Prayer Works -- a praise report for my Christian Brethren
- Thread starter Woody
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8 pages and counting.
Dear Woody:
Have you any clue what "atheism" means?
Do you know what it is?
The “atheist” is not a troll.
The “atheist” is not an honest soul more willing to learn through cruel demands of doubting things than by swallowing them whole like cheesy Big Macs.
The atheist is not a determinist fuckwad, according to Spinoza.
The atheist is THIRSTY for a true religion- he wants to touch, taste, feel the god you claim exists but you've turned him away or refused to explain it to him.
In other words, atheism is not a thing in itself but a failure of your system and I’m the prodigal son..
Yet you turned me away.
Atheism cannot even look itself in the mirror, Woody, knowing it cannot know god the way you can.
Yet you turn me away.
I want you to show God to me, woody.
That is why I am here, that is why your thread caught my tired eye that's been poisione-d with fear.
See, you go to church every Sunday and by Monday you've forgotten Luke 10: 25-
Now here is your brother in Christ (Mephura) and he at least is willing to show God to me
And you agree with him, Woody. You believe that god has orchestrated you from the beginning.
But wait a second.
You can choose to reply to me or not. You could have chosen to help me or not. Or was that god’s will as well?
If so, God has chosen to turn me away and type what you did to me.
Therefore, God has lied. He said he would never turn away those at his door.
Mephura:
I mean, never mind that the creator of Logic and Reason should be the best at it.
The bible is an egregious study in contradiction.
And there is a lot of praying in the world, Mr. Mephura. Which would be no different than running a home with crying children 24 hours for weeks.
We’d incarcerate God- who claims to know all needs at all times- for parental negligence.
Dear Woody:
You seem upset with me.
Have you any clue what "atheism" means?
Do you know what it is?
The “atheist” is not a troll.
The “atheist” is not an honest soul more willing to learn through cruel demands of doubting things than by swallowing them whole like cheesy Big Macs.
The atheist is not a determinist fuckwad, according to Spinoza.
The atheist is THIRSTY for a true religion- he wants to touch, taste, feel the god you claim exists but you've turned him away or refused to explain it to him.
In other words, atheism is not a thing in itself but a failure of your system and I’m the prodigal son..
Yet you turned me away.
Atheism cannot even look itself in the mirror, Woody, knowing it cannot know god the way you can.
Yet you turn me away.
I want you to show God to me, woody.
That is why I am here, that is why your thread caught my tired eye that's been poisione-d with fear.
See, you go to church every Sunday and by Monday you've forgotten Luke 10: 25-
You could not even be my Samaritan, and you call yourself Christian.
Now here is your brother in Christ (Mephura) and he at least is willing to show God to me
And you agree with him, Woody. You believe that god has orchestrated you from the beginning.
But wait a second.
You can choose to reply to me or not. You could have chosen to help me or not. Or was that god’s will as well?
If so, God has chosen to turn me away and type what you did to me.
Therefore, God has lied. He said he would never turn away those at his door.
Mephura:
Good point.
I mean, never mind that the creator of Logic and Reason should be the best at it.
The bible is an egregious study in contradiction.
And there is a lot of praying in the world, Mr. Mephura. Which would be no different than running a home with crying children 24 hours for weeks.
We’d incarcerate God- who claims to know all needs at all times- for parental negligence.
Why?
Some fool's misguided ideas, which they perceive as logical don't apply to me.
Another fool's misguided ideas don't apply to you.
Why should humanity's "logic" control God?
Humanity can't even come to a consensus.
How is god going to fit this mess?
We can't even agree on which side of the road to drive on.
Maybe that is why prayer seems to be so foolish - everybody is asking God for contrary things. The christians say, "protect us from the muslim hordes, and kill those terrorists," and the muslims say, "kill the infidels, and protect us from the western empire."
Bah.
Some fool's misguided ideas, which they perceive as logical don't apply to me.
Another fool's misguided ideas don't apply to you.
Why should humanity's "logic" control God?
Humanity can't even come to a consensus.
How is god going to fit this mess?
