News From Gaza

[Mr.Spock]

Most are launched for fields, olive groves etc. That is why at present Israeli uses these areas and the beach area as targets for the routine daily artillery shelling practices. Occasionally someone is killed by chance - but as it is routine, it seldom makes any newspaper - only when one shell killed an entire family making a picnic on the beach last year or similar event will you hear about this regular artillery practice.

it was never proven it was from an israeli shell. since the palestinians are known to blame israel for things it did not even do, they are not considered reliable.

there is no random shelling in gaza. thats just another billy t fantasy. in fact, israel has not retaliated for months now, even after massive grad attacks.

 

[(Q)]

generally behave in a Muslimmy way

That is the phrase in which strict adherence to definition is relevant. Behaving in a Muslimmy way currently involves violating human rights. So yes, they would be at fault for trying to join societies that regard the violation of human rights as a violation. In that regard, yes, everyone should be the same.

 

[Mr.Spock]

Easy to achieve with technology of 40 years ago, but admittedly there are only enough of the mobile artillery pieces to station at least a dozen along the section of the Gaza/Israeli border where the rockets have range to reach an Israeli city. Small communities of asy100 or less people total would be protect by the Israeli air force, not the automatic artillery counter battery fire. As they are small targets and the rockets are unguided the terrorist would need to fire more than a dozen to have even a 10% chance of killing an Israeli. Before that 12th is launched, the Israeli air force would have better than a 90% chance of killing several terrorists if not all in the area. My plan is not perfect, but even with this defect its failure is just to return to the "kill several" for every dead Israeli policy of today.

if you are so sure about that - why have you never taken this to israeli defense?

it would be a lot easier to claim it is on purpose then wouldnt it?

 

[Billy T]

it was never proven it was from an israeli shell. since the palestinians are known to blame israel for things it did not even do, they are not considered reliable.

there is no random shelling in gaza. thats just another billy t fantasy. in fact, israel has not retaliated for months now, even after massive grad attacks.

I only know that a retired US army expert (his military career was spent investigating "friendly fire accidents") went to site and concluded it was an artillery shell as did two separate teams for Scandinavian countries I forget which - one was from Norway, I think.

As far as whether or not there is currently "routine artillery target practice with fields and beach of Gaza as the target I do not know. My information that it was the common practice at the time of the beach accident comes directly from the mouth of the Israeli army's spokes persons the day following (might have been two days later) in the press conference. It was shortly after Israeli abandoned the really stupid* initial claim that it was a land mine had been planted by the resistance to prevent an Israeli invasion form the sea.

It was a well organized presentation made available to the world's TV -That is how I watched it. Lots of charts showing exactly where 13 of the 14 shells fired in that practice exercise fell (Terrible PR mistake as it demand the question: "And where did no.14 fall?") During that presentation, it was claimed that the entire exercise was over 5 hours before the family was killed on the beach. I am willing to believe that is true. I suspect what happen was the 14th shell was a "dud" the one of the children digging in the sand found and set it off. Also during that presentation the PR man of the army said that Israel was careful to make sure the target practice areas they used were unoccupied, If he said "by area over flights" or not I do not now remember, but I assume that is how. The shelling was routine target practice he said, done with the usual care. That Israel would investigate to learn what happened but that Israel was not responsible as the guns were silent five hours earlier.

---
*Stupid as Israel can and does invade Gaza anytime and nay place it likes with tanks and trucks - Thus no one would mine the beach. Invasion from the sea has al lot of risks just form the waves etc.

 

[Mr.Spock]

I only know that a retired US army expert (his military career was spent investigating "friendly fire accidents") went to site and concluded it was an artillery shell as did two separate teams for Scandinavian countries I forget which - one was from Norway, I think.

As far as whether or not there is currently "routine artillery target practice with fields and beach of Gaza as the target I do not know. My information that it was the common practice at the time of the beach accident comes directly from the mouth of the Israeli army's spokes persons the day following (might have been two days later) in the press conference. It was shortly after Israeli abandoned the really stupid* initial claim that it was a land mine had been planted by the resistance to prevent an Israeli invasion form the sea.

It was a well organized presentation made available to the world's TV -That is how I watched it. Lots of charts showing exactly where 13 of the 14 shells fired in that practice exercise fell (Terrible PR mistake as it demand the question: "And where did no.14 fall?") During that presentation, it was claimed that the entire exercise was over 5 hours before the family was killed on the beach. I am willing to believe that is true. I suspect what happen was the 14th shell was a "dud" the one of the children digging in the sand found and set it off. Also during that presentation the PR man of the army said that Israel was careful to make sure the target practice areas they used were unoccupied, If he said "by area over flights" or not I do not now remember, but I assume that is how. The shelling was routine target practice he said, done with the usual care. That Israel would investigate to learn what happened but that Israel was not responsible as the guns were silent five hours earlier.

