News From Gaza

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Billy T, could there be a way for the rockets to "hide" their initial launch point? They could shoot up, cut off the engines for a second, and then start up again, then you wouldn't be able to figure out where they were launched from. You could just angle the wings a little bit to make them shoot in a compound curve. Come to think of it, couldn't they just wait for a windy day?
 
LOL

Most are killed in their homes during indiscrimate raids-- but are still shot between the eyes?
Man that's good shooting for Tanks knocking down houses!

IDIOCY like the above post by S.A.M. is where criticizing Israeli policy crosses well into Freaked-out anti-semitism/demonization.

Sprechen Sie Deutsch? Parlez vous francais? hindi bolta hai kya? bangla bhuje? hal tataHaddath al arabiya?
 
Billy T, could there be a way for the rockets to "hide" their initial launch point? They could shoot up, cut off the engines for a second, and then start up again, then you wouldn't be able to figure out where they were launched from. You could just angle the wings a little bit to make them shoot in a compound curve. Come to think of it, couldn't they just wait for a windy day?
These rockets. I think are quite crude. Cannot restart their "engines" as they do not have any "engines." They are, I believe like the solid state boosters of NASA's space shuttle, only much simpler. Once you "lit them up," if they do not explode, the simply burn out. Likewise I do not think they have "wings." Even if they did, there is no guidance system. They are somewhat like the ones the Chinese employed about 1000 years ago, except they do have an explosive warhead. I.e. Just a tube of solid rocket fuel set on an inclined ramp which points them generally where the terrorist hope it will go. The whole city is the target but most still miss.

I am only guessing at all this from the few video pictures I have seen of launches and adding a little physics and some read "facts."

A modern area coverage radar system would discriminate the Doppler shifted returns (from the ground clutter etc.) and should be able to "back compute" the launch point from the trajectory of the first few seconds of the rocket's climb, I am almost sure.

I am not an expert in any of this. There may be some technical difficulties I do not know. But both sides in WWII and certainly the US in the Korean War did use "counter battery fire."* In WWII, instead of radar they used acoustics and triangulations. I.e. they heard the "boom" of the gun firing at them from several (at least two) separated locations and the time delays between these received sounds defines the "equi-difference in distance curve, for those two receiving stations. Add one more receiving station and you get at least one more curve, probably two. Where these curves intersect is the point that fired at you. It is much easier, faster and more accurate now - 70years later with radar and computers but basically the same idea.

There are two well separated problems. One is to shoot the rocket down and the CIWS, even first generation can easily do that. The other problem is "where was it launched from? The integrated fire control radar system can tell that in a couple of seconds after launch. The only way to defeat it would be to use a relative sophisticated missile that "hugs the ground" behind some radar shadow like a hill and after flying some distance at low altitude from the true launch site, turns up so the radar fire control back computes to that turn up point rather than the true launch site. -far beyond the technical capabilities of the Gaza missiles. You need something like the US's tomahawk missile for that, at least a smaller version with internal gyroscopes for reference, a programmed flight path, low and good altitude control etc. If the Palestinians had anything even close to that they would be shooting down the apache helicopter as that is an easier task.
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*Why standard proceedure is to "shoot and scoot" before the counter battery fire hit where you were. Modern artillery is alway on a mobile carrier. Have you seen pictures of Israel's? They are typical.
 
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Katusha rockets, gotcha. Don't we use patriot missile batteries to protect against those?
Certainly could; but would be expensive compared to CIWS's bullets. An "overkill" on the crude Gaza rockets. Patriot missile batteries are needed for high speed objects that are falling back to Earth from outside the atmosphere - like ICBMs. To use them on a Gaza rockets is like opening peanuts with sledge hammer or one of the automobile company's machines used for stamping out parts for a car. - way too much "overkill" and cost.

