Proof that the Christian god cannot exist

[jayleew]

If you have a hard time believing that energy "always is, and always will be" then under what grounds can you state that a God is eternal? Also if you truly believe in the latter then you will need to explain to all of us as to what, How and when God was created?

Get real, if I knew that then that would mean that I could just create my own universe.

We don't understand God, it's possible that he was also created and actually not eternal, for all we know. That helps the Mormon's case, if it was true.

 

[jayleew]

The same as you. You base your belief that God does not exist on the faith of others. You have no evidence. No proof. You have nothing.

They have the theory of the origin of species which is based on the fact of evolution. Big hairy deal. Darwin's theory doesn't explain how life was created, just the origin of species. That is a common misconception.

 

[jayleew]

jay 7 -

God is an idea created by humans, or do you know something that no one else knows that would contradict that?

Kat

If I had kept a journal of my life's journey and shared it, it would be evidence of an external hand on my life; an infinite number of coincidences that have guided me in a single destiny, regardless of the waywardness of my choices (the more wayward, the more of life's trials experienced). God has mapped out a life for me that is abundant. It is up to me to choose to follow the map. I cannot deny his existence because it looks like, feels like, smells like, sounds like, etc God.

 

[Godless]

If I had kept a journal of my life's journey and shared it, it would be evidence of an external hand on my life; an infinite number of coincidences that have guided me in a single destiny, regardless of the waywardness of my choices (the more wayward, the more of life's trials experienced). God has mapped out a life for me that is abundant. It is up to me to choose to follow the map. I cannot deny his existence because it looks like, feels like, smells like, sounds like, etc God.

Jaylee I've basically posted much of my life on this forum, those that have been here awhile, know that I was a drug addict, crack cocain, weed, alcohol. Sex, Drugs & Rock&Roll. That was my lifestyle. I was a christian then also! Not a good one, I went to church seldom, and went through two nervous break-downs, How I regain myself, was through much reading of philosophy, psychology, and all sorts of books. After my second nervous breakdown, someone gave me a book to read. It was "Count of Monte Cristo" by Dumas, from there I continued reading and reading, Till I bought a novel By Ayn Rand. Little did I know that she was a philosopher. That started my path from fiction books to philosophy, psychology. A year after my 20th birthday I proclaimed my atheism. When I bought my first computer in El Paso Texas, I found other atheist through the internet. Fact is Sciforums has been one of the longest boards I've been on, (five years) and have less then 3000 posts, though on m way! The reason I have merely 2k+ posts is because I still read philosophy, books and internet.

Basically I've been through hell too, and back again. And no god helped me get out of doing drugs, getting a damn good job, and moving were I want to live. Las Vegas Nevada. Everyday here is like a vacation to me ( on my days off) I'm happy here, though I'm not rich, nor a heavy gambler. I love the neon lights, and the atmosphere of this place. I had my second nervous breakdown here.

Godless

 

[jayleew]

Jaylee I've basically posted much of my life on this forum, those that have been here awhile, know that I was a drug addict, crack cocain, weed, alcohol. Sex, Drugs & Rock&Roll. That was my lifestyle. I was a christian then also! Not a good one, I went to church seldom, and went through two nervous break-downs, How I regain myself, was through much reading of philosophy, psychology, and all sorts of books. After my second nervous breakdown, someone gave me a book to read. It was "Count of Monte Cristo" by Dumas, from there I continued reading and reading, Till I bought a novel By Ayn Rand. Little did I know that she was a philosopher. That started my path from fiction books to philosophy, psychology. A year after my 20th birthday I proclaimed my atheism. When I bought my first computer in El Paso Texas, I found other atheist through the internet. Fact is Sciforums has been one of the longest boards I've been on, (five years) and have less then 3000 posts, though on m way! The reason I have merely 2k+ posts is because I still read philosophy, books and internet.

Basically I've been through hell too, and back again. And no god helped me get out of doing drugs, getting a damn good job, and moving were I want to live. Las Vegas Nevada. Everyday here is like a vacation to me ( on my days off) I'm happy here, though I'm not rich, nor a heavy gambler. I love the neon lights, and the atmosphere of this place. I had my second nervous breakdown here.

