Our attitude concerning mockery of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon

AS A MUSLIM WE BELIEVE THAT GOD IS TRUE, HELL IS TRUE , paradise is trur,

All the messengers are true and all holy books are true.We believe in the unseen and God says to us.

Surely, Shaytan (Satan) is an enemy to you, so take (treat) him as an enemy. He only invites his followers that they may become the dwellers of the blazing Fire.” (Fatir: 6)

The Satan of Islam was a "Jinn", created from fire as all Jinns were and still are. Angels were and still are created from light. While Angels and Jinns are considered "Angels" in Islam, because they were created from the same material (fire is light, and light is fire), but Jinns are lower than the Angels, because Jinns are like humans; they do sin, while the Angels are perfect and Sinless. The similarity between Angels and Jinns is like the similarity between humans and animals. Created from almost the same material, but two different WORLDS. We also have "human-angels" V.S. evil and bad ones.

My friend sipdergoat

i invite to read who is satan in islam pls visit
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/...h-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503546400
 
Michael said:
Arsalan,

Good response :)
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Thank you. Its always a pleasure debating with you :)

So, to go back to the OP, do you think that it is OK to criticize Religion? (even to the point of pissing off some people?)
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Religion should be criticized. Everything should be open to criticism. But what I am concerned about, together with other people on here, is the method of critique. As I said before a debate is most productive in a arena of common and mutual respect. So first of all, before engaging in a debate, one must ask oneself: what do I wish to get from this debate? Does one just merely want one's own opinions and beliefs reinforced, no matter what the costs, or does one actually want a debate, a dialogue isntead of a monologue, and gather what the other thinks?

Now, I would not have a problem with Mr. Wilders' movie if it was a dialogue. If he actually went out there and asked scholars to comment on whatever he wants to critizise Islam about. But I doubt he will do that. I am almost positive he will use the verses which are thrown around lots and have been refuted lots and paste them big on the screen and show riots and whatnot. The question that needs to be asked then, is, what does Mr. Wilders want to gain from this? Does he want a debate? Is this the best way to do that?

Ofcourse, no Muslim on this board condones any riots that, unfortunately, will take place once this monologue airs.

RE: Mohammad, I had a question, it seems many people have this impression that Arabs were very barbaric people prior to Islam. I agree they fought, but they fought a lot after Islam too so this didn't change, I disagree they were barbaric. You know a lot of Syrians were Roman Citizens and migrated and lived in Italy? One Arab was even the Emperor of Rome for a time.

Anyway, my question, if Arabs were so backwards, then why is it that Mohammad's first wife held some much power at that time - pre-Islam I mean? I had a Persian tell me Arabs killed all their daughters they so despised have girls and so desperately wanted boys. Well, so do people living in India and China, but certainly not the majority! Anyway, it I don't buy it - if people did that there would be no female to grow the population. I don't buy this notion that Arabs were backwards and barbaric and perhaps, some of their earlier customs were superior?
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Your friend was wrong. They didnt kill off all their daughters. That would be stupid. The thing is that the Arabs disliked having a daughter. Ofcourse, not all did, but that was the majority consensus. And some people then actively buried and killed their daughters. The Prophets first wife was a trader, so I would think she was from a noble and rich family. And, in those days, noble and rich families were more educated and civilized than their counterparts.
 
(Q) said:
What a load of crap.

Those fairy tale creatures are mocked, not because they are fairy tale creatures, but the fact that YOU believe in them. It is YOU who is being mocked.

Holding fairy tale creatures in high esteem and treating them as your mother or father certainly does expect at the very least, mockery.
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Ah so mocking the belief is the same as mocking the believer.

Glad you see the light. Finally.
 
S.A.M. said:
Ah so mocking the belief is the same as mocking the believer.

Glad you see the light. Finally.
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Either your reading comprehension skills have seriously deteriorated or you're trolling again.

Hmmm... which one is it? :scratchin:
 
(Q) said:
Either your reading comprehension skills have seriously deteriorated or you're trolling again.

Hmmm... which one is it? :scratchin:
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Gotcha, didn't I?;)

Ты такая мудрая
 
arsalan said:
Now, I would not have a problem with Mr. Wilders' movie if it was a dialogue. If he actually went out there and asked scholars to comment on whatever he wants to critizise Islam about.
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I don't see why it's Mr Wilder's responsibility to keep up both sides of a dialogue.