---
*Stupid as Israel can and does invade Gaza anytime and nay place it likes with tanks and trucks - Thus no one would mine the beach. Invasion from the sea has al lot of risks just form the waves etc.

there is no such thing as an independent investigation-someone payed them. now as for the rest, as i recall the army knew every shell dropping. other then your vast underestimation o the israeli army policy, i am glad to say there was no such policy of just ordinary shelling. further that particular shelling was done at the a fire source of a kassam rocket-it wasnt grad at that time. one fact that remains, was the time differences between the shelling and the beach incident.

in the end i do not beileve a word the palestinians say. they are well known liars-there are many incidents in which they have blamed israel on purpose as PR tactics. one recently was the jihadist who died from a work accident.

 

[Billy T]

if you are so sure about that - why have you never taken this to Israeli defense? ....

Unlike some, I always try to answer direct questions:

There are several reasons. Here are the two main ones:
(1) I am quite sure the IDF knows it capabilities and options much better than I do. Thus it would be arrogance for me to try to tell them what to do. (More importantly, although they do "TAKE ORDERS" they do not take them from me.)

(2) The decision as to whether a RETALITORY or defensive plan is to be followed is not a military decision. It is the Israeli government that decides this question. Thus posting the DEFENSIVE alternative here is the most effective thing I can do. Many read here, including some Israeli voters.

I am strongly of the opinion that they have, as politician often do, looked mainly a short distance into the future (To the next election, only usually). There is nice set of about 8 articles on the internal political divisions in Israel in the current issue of the Economist you should read. It points out a serious economic danger to Israel in the coming decade as the secular Israelis become a minority. - Many are already planning to leave when the religious right gains full control of the government - puts into civil law the Jewish laws such as "no work on the Sabbath," etc. It is the creative brain power of these secular Israelis that is the foundation of the Israeli economy. I leaned from an Economist article discussing this that tiny Israel has more NASDAQ listed high tech companies than all other countries except two (US and Germany or Japan, if forget which just now. I have always admired the Jews for this love of learning but not until now fully appreciated how important it is economically to the very survival of Israel. - I own stock in Teva - world's largest seller of generic drugs but they and several others are too big to be listed on the NASDAQ. At the other extreme, I own stock in tiny GCAM as I like their approach to the problem of skin cancer and from time to time, several other Israel companies, one was selling an RF+ laser system to improve the looks of women's skin. - System worked better than either alone but I sold it year or so ago. I cannot remember its name now.)

A lot of bright ideas come out of Israel - It mystifies me how hate can block what appears to be so much better plan for Israel in the longer term than the current counter-productive high-kill-ratio RETALITORY policy.

BTW, There is a direct question as first sentence in the bold paragraph of post 900 I would like you to answer, (I bet you will ignore it too, but even if I can just get you too read and think about it, that might help Israeli someday when you are less filled with hate and can think rationally.)

 

[Mr.Spock]

so actually you are saying it is a lot easier to just bash and blame israel other then to propose real ideas to influential people. i agree, when your intention is to just bash, that is much more easy.

since you were so sure i was an israeli propaganda machine, not that long ago(you never ever gave me some slack, not even after i voted no on your banning, and even tried to make everyone ignore me-but then said i should give SAM some), if you really thought that was the case, it was a good opportunity to present and convince me you are right.

since it is obvious you are ignorant of the conflict(your knowledge only reached as far as 1945), and the real situation in israel, and your lack of desire to learn (which is evident when you compared israelis to NAZIS and your desire to make everyone ignore me), i do not take you seriously.

 

[pjdude1219]

so actually you are saying it is a lot easier to just bash and blame israel other then to propose real ideas to influential people. i agree, when your intention is to just bash, that is much more easy.

since you were so sure i was an israeli propaganda machine, not that long ago(you never ever gave me some slack, not even after i voted no on your banning, and even tried to make everyone ignore me-but then said i should give SAM some), if you really thought that was the case, it was a good opportunity to present and convince me you are right.

since it is obvious you are ignorant of the conflict(your knowledge only reached as far as 1945), and the real situation in israel, and your lack of desire to learn (which is evident when you compared israelis to NAZIS and your desire to make everyone ignore me), i do not take you seriously.

well the fact that you act as if Israel has never done anything of questionable morality tends to make people think of you as a progandist. I am ever country has done shit that isn't exactly moral or ethical.