Godless

You were a Christian. And still God did not prove himself to you in your time of need. Who failed you? Yourself, your church leader, other Christians around you, or God? It doesn't matter, to you it is illogical that we are even talking about God, we may as well be talking about the tooth fairy while we're at it.

You have not experienced God's surprising existence, but it sounds like you have done well for youself. I hope and pray that God suprisingly shows up in your life, like he did for me...so that you can change the people around you into something better. For now, you are proof that God does not exist, but your story is not over...

The Count of Monte Cristo carries a great parallel of how life is. He did all those things without God and for himself. Like in the story, you may not know God exists until the end of your story. Your life reminds me of the "count".

 

[Godless]

You were a Christian. And still God did not prove himself to you in your time of need.

It was my search of spirtualism that led me to drugs. It was the faith I had in others that made me try it.

I've been a Catholic, my parents religion I'm latin. I became Christian in my mid-teens, and finally I became a Babtist after my first nervous break-down. I became an atheist stoped doing drugs apx. 1 year, and started again. After my second nervous break-down here in Las Vegas. I had the conviction to quit basically on my own. I say basically cause I did see a shrink. (about a week) And then I was determined to quit drugs on my own. It's been 11 years, I'm still drug free, and drink only sociably very seldom. No god, needed, but devotion to self, strength of mind and a dedication for knowledge. I've never been to a universty & I'm a high-school drop out!. I'm very much self educated.

It doesn't matter, to you it is illogical that we are even talking about God, we may as well be talking about the tooth fairy while we're at it.

At least the tooth fairy did leave me some money!

As for god, it don't help even babies who are innocent, children get raped daily, people die miserably and poor, reality shows that a benevolent being is a contradiction.

You have not experienced God's surprising existence, but it sounds like you have done well for youself.

I have experienced life with belief, faith, devotion to an entity I know nothing about, but was told that it exists, and that it is truth. I've grown up! I took a different path, one that led me to where I am today, when I turned my back to blind faith, superstition and mythology.

I hope and pray that God suprisingly shows up in your life, like he did for me...so that you can change the people around you into something better.

Well I did meet Jesus he was the guy who used to sell me some pretty good herb. (many latinos are named Jesus) I used to joke with him. Your dope is the best, afterall your Jesus!!.

People around me change, we all change. Some for better some for worst. But I don't consider better those that entrust blind faith.

For now, you are proof that God does not exist, but your story is not over...

No! for now I'm just a guy who has made a better life without the notion of belief in god!

Godless

 

[Katazia]

Jayleew –

If I had kept a journal of my life's journey and shared it, it would be evidence of an external hand on my life; an infinite number of coincidences that have guided me in a single destiny, regardless of the waywardness of my choices (the more wayward, the more of life's trials experienced). God has mapped out a life for me that is abundant. It is up to me to choose to follow the map. I cannot deny his existence because it looks like, feels like, smells like, sounds like, etc God.

Your statement reveals your ignorance of statistical mathematics. You are merely a member of a set that will experience a range of good fortune and bad fortune that conforms to a normal random distribution.

To justify your claim that something extraordinary might be occurring you need to demonstrate you are significantly outside the normal random bell curve. Can you do that? Before that Occams’s razor should prevail and you cannot reasonably assume that anything supernatural is operating.

Kat

 

[Katazia]

jayleew,

But, if the universe is infinite, and energy is and always has been constant, where are all the other Earths and the other life forms on other planets? If the universe always was, then it is infinitely old, and so there are infinite number of hospitible planets.

You have confused infinite time with infinite size. Neither need we assume that the universe holds a stable state. A cyclic model of bang/collapse/bang is also infinite but of finite size.

I guess we'll find out someday, just like when we find out there is a god.

There is nothing to indicate we will ever discover gods.

In the absence of evidence, every possibility has an equal chance of being true.

I do not see that anyone has shown that gods are possible. Your statement is without foundation.

With an infinite number of possibillities, the chances of there being life on other planets approaches zero.

This is false since your preceding premises were invalid.

So, it is more likely that the universe is not infinitely old, and that energy was not always constant.

