akoreamerican
Registered Senior Member
thank you for your opinion it saddens me to think you gave up on free will
Nonsense: Prove/Disprove existence of a god or gods
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Why ?
akoreamerican
Registered Senior Member
once you have taken the "path" of non belief and "chose" not to believe, you have given up your "will" to change your mind "freely". you have made yourself a robot that can only see non belief as reality and so have become "destined" never to believe. if there is no "proof" either way if god exist or not we have been given the "choice".
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kx000
Valued Senior Member
Unless its a passive faith.
akoreamerican
Registered Senior Member
more truth you become aware of on a subject, more free will to choose on that particular subject is lost, we had the most freedom when we were ignorant. when we chase after the truth, we are the taken on the path of finding god. god is truth. to say there is no god without proof you are violating the scientific method. if you say you believe in science and say there is no god you are in fact an hypocrite.
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So if they made a covenant, then God proved himself to them, and they no longer had free will, by your reasoning.
Yeah, but that's not what atheists say. They don't say there is definitely no God, only that there is no evidence of God, therefore it's irrational to believe it. So, there is most probably no God, just like there are most probably no leprechauns. Show me some evidence, and I'll consider it. (and not just elaborate justification why there can't be evidence).
Also, free will is the ability to make choices, it has nothing to do with knowledge.
akoreamerican
Registered Senior Member
how can you make choices without knowledge?
akoreamerican
Registered Senior Member
are you telling me you never went on a forum and wrote there is no god?
Easy, you just can't make good ones. There is a difference.
There isn't any God to the best of our knowledge. Just like there aren't any ghosts, leprechauns, or bigfoots to the best of our knowledge. But the definition of what a God is can be broad, and I can't absolutely rule out the possibility of some kind of God existing somewhere. But the Biblical God almost certainly doesn't exist.
akoreamerican
Registered Senior Member
even in unimformed decisions you still need knowledge, its just less of it
It's about the ability to choose your own actions. No one can remove your free will if you have it. No one can give you free will if you don't. You really need to read up on the concept.
akoreamerican
Registered Senior Member
this is the definition i found on the web "the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion." you need knowledge to carry out this task
you have to be aware of different paths you can take, you have to know that you are able to make that decision. you have to know how to carry out that decision. you have to know that you exist. those are all information
you have to be aware of different paths you can take, you have to know that you are able to make that decision. you have to know how to carry out that decision. you have to know that you exist. those are all information
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What someone who says, even to themselves, "there is no God" probably means is there is no creator of the universe, as far as science can say anything about it. This is in line with the modern notion that God has been "expelled" by science which instead provides a rational, verifiable set of ideas, "causes" with physical rather than mystical sources and so on.
But I believe there is a place that science hasn't really been yet, in which God has not been replaced with theories, which is your mind or consciousness. That means you and I can't really say there is no God. I claim it also means you can't really theorise about what God is, since you don't know enough about consciousness in a theoretical sense, nor does anyone else, to hypothesise whether consciousness of God is possible. But if it is, then there is a God even if most people are not conscious of this.
But I believe there is a place that science hasn't really been yet, in which God has not been replaced with theories, which is your mind or consciousness. That means you and I can't really say there is no God. I claim it also means you can't really theorise about what God is, since you don't know enough about consciousness in a theoretical sense, nor does anyone else, to hypothesise whether consciousness of God is possible. But if it is, then there is a God even if most people are not conscious of this.
That's not true. There's a significantly large study of the mind and consciousness from an empirical, scientific perspective. Particularly the intersection of cognitive psychology and neuroscience, but other fields and disciplines get in on the action.
To me, these don't necessarily displace the gods from a role in our consciousness. But that may be an idiosyncrasy of my theology, which views the gods as mostly passive forces behind natural phenomena--you don't notice them as separate from nature because they aren't separated in any conventionally measurable sense. Again, though, that's just my view as an animistic polytheist.
Regardless, you can't ignore the fact that there is a sizeable body of scientific work on the subject. Much of which is actually quite interesting and sound.
To me, these don't necessarily displace the gods from a role in our consciousness. But that may be an idiosyncrasy of my theology, which views the gods as mostly passive forces behind natural phenomena--you don't notice them as separate from nature because they aren't separated in any conventionally measurable sense. Again, though, that's just my view as an animistic polytheist.
Regardless, you can't ignore the fact that there is a sizeable body of scientific work on the subject. Much of which is actually quite interesting and sound.
Yes, I know. Have the neuroscientists decided what consciousness is and where it's located? Have they decided whether other animals are conscious (that is, self-aware)?Hapsburg said:
I think the answers there are: No, and no.
One can not give up that which one has never had.
But what has freewill got to do with proving the existence of god or not? Are some trying to equate the existence of freewill with the existence of god?
He claims gods will not show themselves because then we would not have free will to believe or not believe.
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I just told you I cannot choose to believe or not believe.
Funny how you describe theists yet claim it is about nonbelievers.
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