BTW, I am glad to see you at least thinking about my suggestion for a Defensive alternative to the High Kill Ratio Retaliatory policy, which has failed for 40+ years and is only generating more willing suicide bombers than it kills, etc. A few more year of it I predict, when combined with the US's financial problems, will mean the end of all aid to Israel. The High Kill Ratio Retaliatory policy instead of defense is a very counterproductive choice Israel's leaders have made, IMHO.

I wish a few more would think about both the defensive alternative and the long term consequences the High Kill Ratio Retaliatory policy is making.
 
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IDF: Hamas creating phony humanitarian crisis

Senior officer: Terror group creates false display of suffering in order to score points

Hanan Greenberg

Hamas is presenting a distorted picture of reality in the Gaza Strip and creating a phony humanitarian crisis in order to score points, a senior IDF officer charged Thursday evening.

Referring to the latest terror attack at Nahal Oz, Colonel Nir Press, who heads the Erez Crossing Coordination Office, told Ynet that the attack is part of the campaign led by Hamas, aimed at "creating a false display of crisis in order to gain international legitimacy."

The claims made by Hamas regarding a supposed humanitarian crisis in the Strip have turned out to be false,
Press said.

"The buds of this phenomenon emerged at the end of 2007, when we heard claims that gas used by hospitals in Gaza has run out, making it impossible to use operation rooms," the senior officer said. "We immediately brought in large quantities… Hamas' objective in that case was to direct an accusatory finger at Israel, as if it undermines the operation of hospitals."

'We have Nothing against Palestinian civilians'
Press said Hamas established a special body, The Popular Committee for Fighting the Siege on the Gaza Strip, in order to make accusations against Israel.

"For example, they started to count the number of patients who died of disease in the Strip and blamed us for failing to provide treatment," he said. "When the list reached 60 people we undertook a thorough examination and discovered that 20 of them were treated in Israel, while the rest did not even ask to enter Israel for treatment."

"In the past year, the defense establishment allowed more than 7,000 patients and a similar number of escorts to enter Israel for treatment," he said. "Had these 40 patients asked for it, they would have received the same permit."


"Hamas realizes that its situation on the Palestinian street is difficult, and every such accusation resonates in the media and creates international support," Press added. "In reality, the ones who cut off the electricity supply in January were Hamas."

Press also stressed that Israel has no interest in creating a humanitarian crisis in the Strip.

"At the end of the day we have nothing against the Palestinian population," he said. "We're not fighting it, but rather, the terror groups. It is sad to see those engaged in terror using innocent civilians in order to gain power."

ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3530338,00.html
 
The IDF is hardly a "source" to be trusted. They sniper children, for Gods sakes. :mad:


News today
The Israel Defense Forces has opened an investigation into allegations that 46 Palestinians were detained for no reason at a West Bank checkpoint for 16 hours last week, and their car tires punctured. The human rights group MachsomWatch (which overlooks IDF activity at checkpoints) filed a complaint about the incident with the army.

The Palestinians were detained early in the morning, and kept standing for hours, on the grounds that "when they sit down they make trouble." They were barred from using the restrooms adjacent to the checkpoint, compelling them to use the thorny field, in plain view of those passing through the checkpoint. They were not permitted to eat and were given only water. Requests to take medication, sit down, or lean back were met with contempt or disregard by the soldiers.

In addition, the detainees' car tires were punctured in the parking lot, and some cars had speakers broken and pedals severely damaged, the report said.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/974462.html

Bet they do nothing about it. Or maybe reward the soldiers with a few thousand shekels.
 
...ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3530338,00.html
Unlike SAM's reference, your link is either bogus of defective. Can you give a reference for your claims / story that actually works?

Her first link is a long article, which includes about a dozen specific cases and lots of evidence, collected by the NYC Village Voice's* on the scene reporter. The last case presented in the article is:

"... Mohammed Mahmoud Abu Fodeh, at 22, is already a veteran of the Palestinian struggle. Now, he lies in a bed in Amman's Specialty Physiotherapy Hospital, after being shot twice while protesting at the checkpoint between Jericho and the Allenby Bridge into Jordan. One high-velocity bullet lodged in his left shoulder. Another pierced a lung. His friends thought he was dead, until they saw him crawling toward the ambulance. The bullet from his chest rests in a jar beside his bed, "for memory and for evidence," he says.

