On atheists and freedom of belief

[DiamondHearts]

It may take thousands of years for humanity to advance to a religion-free society.

I would hardly call that advancement. Moral decay, destruction of the building block of human society (the family), high divorce rates, proliferation of promiscuity, destruction of human kindness and sympathy for fellow human beings, unchecked economic exploitation. A religion-free society would be the absolute worst society to live in.

If it's poverty, the biggest cause of the misfortune in the Middle East is the low status of women. As good socially conscious atheists we give almost our entire charity budget to the Central Asia Institute. They go into the cesspools of Islamic fundamentalism and build schools that have only one requirement: they must admit girls. They've built about 100 so far and have made a difference, one village at a time. In places where women are held back and kept in ignorance, civilization backslides.

I can judge by your comments that you have never visited the Middle East. That's a very simplistic viewpoint, and this simplistic viewpoint is part of the problem, not the solution.

Education for women is important, and in much of the Muslim world it is a top priority. I would not imagine that someone so out of touch with a region would ever know the truth however. As far as Afghanistan, what do you think has been worse for women education, bombing of hundreds of girls' schools or lack of initiative on native Afghanis? Think about it.

The key to world peace and prosperity is educating our women.

Which is also taught in the Quran and Islam.

How many christians or Muslims do you know who have compassion for their fellow human being? I don't know of any.

That is the problem. Many athiests assume that religious people are bad people. Look up the Edhi Foundation, for one. There are hundreds of thousands of Muslims working for the betterment of their people. Unfortunately, many Western athiests and Christians, do not want to hear this. They want to misrepresent us, so they can justify their invasions and murder of Muslims. That's the truth, because it is hard to justify killing of kind people.

Maybe this will provide some insight for thinking individuals.

 

[(Q)]

Its a fact. 20,000 children die from its effects daily. See any atheists aka secular humanists frothing at the mouth over it?Now if only they were all Muslims, maybe someone would get excited enough to notice it.

It's interesting how you suddenly take notice of Allah's shortcomings and blame the secularists for his murdering of those children.

So, are you excited, as a Muslim, for those deaths, and Allah's atrocity?

 

[Gustav]

(I did vote for you to be in charge of Sciforums, however unscientific I find many of your posts - (or because?))

hmmm
since you bring it up, you force me to reward you for your insolence
i'm going to enjoy watching you die, mr anders..

 

[Gustav]

They weren't designed like other government buildings, they were designed most closely to prisons.

you repeat yourself
once again, sans reasoning and citations

this is sci
we shit on unsubstantiated opinions
rectify before i do

as for being off topic ........
wtf?
so?

do we digress on the weather or my rhoids?

 

[Gustav]

I would hardly call that advancement. Moral decay, destruction of the building block of human society (the family), high divorce rates, proliferation of promiscuity, destruction of human kindness and sympathy for fellow human beings, unchecked economic exploitation. A religion-free society would be the absolute worst society to live in.

mindless garbage
show me some stats
do a comparison....incidence of criminality b/w theist and secular societies

 

[CheskiChips]

Of course the non-theists should have freedom of belief. If there's a chance they are correct...wouldn't we all want to know?

 

[Nasor]

We seem to have a large enough sample size to conclude that the vast majority of atheists think that people should be free to believe whatever they want. I'm guessing that if you took the same question to a christian message board and asked them if atheists should be free to not believe in a religion, the results would be much less one-sided.

 

[S.A.M.]

We seem to have a large enough sample size to conclude that the vast majority of atheists think that people should be free to believe whatever they want. I'm guessing that if you took the same question to a christian message board and asked them if atheists should be free to not believe in a religion, the results would be much less one-sided.

It takes only one atheist to ruin a good country. Mass murders on the basis of unbelief have been the domain of atheists especially in the twentieth century

*************
M*W: That goes for all religions, especially the Abrahamic ones. They are virtually evil. Anyone who professes devotion to the Abrahamic religions are evil. That goes for Christians, Muslims and Jews.

I suppose this is an example of the "secular humanism" of atheists.

 

[Nasor]

It takes only one atheist to ruin a good country. Mass murders on the basis of unbelief have been the domain of atheists especially in the twentieth century

Just like it only takes one theist to ruin a country and kill millions of people (e.g., Hitler).

Also, your claim is only true if you idiotically assume that all the mass murders carried out by dictators were motivated by atheism instead of, say, a thirst for absolute unopposed power. I know that sort of assumption makes it easy for you to make simple-minded arguments against atheism, but that's probably only going to make you look foolish in the eyes of people who actually paid attention in history class and have some understanding of what really motivated the communist leaders to kill or imprison the people who opposed them.

