i quoted it once for geoff i think. she said it numerous time - the holocaust happened because the jews lived separately.
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i quoted it once for geoff i think. she said it numerous time - the holocaust happened because the jews lived separately.
Where is any post? Re-asserting is not persuasive. You made a very serious charge - back it up.
PS Baltimore, like most port cities, is full of etnic districts. No one does any thing bad to any of them. Strangely, there is no "China town" but at least a dozen well-defined,distinct "Euro towns." My older 12 year daugher played the organ (very badly) in the Norwegian church for a few months, as they were despirate for anyone who could. We were not religious, but went there occasionally to help keep her Norwegian alive.
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here several examples
and finally after a long search:
and finally after a long search:
I doubt its Islamic philosophy per se, like I said conversion is frowned upon in conservative societies. This is as true for the Hindus (who frown upon Dalits converting to Christianity, Buddhism or Islam) as it for Zoroastrians in India who maintain their "pure" bloodline by excommunicating anyone who marries a non-Parsi or converts to another religion.
No doubt there are advantages to being the majority in a population, most Europeans would prefer Muslim immigrants to assimilate rather than maintain their separate culture; one reason why Jews have faced discrimination throughout the ages is their desire to maintain a separate Jewishness, which culminated in the Holocaust and the establishment of Israel.
I think it is a tendency for those with the upper hand to attempt to convert those with beliefs that they consider inferior to their own. The reverse is considered shocking, like the inability for say, a European parent to understand a daughter converting to Islam and wearing a hijab.
In any case, that was not what the opening post was about.
edit: an interesting article.
http://www.hvk.org/articles/1103/75.html
dont get excited. you said israelis are NAZI like, i think you are a NAZI like because you hate israelis and jews. why only you can compare others to NAZIS?
you do know the way you have that written makes you sound like a valley girl.
whats a valley girl? and are they hot?
"The term Valley Girl originally referred to rich teen-aged girls and young women living in the neighborhoods of the San Fernando Valley area of Los Angeles, California. Val is the short-hand form of the term."
i wish i was rich
valley girls is term for girls that are good looking but air heads live in southern california. ever see the movie clueless.
Thanks, I appreciate your taking the time and effort to dig them up.
I think you could cut her a little slack on even this, the most supportive of your claim about her. There is nothing false about that, but certainly it is "one sided" in that it does not tell why it is true that Jews do and did tend to live in Ghettos. - I gave some of the reasons for their isolation in my post. IMHO, there is more blame on those who were envois of Jews than on the Jews for these Ghettos - Sometimes long ago, staying in the Ghettos was even required by the law. (I think there is a reference to this law in Shakespeare’s Merchant of Venus, but am not sure.)
You are not beyond being "one-side" (to put it mildly) in your posts either. I am quite lazy about references, but in appreciation I will try to find back-up for one of my statements about the Negev Bedouins. Quote the one you wish me to support, and I will try. Ironically as I recall, it was a reference of yours, I think, that firs made me aware of the Jewish/ Bedouin association or something like that it was called. Other than that I only have my memory of the BBC documentary I watched on TV.
i have no intention to "cut her some slack" as it is obvious she hate jews. not only her insight over the holocaust but along other statements on jews-one of them to be that it is no surprise jews are hated throwout the world, as well as hwer attempts to provoke me by using the holocaust.
No - I actually admire many Jews and most of the Jewish culture.* I do hate the high kill ratio RETALITORY policy Israel has chosen, as there is a DEFENSIVE alternative that would very significantly reduce (if not total eliminate) the loss of innocent live.
I am all for killing the terrorists. - Why wait for them to die of old age? The only way there will be peace IMHO if for them and I am sad to say, people like you to die of old age during a bout two generation of security behind the protection of an effective defense -something like the one I proposed long ago. - You might recall in that I hoped for and tried to design a counter-fire (to the Gaza rockets) very-prompt, automatic, artillery system that would "shred any living thing at the site of the rocket launch."
It is basically impossible for someone who loves both learning and to teach, who is a Ph.D. physicists and later worked with doctors for 30 years at the JHU hospital to "hate Jews." There are a couple I have hated, but almost all I either admire or am neutral towards. As a graduate student, I often went folk dancing at the Jewish community center on Riesertown road in Baltimore. I married a Norwegian and now a Brazilian. I like most non-Americans I have met at universities or during my work. - Especially the Jews I have known as they are, like me, academically oriented.
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* I suspect I know more of Jewish law/ tradition than you do. I lived in the Rabbi's house for a month, later was his guest at the passover family dinner once (A very rare honor - that made some of his flock mad at him). You did not tell me the rule by which you know that you have used enough water (in the water scares lands) to comply with the rule you must wash your hands even after I gave you the hint "elbow." I do not think you are either a very knowledgalbe Jew or doing anything good for Israel with your post here. I clearly have been trying to help Israel. - Sometimes speaking out aginst what Israel is doing wrong is the best way to help. - Certainly better than your "Israel right or worng" POV.
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If the launching site for the rockets is in a civilian area, then you haven't changed anything.
try and tell them you think israel treatment of bedoiuns is similar to the NAZI extermination in the holocaust. i wonder what their response will be
Hi Billy!
I personally see nothing wrong with the desire to maintain a cultural identity. It is how we Indians have always lived. Do you think the Parsis maintaining a distinct culture through thousands of years in India was a bad thing? I don't think so. Similarly, the Jews who escaped persecution of the Romans and came to India (in fact Mumbai, my city of birth) also immediately opened a Jewish colony, like the Parsis opened a Parsi colony. They still have small colonies originating from the original ones.
