Hence... I also appear to be different. But when we realize we're not the body... we'll all be alike and united.

Shouldn't you be inside me? Why are there stuff outside? Why's this computer outside? Are my guts flying out?

It's because you refuse to accept that they are inside you. You say: I am me, they are outside me. That way, you remain conscious. Without that feeling, you couldn't remain something, you would be nothing. You defend your person because you want to remain it, the same way, atoms also defend themselves from uniting with some other matter, but not consciously.

It's just mental. When you realize that there is only one self, you'll see that you're within everyone. Omnipresent. Just like God. Because that's what God is: the self.

You can't say: "things are outside me". Outside what? What is this "me"? If you think it's your body, then cut off your hand and it will appear to be outside you. So... you are not the body. You are the existence.
 
c7ityi_,

Somehow, I think you are just messing with me now. So, there is really no point in continuing. All your doing is just making me play along, while you type nonsense where it brings into an infinite loop of you going "everything is nothingness" or "once you realize..."

I see through your phoney scam. I saw it before, but was doubting whether you were playing or serious. Obvious now, I am the jackass that fell into the trap. :(


[Renrue]
 
c7,

Gibberish is what you don't understand.
Nope, gibberish is either something unintelligible, or in your case pretentious and needlessly obscure language.
 
Omniscient as defined by webster" having infinite awareness, understanding, and insight" You are Mistakenly taking the idea that if god knows everything, it means everythign is determined by god. If you're aware in advance that a war is going to break out tommaow does it mean you can do anything about it?
Then you step to the belief that we're doing what god sees we will do which means we're forced into what we will do. It makes soem sense if you think that god is Time. What is time? Anotehr field of space. Since god is time in a sense that everywhere and anywhere at once. God's seeing the world being born and being destroyed at teh same time. Also there's a thing with free-will. Everyone is predictable. There is a mistaken conclusion that free will equates to you ahve control over your will. No you don't you do as you feel and what you feel is sometimes not logicly what you think. And teh choice of either is proly free will as you see it. And based on you prior actions you'll do as you've done before depdant on the various variables of the situation. Read people and you'll udnerstand once you've read most people accuratly you can predict their action to a decent accuracy. Also there is some confusion on my part about how god is omni. To help clear this up i will restate. Go exist at all points and therefore knows and sees everything. Then it's a mistake to conclude that knowing equates power to change. i don't need to touch anything else i think..
 
Renrue said:
I saw it before, but was doubting whether you were playing or serious. Obvious now, I am the jackass that fell into the trap. :(

"Trap"? Strange. Somehow it feels like you're playing. But if you really think I was not serious, I can tell you that I was (although, just because I say so, doesn't mean it IS so... and this doesn't have to mean it is NOT so)
 
Viruses are living entities.

Chris:
*Hmm, don't think either is necessarily or likely true. Infinite in time most probably, but its size could be finite and I don't think it is possible to become infinitely smaller, surely at some point one would dissapear.*

The above was stated as a cliche, for the vast sice of the universe, and quantum dynamics...

Not literally infinite, which is a word that is sometimes not well understood.

Abstractly though infinitely large, and infinitely small exist.

Mythbuster; Hey! good definition of what god truly is. Time is god. I like that. NOT an entity but an existing phenomenon, the ever changing of always moving.

Godless
 
Mythbuster,

You are Mistakenly taking the idea that if god knows everything, it means everythign is determined by god.
It does if he planned it that way.

If you're aware in advance that a war is going to break out tommaow does it mean you can do anything about it?
Set off a chain reaction of nuclear bombs and destroy all the combatants before they fight?

Then you step to the belief that we're doing what god sees we will do which means we're forced into what we will do.
Depends if you see him as a dispassionate observer or merely checking that his plan is proceeding as determined.

It makes soem sense if you think that god is Time. What is time? Anotehr field of space. Since god is time in a sense that everywhere and anywhere at once. God's seeing the world being born and being destroyed at teh same time.
It is quite important that that idea is kept in mind since if he does have a plan and is interested in every detail then he has no need to proceed with the plan unless it is exactly what he wants and he can check all that at the instant of creation. What follows then must be perfectly pre-determined.

Also there's a thing with free-will. Everyone is predictable. There is a mistaken conclusion that free will equates to you ahve control over your will. No you don't you do as you feel and what you feel is sometimes not logicly what you think. And teh choice of either is proly free will as you see it. And based on you prior actions you'll do as you've done before depdant on the various variables of the situation.
You should probably think that through a little more carefully since it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

Read people and you'll udnerstand once you've read most people accuratly you can predict their action to a decent accuracy.
So how about the person who is to be born 5000 years from now, how accurately can you predict their actions?

Also there is some confusion on my part about how god is omni. To help clear this up i will restate. Go exist at all points and therefore knows and sees everything. Then it's a mistake to conclude that knowing equates power to change. i don't need to touch anything else i think.
You should make sure you understand the difference between knowing future events and seeing them – two very different conditions. And I don’t think your attempt at clarification actually clarified anything. I am now confused as to what you mean.
 
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