"We're not afraid of their bullets, but they fear our stones," he says. "God gave us the stone—it has God's will in it. It's all we have.

"The stone has awakened the Arab world, from the leaders to the laymen," he says. "This is only the beginning." ..."

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*Glad to know it still exists.
 
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Unlike SAM's reference, your link is either bogus of defective. Can you give a reference for your claims / story that actually works?
....

I don't have 20 posts yet so it won't let me post links. I did my best to attribute it.

Did ya ever think of maybe adding your own 'www'? Duh!

And unlike the Arab/Palestinian Press you can get Both sides from the Israeli press.

Ha'aretz, for instance, as Non-beginners know, has many virulent Anti-Israel editorialists like Eldar, Gideon Levy, and Amira Hass... who themselves are "Not to be Trusted".
 
I don't have 20 posts yet so it won't let me post links. I did my best to attribute it.

Did ya ever think of maybe adding your own 'www'? Duh!

And unlike the Arab/Palestinian Press you can get Both sides from the Israeli press.

Ha'aretz, for instance, as Non-beginners know, has many virulent Anti-Israel editorialists like Eldar, Gideon Levy, and Amira Hass... who themselves are "Not to be Trusted".

bullshit the only sources that can be trusted are 3rd party sources
 
bullshit the only sources that can be trusted are 3rd party sources

On the Contrary, and as I just pointed out-- even the Arab side Regularly quotes the Israeli press, and 'Peace groups' -- while NO such diversity exists on the palestinian side.

Try and be responsive next time instead of just making yourself look .. well... like your are by your own admission:
"i am an @$$hole deal with it".
 
i.bel: "NO such diversity exists on the palestinian side."

Welcome to Sciforums. How ignorant you seem. Perhaps you could read what Edward said, and then get back to us with a more informed viewpoint.
 
The IDF is hardly a "source" to be trusted. They sniper children, for Gods sakes. :mad:

Crikey! Look at that fake outrage! You magnificent specimen, you! It's so fascinating seeing you in your natural habitat :p

steve-irwin-dead.jpg
 
Crikey! Look at that fake outrage!
I have no idea what your man with alligator diversion has to do with subject, but SAM's link you are calling "fake" is a report by well-known old NYC publication, The Village Voice". (You give no support for your "Its a fake." assertion.)

Certainly it is possible that it is a fake but not very plausible. The Village Voice" is at least 50 years old and has much too much to lose if ever caught faking the news. It does* tend to "lean left" as it based in and supported by the NYC Greenwich Village artistic community, which BTW includes a disproportionate percentage of Jews. (Jews have for centuries been over represented in the performing arts, especially music, as their emphases on education makes them an exceptionally creative people, on average.)

Why, (other than to try to discredit ugly facts about Israel) do you say "It's a fake"? Have you even the slightest shred of evidence for this extremely unlikely / highly implausible assertion?
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*I have not read The Village Voice" for 30 years, so above is based on old information, but “institutions” such as The Village Voice" seldom change. They have their “artistic nitch.” If it were abandoned, they would go under trying to find a new one. There is just too much competition in NYC.
 
SAM's outrage is fake. There's no point in explaining as I've written about it countless times and got exactly nowhere. There's nothing left to do but to ridicule :)
 
Hi Billy T,

How many neutral (read trustworthy) and independent sources does sam provide to support his claims? How many such sources do you require to believe them? Let me give you an example of how strict news organizations about this. Even though the new york times requires five such sources with at least two of them willing to go on the record if absolutely necessary, other organizations view the new york times as just a single source and must get their own independent sources, even if they`re the same ones the new york times uses, in which case they say they've verified these sources.
 
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