He's said - or ranted, whatever - his side. Now the other side - what will it say ?

Not that people have to get into dialogues with every crackpot at the bus stop, but if they want to there's certainly opportunity.
 
tresbien said:
MICHAEL.I have selceted to u some wise sayings.I hope it will be useful to all of us.
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Some of the sayings we nice, but really, some weren't, at least to me.

tresbien said:
MACHEAL
when I studied cultural discourse, i realised that many western writers emphasise the concept of eurocentrism that is the white race is the center while the other that is Arab or Africans or even Indians are inferiors , savages or backwards.Indeed, there are many misconception about Arabs and many sterotypes.I read some texts in which the writers associate Black with magic and brand Arabs as womanizers.If u read JANE EYERE u will realise that she places herself as educator and has divine role to educate the uncivilised.
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What I was getting at is that many MUSLIMS tell me Arabs were barbaric before Islam. For instance, suggesting they typically would kill a female child. I just don't buy it. Actually, if we want to know what Arabs were like back then we should look at how modern day herdsmen and nomads are. Usually they're pretty good to the women in the group because everyone has a part to play in maintaining the tribe.

That was my point.
 
spidergoat said:
I don't believe in fairy tales. Why do you believe the holy book is true?
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ALLAH SAYS IN QURAN
Did you think that We had created you in play (without any purpose), and that you would not be brought back to Us?”

created not the heavens and the earth and all that is between them for a (mere) play”

[al-Anbiya’ 21:16]

“And We created not the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them, for mere play.

39. We created them not except with truth (i.e. to examine and test those who are obedient and those who are disobedient and then reward the obedient ones and punish the disobedient ones), but most of them know not”

[al-Dukhaan 44:38]

“Haa‑Meem.

[These letters are one of the miracles of the Qur’aan, and none but Allaah (Alone) knows their meanings.]

2. The revelation of the Book (this Qur’aan) is from Allaah, the All‑Mighty, the All‑Wise.

3. We created not the heavens and the earth and all that is between them except with truth, and for an appointed term. But those who disbelieve, turn away from that whereof they are warned”

[al-Ahqaaf 46:1-3]

Leave them to eat and enjoy, and let them be preoccupied with (false) hope. They will come to know!”

[al-Hijr 15:3]

“And surely, We have created many of the jinn and mankind for Hell. They have hearts wherewith they understand not, and they have eyes wherewith they see not, and they have ears wherewith they hear not (the truth). They are like cattle, nay even more astray; those! They are the heedless ones”

[al-A’raaf 7:179]

Allah says in the very beginning of the Qur'an: "This Book, there is no doubt in it, is a guide to those who guard (against evil). Those who believe in the unseen and .... " [2:2-3] . Those who believe in the unseen are the ones who use their logic to see/experience things. In order to increase our Faith in the unseen (Allah, His Angels etc), this book (Quran) is the guidance. Faith/Belief is one of the initial steps that lead to the discoveries (Truth, facts). If a person says "I don't believe in Time & Gravity", that person will not be able to study physics or perhaps much of the science.




Surely, in the creation of the heavens and the earth, in the alternation of the night and the day, in the sailing of the ships through the ocean for the profit of mankind, in the rain which Allah sends down from the skies, with which He revives the earth after its death and spreads in it all kinds of animals, in the change of the winds and the clouds between the sky and the earth that are made subservient, there are signs for rational people (liqawmin yaAAqiloona).

Al-Qur'an [ Yunus -- 10:82 ]:

Scholars have categorised the Certainty (Yaqeen) in the following three levels (which I am writing in my own words according to our context) -

'Ilm al-Yaqeen (Knowledge based Certainty) - Belief / Faith
'Eyn al-Yaqeen (Sight (senses) based Certainty) - Observation (becoming witness)
Haqq al-Yaqeen (Absolute Truth/Certainty) - Full Experience

Let's see an example, a person presents a cup of coffee to his friend and says: "I made some delicious coffee for you".