 

[S.A.M.]

Hitler was an atheist. You think atheists can't be anti-semitic?

 

[Crunchy Cat]

It takes only one atheist to ruin a good country. Mass murders on the basis of unbelief have been the domain of atheists especially in the twentieth century

Show me a mass murder in the name of atheism (not communism, not anti-religionism, etc. but atheism).

I suppose this is an example of the "secular humanism" of atheists.

Your own poll objectively shows her position to be the minority.

 

[SkinWalker]

Hitler was an atheist. You think atheists can't be anti-semitic?

Hitler is quoted directly in historical record as professing belief in the Christian God. Please discontinue trolling with fallacious claims that you haven't supported.

 

[Nasor]

Hitler was an atheist. You think atheists can't be anti-semitic?

Oh man, not this bullshit again. Read a freakin' history book. Hitler was an avowed Catholic his entire life. He often talked about how he was doing "the lord's work" in fighting the Jews. His hatred for the Jews was in large part a religious hatred. He made a special point to persecute the Greek Orthodox people in the countries that he conquered because he considered them to be heretics. Hitler was raised Christian, and even his earliest writings and speeches are full of religious rhetoric.

 

[Norsefire]

SkinWalker, do you believe everything people say? No? Then that is hardly evidence.

Hitler was an atheist; it's rather obvious. He used religion as a propaganda tool, to gain support, but I highly doubt he had any belief in God, any more than any of the terrorists today do. They just say they do to gain support. Hitler even has been quoted as wishing Islam, rather than Christianity, was the dominant German religion so that he could use the "warrior tradition".

 

[S.A.M.]

Hitler is quoted directly in historical record as professing belief in the Christian God. Please discontinue trolling with fallacious claims that you haven't supported.

Professed belief in public. His notions were supported by all "freethinkers" of the time. Eugenics was a science opposed by the Catholic Church.

 

[CheskiChips]

Oh man, not this bullshit again. Read a freakin' history book. Hitler was an avowed Catholic his entire life. He often talked about how he was doing "the lord's work" in fighting the Jews. His hatred for the Jews was in large part a religious hatred. He made a special point to persecute the Greek Orthodox people in the countries that he conquered because he considered them to be heretics. Hitler was raised Christian, and even his earliest writings and speeches are full of religious rhetoric.

Nasor, I think it's more likely that he was a Protestant than a Catholic even if he went to Catholic services (I don't know). Mostly because of his philosophies and his citations of Martin Luther (The Monk) and others like Martin Luther.

By the way, a more valid question should be:
Should entire nations be allowed to practice religious law, as long as those nations don't discriminate against other nations?
There you will find disagreements.

 

[Nasor]

SkinWalker, do you believe everything people say? No? Then that is hardly evidence.

Sorry, but there is a HUGE pile of evidence that he was a christian, and no one who seriously looks into it can conclude otherwise. You might not like that because it doesn't fit into your sad little "chrisians are good people and atheists are bad people" world view, but that doesn't change the historical facts.

 

[S.A.M.]

His private conversations do not support the notion.

See Hitler's Table Talk

http://www.amazon.com/Hitlers-Table-Talk-Adolf-Hitler/dp/1929631057

 

[SkinWalker]

SkinWalker, do you believe everything people say? No? Then that is hardly evidence.

In that case, then we have nothing at all to go on one way or the other with regard to Hitler's religiosity except probabilities. With that said, the majority of his peers, elders, and family were Christian and the probability is that Adolf Hitler, too, was a Christian.

Hitler was an atheist; it's rather obvious.

Really, and what makes this "obvious?" His autobiography? In Mein Kampf he clearly states that he is a believer and uses the vernacular of believers in superstitions like religion.

He used religion as a propaganda tool, to gain support,

Of course he did. Most political and religious leaders do. Why is this to be unexpected?

but I highly doubt he had any belief in God, any more than any of the terrorists today do.

This is called burying your head in the sand. You can "doubt" it, highly or otherwise, but this won't make the elephant leave the room or the emperor put on clothes.

 

[Norsefire]

In that case, then we have nothing at all to go on one way or the other with regard to Hitler's religiosity except probabilities. With that said, the majority of his peers, elders, and family were Christian and the probability is that Adolf Hitler, too, was a Christian.

He was NOT a Christian; he's even been quoted saying something along the lines of "Christianity is so soft and sappy" and wanting "to change the image of Christ to be a fighter agains the Jewish threat"

PROPAGANDA.