We can't even agree on which side of the road to drive on.
Maybe that is why prayer seems to be so foolish - everybody is asking God for contrary things. The christians say, "protect us from the muslim hordes, and kill those terrorists," and the muslims say, "kill the infidels, and protect us from the western empire."
Bah.
gendanken said:
Never blame people for your own disbelief in God. It is not fair, not to you and not to God.
Don't ask people questions that are meant to be asked of God. People will be more than glad to answer -- but they cannot speak for God.
If you look for God in people, you won't find Him there. You'll find people and some upon whom God has worked.
Despair not so quickly.
One is not a good empiricist if one stumbles and gives up so quickly. I am sure Woody is not the first one to talk to you about God, and that many were there before, and disappointed you.
Woody is Woody, and God won't think and work for him.
If someone won't help you -- don't look for ways to add them to your problems.
Have you really been turned away? Is there no one who cares for you and tries to help you?
Yes. But are you sure it is His words you have read and understood?
Especially if English is the only language you are reading it in.
What we think that we need is not the same as what God thinks we need.
I wonder if we really need air-conditioning. And whatnot.
P.S. to Gendanken:
Romans 2:
The Jews and the Law
17Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and brag about your relationship to God; 18if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law; 19if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, 20an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of infants, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— 21you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23You who brag about the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? 24As it is written: "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."
The Jews and the Law
17Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and brag about your relationship to God; 18if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law; 19if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, 20an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of infants, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— 21you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23You who brag about the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? 24As it is written: "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."
Gend says: You seem upset with me.
Woody says: No I am not upset with you. OK, so you have feelings and so do I. I'll be honest and tell you that some of the communication around here was getting next to me. A few "damns" every now and then are ok.
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Gend says: I want you to show God to me, woody.
That is why I am here, that is why your thread caught my tired eye that's been poisione-d with fear.
See, you go to church every Sunday and by Monday you've forgotten Luke 10: 25-
Woody says: You are looking and that is a great start. A decision about christianity comes down to a decision about Christ himself. You spoke of the Samaritan parable -- Jesus told it. There is also a decision about yourself -- do you feel like you need to change, are you concerned about what happens after you die?
At this point you are probably afraid of God and wonder if he even exists, but look at Jesus. If you want to see God -- look at Him. You can read what Jesus says in the four gospels. The gospel of John is the best place to start.
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Gend says: If so, God has chosen to turn me away and type what you did to me. Therefore, God has lied. He said he would never turn away those at his door.
Woody says: I am not God. I am an ambassador for Christ, and that is all I am. From what you have said, there has been a failure on my part. I am only human -- I have feelings, thoughts, and imperfections like any other human. I apologize. Nonbelievers expect christians to be perfect -- we are not, but our savior Jesus Christ is perfect, and someday, after we die, we will be made just like Him. He is alive today.
You are right, God will not turn someone away that knocks at his door. I can appreciate you seeing at least a glimpse of the Lord in me, but I am just a fallable human -- you need to go to the source -- and that's Jesus.
Woody says: No I am not upset with you. OK, so you have feelings and so do I. I'll be honest and tell you that some of the communication around here was getting next to me. A few "damns" every now and then are ok.
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Gend says: I want you to show God to me, woody.
That is why I am here, that is why your thread caught my tired eye that's been poisione-d with fear.
See, you go to church every Sunday and by Monday you've forgotten Luke 10: 25-
Woody says: You are looking and that is a great start. A decision about christianity comes down to a decision about Christ himself. You spoke of the Samaritan parable -- Jesus told it. There is also a decision about yourself -- do you feel like you need to change, are you concerned about what happens after you die?
At this point you are probably afraid of God and wonder if he even exists, but look at Jesus. If you want to see God -- look at Him. You can read what Jesus says in the four gospels. The gospel of John is the best place to start.
----------------------------------
Gend says: If so, God has chosen to turn me away and type what you did to me. Therefore, God has lied. He said he would never turn away those at his door.