In the first stage, his friend believes in him that the coffee is delicious, without even looking or smelling the coffee.
In the second stage, his friend looks at the cup and smells then becomes more certain that since it looks good and smells nice therefore it must be delicious (although he has not tasted it yet).
In the third stage, his friend sips some coffee and then becomes absolutely certain that the coffee is delicious and becomes certain that his friend did not lie to him. This is the final stage, after this there is doubt.
 
DOUGLAS ADAMS SAYS IN A BOOK THAT I'VE JUST MADE UP :

"He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife."

"I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be."

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move."

"Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so."

"Nothing travels faster than the speed of light with the possible exception of bad news, which obeys its own special laws."

"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."

"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair."

follow the commands hidden behind the above lines of wisdom, and you'll lead a fulfilled life
 
tresbien said:
ALLAH SAYS IN QURAN...
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Did Allah personally pen anything in the Quran directly or is it all someone said that Allah said, someone said that someone said that Allah said, etc.?

Hearsay is nothing more than gossip by another name....
 
C1ay said:
Did Allah personally pen anything in the Quran directly or is it all someone said that Allah said, someone said that someone said that Allah said, etc.?

Hearsay is nothing more than gossip by another name....
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What in the world is not based on hearsay?
 
tresbien said:
ALLAH SAYS IN QURAN
Did you think that We had created you in play (without any purpose), and that you would not be brought back to Us?”
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What do you think the "purpose" in "creating" a child with both sex (penis and vagina)?

What is the "purpose" in "creating" a child who is molested for 10 years by their parents and then murdered?

What is the "purpose" in "creating" a child who is kept in a closet their entire life. Fed left overs, never to see the sun, to learn to speak, just to live in their own filth in a closet and then die at the age of 10.

What is the "purpose" in "creating" a child without legs, arms, or a functioning brain?


I'm just curious why your God would create such children or even allow such children to end up in such situations. To me, such a God is evil. Then again, this same God, when able to make animals that don't need food instead choose to designed animals both to feel pain and also to kill other animals to survive.

Michael

PS: Just don't say "as a test" or "it's humanities fault not God's" or some other kind of crap like this.
 
tresbien said:
Allah says in the very beginning of the Qur'an: "This Book, there is no doubt in it, is a guide to those who guard (against evil). Those who believe in the unseen and .... " [2:2-3] . Those who believe in the unseen are the ones who use their logic to see/experience things. In order to increase our Faith in the unseen (Allah, His Angels etc), this book (Quran) is the guidance. Faith/Belief is one of the initial steps that lead to the discoveries (Truth, facts). If a person says "I don't believe in Time & Gravity", that person will not be able to study physics or perhaps much of the science
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Look tresbien, I'm sure you're a nice person, but you are completely brainwashed.
Which is fine.
You want to think that societies that place "faith" in God, that somehow this faith advances modern science (against all Historical precedence) then go ahead. There Scientologists who probably think that "faith" in Xenu does likewise and who knows, the Raelians may have a point?!?

There really is no mean by which logic can convince you otherwise. So it's OK. The Western world has brainwashed Scientologists and I suppose as long as we don't have to many of them things should still be fine. I personally think all one has to do is take a look at societies where there are a lot of superstitious believers to see what society will be like. The ME and Malaysia and Indonesia are excellent examples of what society is like when there are too many superstitious believers. Middle Age Europe is another fine example.


I suppose this is why some Muslims (not all but some) love to go back to that warm sweet spot in history, where there was this perfect fanciful time where all Muslims lived under the ocean in a city called Al-ltantus ... ooo wait I'm getting my myths mixed up, I mean that time of the Righteous Caliphs and all was perfect and we rode around on levitating horses... silly isn't it? But holding such beleifs allows us to validate the present with one excuse or another - We'd still be living under the ocean if it weren't for people's lack of faith, (and you and your meddling Dog.. Scoooby dooby doobi dooo.... :)

Religion holds back progress tresbien, middle age Europe or modern day Islamic nations are testament to this.
 
tresbien said:
ALLAH SAYS IN QURAN
Did you think that We had created you in play (without any purpose), and that you would not be brought back to Us?”
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You haven't explained anything. We think this world was made for us, because all life adapts to the place it arises. If the world were full of acid and fire, we would also think it was made for us, because we would be adapted to it.

We have no purpose.
 
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