 

[Mr.Spock]

well the fact that you act as if Israel has never done anything of questionable morality tends to make people think of you as a progandist. I am ever country has done shit that isn't exactly moral or ethical.

then you can take billy T advise and ignore me.

of course what i found funny, is that anti israelis never have anything GOOD to say on israel.

for example, israel hi tech companies

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herzliya_Pituah

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amdocs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comverse_Technology

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Check_Point

 

[Billy T]

...evident when you compared israelis to NAZIS ...

Just as an illustration of how your hate has made it impossible for you to think rationally consider carefully what you have posted above:

I said: “collective punishment” is – “very Nazi like”

Above you say “I comparedIsraelis to NAZIS”

This can only be true, logically, if you are admitting Israelis are doing “collective punishment”

I.e. in your thought process, Israelis = “collective punishment”.

If, as I think, that you do not desire to may this identity, you must be quite incapable of logical thought.


Now I may be wrong in asserting that it is your extreme hate is what has caused this mental incapacity, but not in the conclusion that you suffer from a lack of ability to think rationally for some reason.

BTW, I am still waiting for reply to qestion in first sentence of Post 900's bold paragraph. No logical though ids required, Just a "Yes" or "No" answer will do, but if you wish to comment after giving one of those possible binary replies, please do so.

 

[pjdude1219]

then you can take billy T advise and ignore me.

of course what i found funny, is that anti israelis never have anything GOOD to say on israel.

for example, israel hi tech companies

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herzliya_Pituah

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amdocs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comverse_Technology

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Check_Point

israel as done good things and one thing i like about jewish culture is it is like some of the asian cuontries. learning is looked at as one of the highest callings that a member of society can do.

 

[Mr.Spock]

I do not think the David and Goliath story is 100% myth, a "fairy tale."

I think Israel learned from Hitler not to try to exterminate a people too quickly, and best of all, to try to make it appear that they are committing suicide - doing it to their incompetent selves. That way the world will only protest occasionally or UN only pass a few resolutions of condemnation. The process of extermination can continue, but slowly; Unfortunately, Israel must let the terrorists kill a few Israelis every year to justify the High Kill Ratios, the periodic shutting off of electric power, the collection and holding of their taxes, the periodic expansion, especially into the mountain aquifer with the new "security wall," the permanent closing of all airports etc. etc.

Thus these smart people learned how to get away with the extermination that the world was to "Never Again" let happen. Israel could and did exterminate the Negev Bedouins more quickly (at least their culture has been exterminated even if only about 80% of the Bedouins are dead or dispersted to other lands, at present.) as they were already self-isolating and without any allies.

If there is any "fairy tale" here, it is your idea that the US will cut off all aid to Israel, stop sending them parts for their US helicopters or the missiles they fire into Palestinian apartment buildings etc. (All in "self defense", of course, as required by US laws.)

From their POV, you have to admit they are proceeding with their program, brilliantly. So brilliantly that the world will probably "Never Again" stops them from killing or driving into other lands ALL of the Palestinians, and eventually gaining 100% of their lands. Disgusting, but brilliant, simply brilliant.

What may stop Israel in a decade or so, is a much smaller force than Israel - microscopically smaller! (Actually too small even to be seen with an optical microscope.) A virus. Perhaps the Ebola virus in aerosol form thrown from a high rise window in Tele Aviv by a suicide terrorist who calmly walks away, happy to be soon be collecting his Martyr’s reward.

too bad your views on israel and your ideas on how to stop them is well documented. not only you compared israel to NAZIS, but you have a plan how to stop them-which is why i think you are NAZI yourself.

 

[Mr.Spock]

israel as done good things and one thing i like about jewish culture is it is like some of the asian cuontries. learning is looked at as one of the highest callings that a member of society can do.

and you also think people like me are the reason jews are hated

 

[Billy T]

and you also think people like me are the reason Jews are hated

I have repeatedly told you I admire most Jews (there are a few exceptions) I even like that there is an Israel, if they would compensated the Palestinians displaced from their homes. I.e. I oppose the "right of return." (As do now most Palestinians, according to several studies.)

What I hate and do not understand, is how such a well-educated, intelligent population of a democratic country can chose the RETALITORY high kill ratio response*, which has failed for 40+ years over a DEFENSIVE plan which would save many innocent lives and essentially eliminate all capacity for terrorist to kill Israelis, perhaps even their motive for doing so if "step 1" of my plan were implemented.

