Mormons are a CULT!

[WildBlueYonder]

Originally posted by Chromatose


As if!...
It was a private joke, dingleberry.

It is a direct immitation of a student poem cited by the author in the book "Writing Down The Bones".

This is a public forum, O Logical One, not all of us are as well read as you to get those 'private' jokes.
BTW are you the only one that gets those 'private' jokes? do you practice them often, O Funny One,
As to making my name into different concepts, O Poetic One, thou hast no rivals, thine poetry flows with zingers & O those slings and arrows, I am hurt, alas, I bleed, I grow faint, please hold me!!! Ragged breathing, falls to floor, blood pours from many well-placed cuts & deep wounds. He breathes his last....
From out of the shadows, faceless assassins, dressed in Roman togas, come out chanting "Beware the Ides of March!", "Beware!", then they turn to Brutisia Chromatus, who has stepped out of the shadows, they shout to her, "Hail Ceasar!", "Long live Chromatus!".

Narration by Rod Sterling impersonator,
"The protagonist has been mortally wounded, lying on the floor of this small stage, his feeble attempts at discourse & debate, drowned out by the anger of his fellow Sci-enators, another lesson learned, in "The Mormon Zone". TaTaaTatTaTa. Fade to black.

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Re: I WON'T BE RETURNING AGAIN TO THIS FORUM!

Originally posted by Chromatose


[sarcasm=extreme]
Clever child!
[/sarcasm]


Randolphoian inference: That alone qualifies orchards as cattle ranches!



No need to reply since i won't be back to see it.

Shucks, I was hoping that the term "Randolfoian" would be used for great scientific discoveries or some great concept, but alas it is a mormon term for 'illogic', shucks. As consolation though, I'll get a chance to share that name with my Armenian friends, telling them that I'm now Armenian.

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Re: I WON'T BE RETURNING AGAIN TO THIS FORUM!

Originally posted by Chromatose

No need to reply since i won't be back to see it.

You can't leave, don't you know that you are stuck here, in an endless loop, trapped & doomed to repeat yourself, in an endless loop, trapped & doomed to repeat yourself,in an endless loop, trapped & doomed to repeat yourself,in an endless loop, trapped & doomed to repeat yourself,in an endless loop, trapped & doomed to repeat yourself,in an endless loop, trapped & doomed to repeat yourself,in an endless loop, trapped & doomed to repeat yourself,in an endless loop, trapped & doomed to repeat yourself,in an endless loop, trapped & doomed to repeat yourself,in an endless loop, trapped & doomed to repeat yourself,in an endless loop, trapped & doomed to repeat yourself,in an endless loop, trapped & doomed to repeat yourself, etc., etc.

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Originally posted by Chromatose


Use "masturbation" for "Randolpho".

I had just been thinking that what you do here is pretty much mental masturbation.

I'll send you a picture of me, so that next time you feel the urge, you know, you won't be alone. I never thought I'd end up as a centerfold! Chromatose, you touch me in so many special ways, I hope you're a female, you are a female aren't you? Are you saying publicly that you love me, that you're always thinking of me, at least 'mentally', if you know what I mean?
Silly, girl, just email me!!!

 

[Lamplighter]

Did I actually compliment this person on his "positive" approach??? Gee, what was I thinking? I've never seen a ruder, cruder dude in all my life. I take back any positive comments I made about him. I'm sure he'll attack this post and take it apart with Randolfian sophistry, but who cares? I sure don't. Let R-R-Ra-Ra-Randolfo have the thread to himself so he can insult everyone alive. He's proven what kind of person he is.

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Originally posted by Chromatose

One of you bozos said somewhere that other religions claim similar things...

But what if it worked? Oh crap! Couldn't take that! Yikes! The very thought that you might become the type of person you've criticized so much on all those "intellectual" (term used loosely) grounds could mess up your whole world.

Have to admit that my being a bit of a mess in some ways, and believing strongly in that promise, is enough to spook me.