Woody says: I am not God. I am an ambassador for Christ, and that is all I am. From what you have said, there has been a failure on my part. I am only human -- I have feelings, thoughts, and imperfections like any other human. I apologize. Nonbelievers expect christians to be perfect -- we are not, but our savior Jesus Christ is perfect, and someday, after we die, we will be made just like Him. He is alive today.
You are right, God will not turn someone away that knocks at his door. I can appreciate you seeing at least a glimpse of the Lord in me, but I am just a fallable human -- you need to go to the source -- and that's Jesus.
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Woody said:
If we will be made just like him we will be him and not ourselves.
spurious says: If we will be made just like him we will be him and not ourselves.
Woody says: Well, not exactly. We still maintain our unique individuality, if that's what you mean. On the otherhand we will be made like Him with a resurrected immortal body.
Woody says: Well, not exactly. We still maintain our unique individuality, if that's what you mean. On the otherhand we will be made like Him with a resurrected immortal body.
Cole says: The christians say, "protect us from the muslim hordes, and kill those terrorists,"
Woody says: I have never prayed for God to kill anyone.
Jesus says:
Woody says: But Jesus, that's a tough request! Never-the-less you set the standard. I know I can't acheive it in my own strength. Sometimes, it is hard to live the christian life, but it's worth it today, tomorrow, and forever!
Woody says: I have never prayed for God to kill anyone.
Jesus says:
(Matthew 5:44)
Woody says: But Jesus, that's a tough request! Never-the-less you set the standard. I know I can't acheive it in my own strength. Sometimes, it is hard to live the christian life, but it's worth it today, tomorrow, and forever!
Woody said:
Will be still be the same though if we would be immortal. I suspect being immortal would have a great effect on our psyche.
I did not "wake up to a feeling." I was sitting at my desk at work in the morning
Irrelevant details.
I knew somebody was reading my resume that was highly interested in me... The perception happened before the phone call, and I was anticipating the call.
That, I suspect, is an outright lie.
I'm not bragging on that, some people get a bona fide premonition that things are about to happen.
Strawman, based on a lie. Sad, Woody.
I agree, and Christians understand the difference.
If they understand the difference, then they certainly couldn't care less about anyone else but themselves. At the very least, one could exonerate them if they pleaded ignorance, but to understand is an act of pure selfishness.
Your claim is a statement that Christians are narcistic, self-serving egomaniacs.
So you are telling me to just ignore spiritual discernment, one of God's great biblical gifts.
Yes, as it is clearly little more than your imagination. And one day, your imagination will tell you to go out and kill people.
When God tugs at my heart and tells me somebody is dieing that-I-know, you just want me to ignore Him do you.
Again, you are clearly delusional if you think anyone will believe that a god talks to you.
I should tell you to kiss-off Q-dude!
That indicates to me that you're off the deep-end with fanaticism of your religion. Even after I congratulated you on getting the job, you feel it necessary to tell me to hit the road simply because I don't believe your good fortune was based on divine intervention.
I was happy for you, Woody, and respected the hard work it took for you to get that job. YOU, Woody, not your god got you that job.
And if you can't accept my congratulations in that regard, I am forced to take back my felicitations and leave you to your vices.
Irrelevant details.
I knew somebody was reading my resume that was highly interested in me... The perception happened before the phone call, and I was anticipating the call.
That, I suspect, is an outright lie.
I'm not bragging on that, some people get a bona fide premonition that things are about to happen.
Strawman, based on a lie. Sad, Woody.
I agree, and Christians understand the difference.
If they understand the difference, then they certainly couldn't care less about anyone else but themselves. At the very least, one could exonerate them if they pleaded ignorance, but to understand is an act of pure selfishness.
Your claim is a statement that Christians are narcistic, self-serving egomaniacs.
So you are telling me to just ignore spiritual discernment, one of God's great biblical gifts.
Yes, as it is clearly little more than your imagination. And one day, your imagination will tell you to go out and kill people.
When God tugs at my heart and tells me somebody is dieing that-I-know, you just want me to ignore Him do you.
Again, you are clearly delusional if you think anyone will believe that a god talks to you.