-------------------
*Clearly is reducing the security of Israel when Ebola or something like it is weaponized and given to some "martyrs" to toss from a Tel Aviv high rise window. IMHO, people like you, too filled with hate to think clearly, are the real long term danger to Israel's existence. The terrorists will never with explosive kill even 10% as many Israelis as Israelis do with their car accidents! To kill a significant number from an existence of the state POV **will take something like Ebola, but making that will cost Iran or someone else less than 0.1% of what making a nuclear bomb would.

**Every death is highly significant to someone - For example yester day to 10year old Riyad Owayssi's crying mother or the wife of one of the two Israelis killed the day before. Israel, for its own long term survival, IMHO, needs to drop the RETALITORY policy and adopt a DEFENSIVE one /plan.

 

[Mr.Spock]

I have repeatedly told you I admire most Jews (there are a few exceptions) I even like that there is an Israel, if they would compensated the Palestinians displaced from their homes. I.e. I oppose the "right of return." (As do now most Palestinians, according to several studies.)

What I hate and do not understand, is how such a well-educated, intelligent population of a democratic country can chose the RETALITORY high kill ratio response*, which has failed for 40+ years over a DEFENSIVE plan which would save many innocent lives and essentially eliminate all capacity for terrorist to kill Israelis, perhaps even their motive for doing so if "step 1" of my plan were implemented.

-------------------
*Clearly is reducing the security of Israel when Ebola or something like it is weaponized and given to some "martyrs" to toss from a Tel Aviv high rise window. IMHO, people like you, too filled with hate to think clearly, are the real long term danger to Israel's existance. The terrorists will never with explosive kill even 10% as many Israelis as Israelis do with their car accidents! To kill a significant number from an existance of the state POV **will take somethin like Ebola, but making that will cost Iran or someone ellse less than 0.1% of making a nuclear bomb would.

**Every death is highly significant to someone - For example yester day to 10year old Riyad Owayssi's crying mother or the wife of one of the two Israelis killed the day before. Israel, for its own long term survival, IMHO, needs to drop the RETALITORY policy and adopt a DEFENSIVE one /plan.

you are a funny guy. first you call me ilogical, and lie about not comparing israelis to NAZIS, now you want me to tell you are alright beacuse you insist you admire jews

and you actually looking forward to israeli dying from abolla virus just to prove your point-shows exactly the type of man you are.

i said it before, i dont take you seriously.

 

[pjdude1219]

you are a funny guy. first you call me ilogical, and lie about not comparing israelis to NAZIS, now you want me to tell you are alright beacuse you insist you admire jews

and you actually looking forward to israeli dying from abolla virus just to prove your point-shows exactly the type of man you are.

i said it before, i dont take you seriously.

um in billy's defense he never said he was looking foward to a biological attack he was saying that with the current mind set of both sides a biological attack is probably inevitable

 

[Mr.Spock]

um in billy's defense he never said he was looking foward to a biological attack he was saying that with the current mind set of both sides a biological attack is probably inevitable

he said it to me once in great expectation and delight as to prove to me israel doesnt want to protect its citizens, and to show he is right.

 

[pjdude1219]

and you also think people like me are the reason jews are hated

not the only reason a reason

 

[i.bel]

I do not remember now. It was common knowledge. No one disputes it.

I did omit one detail, which detracts from point I was making. The Palestine Authority did not object to this distruction of housing. Those houses were much nicer than it can provide and in the best locations, of course. The PA, which no longer has power in Gaza, was considering building public housing, much more modest and higher density. If they did that, then they would have destroyed the relatively fancy Jewish homes. - Why they did not object.
;;;;;;;
PS2 Sorry if I bored you. - I love to teach and can not restrain myself.

"Common Knowledge"?

Like "Genocide" right?

LOL

 

[i.bel]

Most children who are shot are shot in the head, many in their eyes.

“The majority of these [Palestinian] children were killed and injured while going about normal daily activities, such as going to school, playing, shopping, or simply being in their homes. Sixty-four percent of children killed during the first six months of 2003 died as a result of Israeli air and ground attacks, or from indiscriminate fire from Israeli soldiers.”​

LOL

Most are killed in their homes during indiscrimate raids-- but are still shot between the eyes?
Man that's good shooting for Tanks knocking down houses!

IDIOCY like the above post by S.A.M. is where criticizing Israeli policy crosses well into Freaked-out anti-semitism/demonization.​