You can say and quote as many picky negatives, failings, and inconsistencies about the church as you want,

As an amateur historian, to believe the BoM, I would have to completely start from scratch, tearing down all that I've learned about the related subjects of archeology, anthropology, linguistics, and genetics as they pertain to the peopling of the Western Hemisphere to take the BoM as gospel truth. That's for starters, then I would have to stop trying to be "intellectual" (term used loosely), in any way, shape or form, as I understand it. As for promises, I don't normally read books of fiction or Sci Fi, with the intent of praying that God will show me that they are true or gospel or a new testament. Do you read that way for all things, or just the BoM?
BTW, do you like my red hair? It's kind of trendy sticking out at the sides like that, don't you think?

but i've personally seen it turn the lives of many many folks who were a complete disaster in one way or another into the most extraordinarily exceptional people i've met. Often a 180 degree change in a matter of a couple years. Actually, many of the people whom i've admired most, i've later learned are LDS.

Hate to say this, but one of the Nation of Islam’s claim to fame, is turning around hardened convicts & drug users to the straight & narrow. Your point is?

LDS church also sends millions of $s a year in relief to sites of natural disasters around the world without regard to whether the involved countries are allies or have the right politics.

Meanwhile televangelists spend their extra money to buy bigger business jets and homes and vacations. So if it isn't true, even then, i say the positive effects on communities and individuals makes the organization worth having around.

Good for the LDS, bad for the TeleVangels.

I read some more comments around here about the Book of Mormon being a work of fiction. Has no one read "The Book of Mormon-Artifact or Artifice" by Orson Scott Card? Geez, it's one little chapter in his book "A Storyteller in Zion"!

He gives very straight-forward, carefully researched, well thought out reasons from an author's point of view, why neither Joseph Smith nor anyone else in his time and place could have written the book! It's the best treatment of that issue that i've read.



Well. So long. Again, i make my exit from this forum for an indefinite period of time.

Actually, I like Orson Scott Card as a Sci Fi writer, & "yes" I'll take you up on the offer, next time I'm at the library, I'll check it out. But I'd like to give you a little homework too, if you would, could you re-read the BoM with notebook in hand, and write down the major points, concepts, or things that stand out. Then after you're finished, review your notes, to see if what you just read is your understanding of what the BoM means, now the research begins, find out if any of those events happened? Etc., etc.
Egyptians in the Western Hemisphere? Why the implications would be enormous, no scientist or historian could hold that 'secret' back, they would have to publish the story of their careers!! Think about it, all of world history would have to be re-written; exiled Jews in the Western Hemisphere? why Israelis would be on that like 'white on rice', maybe even claim the US as part of modern Israel? Hmmm, we're in trouble now! The Field Museum http://www.fmnh.org/ & the Oriental Institute http://www-oi.uchicago.edu/OI/OI_TOC.html , wouldn't have to send teams to Egypt, why they could just dig right next door in East Saint Louis(Cahokia, see http://www.swi-news.com/SWI-Cahokia.htm) & Wisconsin (Aztalan, see http://www.library.wisc.edu/etext/WIReader/Galleries/First.html). No need to go to exotic places like Egypt anymore.

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Originally posted by Lamplighter
Did I actually compliment this person on his "positive" approach??? Gee, what was I thinking? I've never seen a ruder, cruder dude in all my life. I take back any positive comments I made about him. I'm sure he'll attack this post and take it apart with Randolfian sophistry, but who cares? I sure don't. Let R-R-Ra-Ra-Randolfo have the thread to himself so he can insult everyone alive. He's proven what kind of person he is.

Lamplighter, did you actually read Chromatose's post? If you consider her post positive, well then, I guess both of us will never see eye to eye? Did you read it?

 

[Lamplighter]

Not only did I read (and agree with) Chromatose's posts, but I've also read this entire thread. In this thread, you have taken a book I hold to be sacred and called it "fantasy," "science fiction," and a "lie." You have denigrated my entire religion, which I also hold sacred, and called it a "cult" and "false." You have taken every opportunity to try to break down my religion and cast negative aspersions on it, even when your own cites contradict what you are saying.

