On atheists and freedom of belief
- Thread starter S.A.M.
- Start date
But, getting back on topic: Yes, everyone is free to choose what they believe. Why wouldn't they?
Many of Hitlers beliefs come straight out of this book:
http://www.humanitas-international.org/showcase/chronography/documents/luther-jews.htm
NorseFire; I am not disagreeing, he DID have a lot of humanist properties and beliefs. Could you give citations?
http://www.humanitas-international.org/showcase/chronography/documents/luther-jews.htm
NorseFire; I am not disagreeing, he DID have a lot of humanist properties and beliefs. Could you give citations?
Un-f*cking-believable. You tried to make this exact argument over a year ago, and had your head handed to you. I will now simply cut-and-paste from this thread, where this has all been gone over already: http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=66003
There are a mountain of quotes from well-documented sources on Hitler, including transcripts of his numerous public speeches, his letters to friends, and even his own book Mein Kampf that all show him to be a christian with a religious hatred of Jews. But you choose to ignore all of those, and pull out a quote from "Table Talk," a second-hand source that few historians take seriously because most of the things in it contradict every other record regarding Hitler. Nice. Of course, if you want to ague that Hitler was an atheist, you would also need to contend with these quotes that come from the very same source as your quote:
-Table-Talk [p. 59]
As long as we're throwing Hitler quotes around, chew on these. Note that these are from primary sources.
-Mein Kampf
Your intellectual dishonesty is unbelievable. You try to repeat the the same old lies even after their falsehood has already been explained to you.
Can you provide some evidence for this, other than "it's not true because I don't want it to be true?"
Yeah, I thought not.
What is the evidence? His personal communications? Which is to be considered the propaganda then? When the personal communications and his memoir is placed on an even playing field, a tie is achieved. The tie-breaker, therefore, becomes the evidence of his familial and societal training and education as a boy, which was Catholic.
Hitler was religious and superstitious. All day long. Every day. You can spin it any way you want and the guy's atrocities were informed by his understanding of Old Testament mythology.
Common sense, perhaps? No Christian would murder Jews, especially not millions of innocent ones. And Hitler loved propaganda; what better way to gain support than to appeal to one's own faith?
Nobody can prove or disprove Hitler's beliefs, however, since he, unfortunately, is dead.
The Nazis were as fanatically anti-Christian as the Bolsheviks
Oh look at what Hitler said:
Now, from Table Talk, his private conversations:
"National Socialism and religion cannot exist together....
"The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity....
"Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things." (p 6 & 7)
In either case...Atheists should have right to freedom even if they are neo-NAZI's or Hitler themself. Freedom to act on belief is a different story.
Ahh... so here is the rub then. For those afflicted by the superstitions and delusions of religious thought (i.e. Christianity and islam), anyone a cult member happens to disagree with must, necessarily, not be a "true believer."
This argument is weak and nonsensical. Moreover, it's an ignorant one.
So what exactly would you take as evidence? He went to church services. His private letters and public speeches were all full of religious rhetoric - even before he was a politician. Every piece of evidence (with the one exception of "Table Talk," which has already been addressed) points to him being a christian. Now you are simply trying to dismiss all this evidence because it doesn't fit in with the view of the world that you want to have. Sorry, but "It's not true because I don't want it to be true" is not evidence for backing up your claim here.
No, it isn't. Hitler loved power; what better way to gain power than to appeal to faith?
Not to mention everything he did pretty much went entirely against Christian beliefs. As well as the fact that HE SAID "Christianity is too soft and sappy; why could it not have been Islam?"
This proves he wanted it as a propaganda tool.
Nasor: perhaps he had belief in God as a young man, but I have no doubt he was an avid atheist later in life, using religion as a propaganda tool.
Not to mention everything he did pretty much went entirely against Christian beliefs. As well as the fact that HE SAID "Christianity is too soft and sappy; why could it not have been Islam?"
This proves he wanted it as a propaganda tool.
Nasor: perhaps he had belief in God as a young man, but I have no doubt he was an avid atheist later in life, using religion as a propaganda tool.
THERE GOES THE TOPIC OF THE FORUM...OUT THE WINDOW. HOW ABOUT CREATE A NEW FORUM FOR 'IS HITLER AN ATHEIST?' IN HISTORICAL FORUM? This was a good topic, was.
Oh man, this is too hilarious for words. Christians wouldn't kill Jews? Are you familiar with ANY of the 2000 or so years of European history that happened after christianty started? Mistreating Jews was often about the only thing that the various christian nations of europe could agree on. It got so bad that for hundreds of years Jews were fleeing europe to Islamic countries because they were treated much better there - which should tell you something about just how bad it was for Jews in europe.
Last edited:
I think if he was such a devout a Christian, he would have disavowed evolution. But he did not, he supported it.
I am a theist.
Just about everything that <i>modern</i> Christians align themselves with "goes against Christian belief." That comment demonstrates nothing.
That's the nature of delusion: once a religious superstition is subscribed to, the afflicted has only to make some minor adjustments to his/her delusions in order to make it all fit his/her desires for the world.
That's why so many nutjobs kill their kids in the name of God; kill their co-workers in the name of God; continue as pedophile priests; cover up pedophile priests; etc, etc.
That's the nature of delusion: once a religious superstition is subscribed to, the afflicted has only to make some minor adjustments to his/her delusions in order to make it all fit his/her desires for the world.
That's why so many nutjobs kill their kids in the name of God; kill their co-workers in the name of God; continue as pedophile priests; cover up pedophile priests; etc, etc.