I should tell you to kiss-off Q-dude!
That indicates to me that you're off the deep-end with fanaticism of your religion. Even after I congratulated you on getting the job, you feel it necessary to tell me to hit the road simply because I don't believe your good fortune was based on divine intervention.
I was happy for you, Woody, and respected the hard work it took for you to get that job. YOU, Woody, not your god got you that job.
And if you can't accept my congratulations in that regard, I am forced to take back my felicitations and leave you to your vices.
I was just giving an example of two contradicting ideas which are impossible to fulfill (unless God grants both prayers, which is what people deserve when they pray like that).
Also, we amerikkkans, have killed plenty of innocent muslims, we helped pay for the bullets and bombs.
Also, to Q, getting rid of religion wouldn't solve the problem with human relations.
Also, to Q, getting rid of religion wouldn't solve the problem with human relations.
Are you insinuating that simple and rational sociological interactions could not produce harmonial human relationships?
Is it possible, incredulous as it may seem, that if religion did in fact not arise in human development, we would always remain barbaric to one another?
I don't ever recall throughout our history atheists having the authority to decide the matters of human relationships and their development.
Perhaps it is the reasoning of the church, based on their ideals of gods that has left us in our current state of affairs.
Are you insinuating that simple and rational sociological interactions could not produce harmonial human relationships?
Is it possible, incredulous as it may seem, that if religion did in fact not arise in human development, we would always remain barbaric to one another?
I don't ever recall throughout our history atheists having the authority to decide the matters of human relationships and their development.
Perhaps it is the reasoning of the church, based on their ideals of gods that has left us in our current state of affairs.
Woody originally said: I knew somebody was reading my resume that was highly interested in me... The perception happened before the phone call, and I was anticipating the call.
Q said: That, I suspect, is an outright lie.
Woody says: Just call it a coincidence then, but it did happen. I knew someone was reading my resume, but I wasn't sure when I would get the call. I just happened to get the call that afternoon.
Q said: Strawman, based on a lie. Sad, Woody.
Woody: You are sad, I am happy.
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Woody originally said: When God tugs at my heart and tells me somebody is dieing that-I-know, you just want me to ignore Him do you?
Q said: That indicates to me that you're off the deep-end with fanaticism of your religion.
Woody: I personally know christians that have received an awful premonition that someone they cared about was in imminent danger. The Holy Spirit told them to pray for that person. They stopped what they were doing and prayed intensely, even all night long. Those people they prayed for were spared from terrible tragedies at the time they were praying for them. This has happened more than once.
I don't really care if you believe it. I know what I have heard and seen.
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Q says: I was happy for you, Woody, and respected the hard work it took for you to get that job. YOU, Woody, not your god got you that job.
Woody says: I give the credit where it is due, I don't want to lose out on another blessing. I thank people when they help me -- should I expect them to help me again if I am thankless? The Lord feels the same way about it.
Q said: That, I suspect, is an outright lie.
Woody says: Just call it a coincidence then, but it did happen. I knew someone was reading my resume, but I wasn't sure when I would get the call. I just happened to get the call that afternoon.
Q said: Strawman, based on a lie. Sad, Woody.
Woody: You are sad, I am happy.
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Woody originally said: When God tugs at my heart and tells me somebody is dieing that-I-know, you just want me to ignore Him do you?
Q said: That indicates to me that you're off the deep-end with fanaticism of your religion.
Woody: I personally know christians that have received an awful premonition that someone they cared about was in imminent danger. The Holy Spirit told them to pray for that person. They stopped what they were doing and prayed intensely, even all night long. Those people they prayed for were spared from terrible tragedies at the time they were praying for them. This has happened more than once.
I don't really care if you believe it. I know what I have heard and seen.
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Q says: I was happy for you, Woody, and respected the hard work it took for you to get that job. YOU, Woody, not your god got you that job.
Woody says: I give the credit where it is due, I don't want to lose out on another blessing. I thank people when they help me -- should I expect them to help me again if I am thankless? The Lord feels the same way about it.
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