You, sir, are a religious bigot, and I will have nothing more to do with you or your misguided, ill-informed, illogical, rude comments. Learn some frigging manners and get back to me when you figure out why you come across as an offensive jerk to those whose religion you are attacking.

 

[Zero]

Who cares if a religion/cult is right or wrong? How do you judge something like that, anyway? And while we're at it, what is right or wrong anyway?

Calling someone's beliefs a fantasy or science fiction is decidedly retarded to me. Just who would decided that your viewpoint is The Ultimate Undeniable Truth and someone else's is "false"?

Haven't read all of this yet, but if someone actually has thought that his/her belief is superior to mormon then I'd tell that person to lay off the crack.

__________________________________________
There is no god, afterlife or divine love. There is only Entropy, the mother from which we were all born. She tugs our souls with the beautiful, maternal love of chaos. Why do you keep Her waiting?

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Originally posted by Lamplighter
Not only did I read (and agree with) Chromatose's posts,

You, sir, are a religious bigot, and I will have nothing more to do with you or your misguided, ill-informed, illogical, rude comments. Learn some frigging manners and get back to me when you figure out why you come across as an offensive jerk to those whose religion you are attacking.

Bigot? Only because I won't agree with you and yours? I think the BoM is bigoted; any book that would take the civilizations founded by Native Peoples (savage Indians to many people in J. Smith's time) away from them and gives it to "foreign civilized Israelites", is bigoted. Smith had no sense of science, history or linguistics. His BoM is a sham, no serious scientist or historian would endorse it.

Any claim by mormons that the BoM is true would have to pass at least these minimum points:
1) BoM sites found & excavated in the Americas
2) BoM artifacts deciphered & found to be "Israelite"
3) pre-columbian metal, glass & agricultural produces found on those sites
4) linguistic or oral traditions should mark one or more Native Peoples as "Israelite", such as the Lemba have in Africa: http://www.bioethics.umn.edu/genetics_and_identity/case.html#lemba
5) genetic markers of some Native peoples should correspond to Jewish halo types
6) publication of those findings in any major university, geographic society or museum journal

If it could pass these simple things that the Bible has, in Middle East archeology, then we could see if people like me would be willing to take Moroni's promise seriously, but to me "False" history equals "FALSE" religion.

Show me the money! (so to speak, since, if I remember right, there were supposed to be coins too!). I'm waiting!!!

 

[pumpkinsaren'torange]

Chromatose said he/she wasn't coming back...

Re: I WON'T BE RETURNING AGAIN TO THIS FORUM!

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Chromatose

No need to reply since i won't be back to see it.

i thought you said you wouldn't be back.

say what you mean, and, mean what you say.

 

[pumpkinsaren'torange]

Your "alligator" remark is completely meaningless to me - I figure it must have something to do with some TV show or maybe the music the kids these days listen to - I have no idea (I don't watch TV and I don't listen to the radio, so any comments relating to either will probably be lost on me - sorry).

**** lol, the alligator remark went right over your head. it had nothing to do with tv or radio programs. it was a rather lame attempt on my part at being poetically witty...
and, whoa...you mean you don't even watch CNN ???

And the remark about all witches wearing black is also strange.

yeah, and you found that strange how? even white-wearing witches wear black inside. think about it. cryptic, maybe..but, true. paint it black.

Are you trying to say that I am stereotyping Christians?

no. hmmm, though... are your trying to say i'm trying to say you are???

actually, you aren't "trying"...you are "doing".

I am truly baffled at what your message to me might be here. I have no "passion for the Christian religion", nor have I ever pretended to - I am Pagan.

then, what the heck are you doing in this thread, other than instigating, as i said before.

I enjoy debating religion - pretty much like everyone else who posts in this forum. I am neither for nor against the Mormon Church at this point, and from the one article that I got to read so far that Randolfo posted a link to and which I reprinted a portion of, they seem about as dangerous as the Amish (for the irony impaired, that means they don't seem particularly dangerous to me).