Like this:
Kurla Bene Israel
275 C.S.T. Rd, Jewish Colony, Kurla (W) Mumbai, India
This is perfectly acceptable in India where no one cares how conservative or distinct you wish to be. Infact Jews who came at different time periods are also separate from each other , just like the Parsis who came to India before Islam came to Iran and the Iranians who came to India after Islam came to Iran, consider themselves as separate and distinct groups.
Jews in India:
1. The Cochin Jews arrived in India 2,500 years ago and settled down in Cochin, Kerala as traders.
2. The Bene Israel arrived in the state of Maharashtra 2,100 years ago.
3. The Baghdadi Jews arrived in the city Mumbai from Iraq, Iran, and Afghanistan, and Arab countries about 250 years ago.
4. The Bnei Menashe are Mizo and Kuki tribesmen in Manipur and Mizoram who claim descent from the tribe of Menasseh.
5. The Bene Ephraim (also called Telugu Jews) are a small group who speak Telugu; their observance of Judaism dates to 1981.
The irony is that Jews in India all speak the local lingo and are indistinguishable from the main. Which proves to me that less discrimination equals greater assimilation.
However, as you can see from the current "discussion" on Muslims who do not "assimilate" ie wish to maintain distinct cultural identity in western nations, this is a big problem in the western culture, where lack of assimilation leads to discrimination, isolation, demonisation and finally targeting.
I do not blame the Jews for their natural desire to follow their cultural ways. Its just not the kind of thing that people in western countries are prone to appreciate.
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I do not blame the Jews for their natural desire to follow their cultural ways. Its just not the kind of thing that people in western countries are prone to appreciate.
but you do think this is the reason jews were hated-"which culminated in the holocaust". other then its shows your ignorant on the history of European jews, it also means that the jews are at fault for the hatred towered them, from your POV. you cant deny that, because you have admitted it - " I did not define their self segregation, they did. Unlike cultures of the East, segregation is offensive in the west, unless it is vindicated by national borders. Which is why nationalism has worked so well in the west, but its import into the east has not been as successful."
in other words jews should have known it would result in the holocaust because of their segregation.
and i didnt even mentioned your others insight on jews and the holocaust.
Do you think Muslims in Europe who want to wear hijab, build mosques and generally behave in a Muslimmy way are at fault for not conforming to the European society? Or should the European society be faulted for wanting everyone to be the same?
the muslim subject in europe is different, as it is to my knowledge they are not interested in just living their customs but to impose them on the west.
that being said, this is unrelated, as we are talking about the jews and their history in europe, which you know nothing about, making you to assert it was their fault the holocaust has happened, which is evident of your true feelings towered jews.
but you are in good company in sci forum-there are many here who feel the same about jews.
Most are launched for fields, olive groves etc. That is why at present Israeli uses these areas and the beach area as targets for the routine daily artillery shelling practices. Occasionally someone is killed by chance - but as it is routine, it seldom makes any newspaper - only when one shell killed an entire family making a picnic on the beach last year or similar event will you hear about this regular artillery practice.
Here is how I think it probably will make a difference:
If the counter rocket launch site fire were very fully automated so that within 30 seconds of the first rocket launch* living creatures, terrorists, dogs, cows, and innocent people who happened to be near the launch site were "shredded" then some innocents might be killed a few times, until all know of the new Israeli artillery policy. I.e. instead of the current routine random shelling of 20 to 40 rounds a day Israel only fires artillery shells at the launch site, then I think the terrorist would be clearly and solely responsible for the deaths of innocent that they might force to be "human shields" tied to stakes driven in the ground etc at the launch site. If all knew there was 95+ % than at least 6 artillery shells would explode at that launch site in about 20 seconds after first launch, it would be necessary to have the "human shields" tied to stakes etc. I think it would also be impossible for the terrorists to creditably blame Israel for the deaths of these "human shields." I want to undermine the current popular support of the typical Palestinian for the terrorists. Israel's collective punishment, random shelling etc does exactly the opposite. Please hope Israel adopts a policy to eliminate rather than strengthen the popular support for the terrorist.
As the last 50 years have proven, Israel will never eliminate the terrorist by killing them so long as the method Israel uses kills more sub-teenage girls than all Israelis killed by terrorist. (One 10 year old girl and four children of sex not specified** are in critical condition, form Israeli actions of yesterday in Gaza - perhaps 4 terrorist were killed by that retaliation for the two Israelis killed by terrorists.
Do you honestly think the number of terrorists willing to become suicide bombers etc. was reduced by killing those four terrorists? - I do not. I think that at least a dozen, perhaps some related to those innocent children, were created yesterday. Israeli's high-kill-ratio RETALITORY policy is the best recruiting tool the terrorist have. If Israel wants to reduce the number of terrorists, let hope the terrorists are stupid enough to tie innocent "human shields" to stakes at their rocket launch sites.
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*Easy to achieve with technology of 40 years ago, but admittedly there are only enough of the mobile artillery pieces to station at least a dozen along ALL sections of the Gaza/Israeli border where the rockets have range to reach any Israeli city. Small communities of say100 or less people total, would be protect by the Israeli Air Force, not the automatic artillery counter battery fire. (The IAF would, of course, be partr of the radar net and know the target location in less than 5 seconds after first rocket launch.) As they are small targets and the rockets are unguided the terrorist would need to fire more than a dozen to have even a 10% chance of killing an Israeli. Before that 12th is launched, the Israeli air force would have better than a 90% chance of killing several terrorists if not all in the area. My plan is not perfect, but even with this defect its failure is just to return to the "kill several" for every dead Israeli policy of today.
**There is a big artilce in today's Folio de Sao Paulo newspaper (page A12) about yesterday Israeli actions, but does not tell the sex of the other children. It does have a large photo of the dead girl's (Riyad Owayssi) mother crying. Israeli is recruiting terrorist from all over the world with the current RETALITORY policy, perhaps even from Brazil.
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