Similar faulty reasoning.

Kat

 

[jayleew]

Katazia,


Is this faulty logic?

In the absence of evidence, every possibility has an equal chance of being true. So, with an infinite number of possibilities, that thing that lacks evidence has a probability of being true that is less than one and approaches zero.

That is used to prove the non-existence of God, how is that faulty? If it is faulty, then there could be a God!!

It also can be used to disprove the existence of aliens.

So, since there are no other life forms, time is infinite, and energy constant today, then there was a time when no energy existed. Let me explain:

We know since we exist, that the universe is capable of creating life with energy and matter.

If energy and matter had existed an infinite number of years ago, then life would not have waited an infinite number of years to create life today. Rather, it created life on other planets an infinite number of years ago and we are not alone.

In the absence of evidence, every possibility has an equal chance of being true. So, with an infinite number of possibilities and no evidence of aliens, the probability of there being aliens has chance that is less than one and approaches zero.

Since we most likely are alone, then energy and matter most likely did not always exist.

 

[Godless]

Since we most likely are alone, then energy and matter most likely did not always exist.

The earth is but one of billions of planets and that's just in this galaxy. As a galaxy, the Milky Way is actually a giant, as its mass is probably between 750 billion and one trillion solar masses, and its diameter is about 100,000 light years.

We've have barely begun to map out the universe of other galaxies that exists, but it's estimated to be 200 billion other galaxies if not smaller larger than the milky way.

To make the above coment is nothing more than pure ingnorance of the vast size of the universe. We are not alone, but far apart. Consciousness if it exists in other parts of the universe are just like ours. In fact the only unifying theory of the universe is consciousness itself. To be conscious is to be aware of all that exists, and that which is known to exist is limited by our knowledge. We got a long, long way to go. Just to make the assertion that intellegent life on this galaxy alone does not exist. But that is doubtfull. Considering the vast size of the Milky Way.

Godless

 

[KennyJC]

That is used to prove the non-existence of God, how is that faulty? If it is faulty, then there could be a God!!

It also can be used to disprove the existence of aliens.

That is a bad analogy.

We know the existence of life on other planets is possible because they will have to be governed by the same laws that made it possible for millions of species of life to appear on this planet.

All that is needed for life to exist in this universe are a few lucky occurrances to make the conditions comfortable for life to evolve.

They estimate 70 billion trillion stars just in the visible universe alone. That is a huge number compared to just our star alone, and we have no idea how many stars exist outside the visible universe.

There is plenty of scope to believe in the existence of extra terrestrials. There is even reason to believe such primitive life exists on Mars which may be found one day. Nothing to suggest a God exists though.

 

[jayleew]

To make the above coment is nothing more than pure ingnorance of the vast size of the universe. We are not alone, but far apart. Consciousness if it exists in other parts of the universe are just like ours. In fact the only unifying theory of the universe is consciousness itself. To be conscious is to be aware of all that exists, and that which is known to exist is limited by our knowledge. We got a long, long way to go. Just to make the assertion that intellegent life on this galaxy alone does not exist. But that is doubtfull. Considering the vast size of the Milky Way.

Godless

Sure it seems an awful lot of wasted space, but there is no scientific data suggesting that there is life on other planets. So logically, there is none in the absence of evidence. There is a hypothesis that life exists on other planets, but no conclusion. Yes, we have a lot to explore, but if we are objective, we must see only the evidence. Everything else is speculation or pseudoscience.

Why should we believe there is life on other planets if we don't have evidence of any?? That is optimistic at best.

 

[jayleew]

That is a bad analogy.

We know the existence of life on other planets is possible because they will have to be governed by the same laws that made it possible for millions of species of life to appear on this planet.

All that is needed for life to exist in this universe are a few lucky occurrances to make the conditions comfortable for life to evolve.

They estimate 70 billion trillion stars just in the visible universe alone. That is a huge number compared to just our star alone, and we have no idea how many stars exist outside the visible universe.

There is plenty of scope to believe in the existence of extra terrestrials. There is even reason to believe such primitive life exists on Mars which may be found one day. Nothing to suggest a God exists though.