*** ooohhh, the irony of it all!!

They certainly don't have the record for violence and bloodshed that the rest of Christianity has, nor are they trying to force their religion on me as Fundamentalist Christians do, so I really don't see any real reason to pick on them.

*** i am not picking on them, leave it to you to come up with that premise...
however, yes, i do have a bone to pick with them, but, that's only because they have distorted and manipulated the truth about the gospels and Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit (not to mention Mother Mary...man, how they have taken her and raked her over the coals) and are presenting that junk to innocent people that don't know any better. their religion is false. bottom line. it doesn't line up with what the bible says; and they know it, so they had to write/concoct some of their own books that allow for the oh-so-misguided representations of christianity brought upon by Joseph Smith. the man was delusional.

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Originally posted by Zero
Who cares if a religion/cult is right or wrong? How do you judge something like that, anyway? And while we're at it, what is right or wrong anyway?

Calling someone's beliefs a fantasy or science fiction is decidedly retarded to me. Just who would decided that your viewpoint is The Ultimate Undeniable Truth and someone else's is "false"?

Haven't read all of this yet, but if someone actually has thought that his/her belief is superior to mormon then I'd tell that person to lay off the crack.

__________________________________________
There is no god, afterlife or divine love. There is only Entropy, the mother from which we were all born. She tugs our souls with the beautiful, maternal love of chaos. Why do you keep Her waiting?

So Zero, have you read the Book of Mormon? Do you know anything about the peopling of the Western Hemisphere? If those two things correspond to you as they do to mormons, then you haven't read it, have you?

I base my points on three things:
1) the BoM as a historical document (as it claims to be a history of exiled Jews in the Western Hemisphere & the testimony of Jesus to them) &
2) the history of my people (Mexicans, and other Native Peoples) here in the Western Hemisphere as historical fact (as documented by archeology, anthropology, linguistics, genetics & history).
3) the Bible (as an accurate account of salvation)

Now Zero, we can at least test two things here:
1) the veracity of the BoM as history &
2) the contrary evidence provided by science as to that veracity

Remember, the BoM is only recently published (in 1830), so its origins are easier to trace than the Bible or other religious or historical data from several thousand years ago. There are copies of the First Editions in several locations, also links, such as:
http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/basic/bom/manuscripts_eom.htm

My simple test was to read the BoM with notebook in hand, and write down the major points, concepts, or things that stand out. Then after you're finished, review your notes, to see if what you just read is your understanding of what the BoM means, now the research begins, find out if any of those events happened or what evidence there is to prove them? Remember who these Nephites, Lamanites, and Jaredites are supposed to be, seems they are Israelites in the Western Hemisphere? Why the implications of this would be enormous, no scientist or historian could hold that 'secret' back, they would have to publish the story of their careers!! Especially if they are mormon!!!! Think about it, all of world history would have to be re-written, exiled Jews in the Western Hemisphere? Could it be? Where's the proof?

If you read the BoM, tell yourself, who & what is that story about, then is it real? Or fantasy, sci fi or fiction? Be honest with yourself, judge it as you would all other aspects of your life or beliefs or what you read; does it stand up to reason? Could it be true?

Email or visit museums, colleges, antiquities departments, ask them where the Lamanite sites are located, & if you can see their extensive Lamanite exhibits? Ask BYU or FARMS to send you literature, tell them you want to sign up for the next season digs at these same sites. Have fun at those archeology digs, remember archeologists “Get Dirty!”

 

[Zero]

What makes your argument any different from the standard "all religions are fantasy" kick? I could substitute your references to Mormon to the word "religion" and change BoM accordingly and it would not make a difference. What evidence is there that makes Christianity or Islam or Hindu "true", any truer than Mormon? What makes them so superior to Mormon? Heck, what makes YOU superior to mormons?

So what if I'm atheist? I still see no difference.

__________________________________________
There is no god, afterlife or divine love. There is only Entropy, the mother from which we were all born. She tugs our souls with the beautiful, maternal love of chaos. Why do you keep Her waiting?