Sure, it's possible. Anything is possible. But just because it is possible, doesn't make it true. Sure, a few lucky occurrences for life to evolve. That is why if energy has always existed, then chances are, given infinity, that few lucky occurrence has happened. But, we don't have any evidence of that!! Hypothesis, experiment, conclusion...not hypothesis, conlcusion, experiment!!

I'm devolping a way to make gold out of water because you can, I just am working on it. I'll let you know when I finish. It's the same thing! In the absence of evidence, every possibility has an equal chance of being true, so the only thing is true is that which has evidence. So, there is no life on other planets, there is no god, and pigs cannot fly. Same logic. Why is that so hard to understand?

 

[KennyJC]

So, there is no life on other planets, there is no god, and pigs cannot fly. Same logic. Why is that so hard to understand?

I'm not saying we should all pressume there is no God. Despite the fact I am atheist/agnostic I understand that it is not THAT crazy to imagine a 'God'. But there is nothing to go on.

But there is a difference between the likelihood of 'aliens'. We know other stars exist, we know other planets exist, we know organic molecules are widespread throughout the universe. Through science, we have found more and more evidence that there is likely to be life elsewhere in the galaxy/universe, therefor I feel it is relevant to search for life on other planets via the means of science.

Perhaps one day science will reach a level of advancement far beyond what we have today, that will make it possible to find evidence of creation, but for the moment is a question of faith only.

 

[jayleew]

I'm not saying we should all pressume there is no God. Despite the fact I am atheist/agnostic I understand that it is not THAT crazy to imagine a 'God'. But there is nothing to go on.

But there is a difference between the likelihood of 'aliens'. We know other stars exist, we know other planets exist, we know organic molecules are widespread throughout the universe. Through science, we have found more and more evidence that there is likely to be life elsewhere in the galaxy/universe, therefor I feel it is relevant to search for life on other planets via the means of science.

Perhaps one day science will reach a level of advancement far beyond what we have today, that will make it possible to find evidence of creation, but for the moment is a question of faith only.

I was unaware of organic molecules found. I will have to do some research. Do you have any reference of this evidence?

 

[KennyJC]

I thought it was common knowledge that organic molecules were to be found in interstellar dust clouds and meteorites such as amino acids and carbohydrates etc

Do you have any reference of this evidence?

http://www.google.com

 

[dkb218]

If humans have true free will then God cannot be omniscient (see argument above). If he is not omniscient then he also cannot be omnipotent since knowledge of the future is a prerequisite for total action. Without these abilities God can no longer be deemed a god – i.e. God does not exist.

If humans do not have free will then the choice of whether to choose Jesus as a savior or not makes total nonsense of Christianity since the choice is pre-determined and we are merely puppets at the hands of an evil monster.

Cris

No being Christian and knowing that the message of that group of people is flawed, I tend to agree with you.

However since I believe that GOD is and Jesus is but a messenger of GOD, your conclusion the GOD cannot exist is flawed.

I'm not saying we should all pressume there is no God. Despite the fact I am atheist/agnostic I understand that it is not THAT crazy to imagine a 'God'. But there is nothing to go on.

Look within yourself - Look around yourself - Just look. If you want to see the proof that GOD is, you'll find it. Seek and Ye shall find...The proof is out there for those who wish to see it.

That's the beauty of the proof of GOD.

 

[GeoffP]

Great...another assertion based on dead air.

Geoff

 

[(Q)]

Look within yourself - Look around yourself - Just look. If you want to see the proof that GOD is, you'll find it. Seek and Ye shall find...The proof is out there for those who wish to see it.

I've looked everywhere and found only nature with no evidence or proof of any gods.

Where did you find your proof exactly and what proof did you find?

 

[Katazia]

dkb218,

Look within yourself - Look around yourself - Just look. If you want to see the proof that GOD is, you'll find it. Seek and Ye shall find...The proof is out there for those who wish to see it.

That's the beauty of the proof of GOD.

It is the nature of irrational thought that permits the conviction of truth without foundation. By that mechanism of self-delusion one can be convinced of anything by anything.

It is not that you have found a proof for God but that you interpret what you see according to what you want and in this case it is a vacuous ideal.

Kat