 

[Zero]

Re: Re: I WON'T BE RETURNING AGAIN TO THIS FORUM!

Originally posted by Randolfo
You can't leave, don't you know that you are stuck here, in an endless loop, trapped & doomed to repeat yourself, in an endless loop, trapped & doomed to repeat yourself,in an endless loop, trapped & doomed to repeat yourself,in an endless loop, trapped & doomed to repeat yourself,in an endless loop, trapped & doomed to repeat yourself,in an endless loop, trapped & doomed to repeat yourself,in an endless loop, trapped & doomed to repeat yourself,in an endless loop, trapped & doomed to repeat yourself,in an endless loop, trapped & doomed to repeat yourself,in an endless loop, trapped & doomed to repeat yourself,in an endless loop, trapped & doomed to repeat yourself,in an endless loop, trapped & doomed to repeat yourself, etc., etc.

And what exactly do you mean by this, except blatant insult to the recipient of this post?

Unless you can learn the rudiments of courtesy, there can be no intelligent discussion here. There will only be a yelling match.

And while we're at it, I might give you extra tools for you to direct insults at me. I'll have you know I'm Asian, so go ahead and make racial slurs to me and have fun. You're obviously deeprooted in the impression that you're superior to everyone else here.

__________________________________________
There is no god, afterlife or divine love. There is only Entropy, the mother from which we were all born. She tugs our souls with the beautiful, maternal love of chaos. Why do you keep Her waiting?

 

[pumpkinsaren'torange]

earth to Zero:

lay off the crack. it just makes you hyper.


p.s. now take your medicine like a good little boy.

i see you have been accusing everyone that you don't agree with in other posts of being on crack. i guess if you can't come up with any witty rebuttals during your lame attempts at refuting what a person says...there's always the "crack" comment to fall back on, right?

 

[Zero]

Right. The crack comment is a worthwhile tool to use. *hands some crack to pumpkin*

I repeat, what makes his argument ANY DIFFERENT from "all religion = fantasy"? His argument is lame. The very attempt to try and bonepick with a religion and get theists to produce scientific proof is lame by itself.

I am merely pointing that out. *sits back and takes out some crack*

__________________________________________
There is no god, afterlife or divine love. There is only Entropy, the mother from which we were all born. She tugs our souls with the beautiful, maternal love of chaos. Why do you keep Her waiting?

 

[pumpkinsaren'torange]

yeah..but...but.....you are attempting to hijack my thread....that is not what this thread is about. you fiend, you.:bugeye:

 

[pumpkinsaren'torange]

Zero

besides...athiests can't prove jack-squat, either...if you want to get right down to brass tacks, mister.

 

[Davearchy]

I laugh, i really do. I'm with this Chromatose on this. Come back to me and whine after you've actually read the book of Mormon, and instead of taking other people's word for law, go research it for yourselves, and pray, THE FOUR LETTER WORD THAT NONE OF YOU SEEM TO BE DOING. I pray every night that the next day may be more enlightening and those on this forum will actually stop telling us what we believe, and that your mind may be opened and that u'd learned to read what we're saying. I have the distinct feeling all you do is skim through our words and then sift out anything that can be turned around and shoved into our faces.

And going back to what Chromatose said, I have a testimony of the BoM, and the Bible *as far as it has been translated correctly*. You could point a gun to my head, a knife to my heart, or hang a noose around my neck, but i will never deny my religion, i will never deny to truth of the BoM, i will NEVER deny Jesus Christ as being OUR Savior, I will never deny God, and I will never deny the Holy Ghost, all 3 being seperate beings. Though atheists don't believe in a God, hear this: You may not believe in Him, but He believes in you *taken from The Count of Monte Cristo, good words of wisdom, lol*. So, you guys can argue amongst yourselves *just like the counsel that decided to perceive God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost to be one, so long ago* and decide what we believe for yourselves, by i for one am sick of this disgraceful excuse for a discussion. The only thing that brings me back is the hope that one day you guys will listen, so far that hope is deminishing, though my desire to discuss with those openly will never dim.