Mormons are a CULT!

Davearchy, hi, glad to see a friendly "face" in this thread! There's something I need to point out, however: that web site, lds-mormon.com, isn't really a pro-LDS web site. They do what President Packer told us not to: that is, they give equal attention to the "anti" point of view. Sure, they're quoting pro-Mormon stuff, but they also have a lot that is false. Just had to mention that, and I hope you won't be offended that I did. Heaven knows I was getting tired of being one of the only Mormons amidst pumpkins's incredibly persuasive array of smilies and Randolfo's "sophisticated" mockery and bigotry.

Truth be told, I'm on my way out of this thread and have been since page one! They keep dragging me back into the fray, LOL.

But anyway, I do feel I've said all I can, especially about Moroni's Promise, and I'm tired of being attacked by grinning smilies in such abundance as to weary the eyesight! Man, can that pumpkins argue or what? :D:D:D:D

I may drop into this thread once a day or so. More than that and I'll develop smilie-itis. Hope to see you around!
 
hehe, i know that that site is part anti-Mormon, i was actually reading anti-Mormon things to find out what others thought about us. But i thought it okay to quote that because I read it in typed out format given out at my mom's know your religion. Thx for the warning though:)
As I look through this thread again, I think you're right in trying to get out of the thread. The spirit of contention is too high and will get no one anywhere. As we are taught, the only thing that can bring enlightenment on such a subject is the Holy Ghost and the receivers willingness to listen. It seems neither is present here.
 
Yeah, I agree. This whole thread is just one big argument after another. Which is why I'm trying to leave it. It's an argument for argument's sake, and that isn't something I'm really interested in.
 
Well nothing is keeping us here, so I'm already gonna make my exit:) Though as you, i may pop in to see what they come up with next. "No I'm sorry, we don't worship trees"
 
Originally posted by Davearchy
Curiosity killed the cat, and hopefully it won't have the same affect on me, but how many of you guys are LDS? I see about 2 people 'defending' the church and about 10 against it.

Hi Davearchy and welcome! I'm not LDS, but I'm not against it either. I'm mainly defending against the holier-than-thou "Christians" who, for the most part, have been ignoring me. Oh well...I hope you can find a more productive line of discussion elsewhere in this forum - it shouldn't prove too difficult. :)
 
Thanks for the welcoming Nehustha. I'm glad to see that there are some people here that know arguing about something will never convince anyone of anything if they aren't first willing to even consider it as a possibility *about religious things in general*. I'm glad there are people out there that try to stop 'persecution', if you will, against those that did nothing wrong.
Hope I have a long and productive stay on these forums, it looks like this place could be a center of good discussions if we let it be.

On a final note, just to go back to the 'prophets are or aren't infallible' argument, the only way a prophet can be infallible is if he were perfect, so if you believe him to be infallible, you believe him to be perfect, so you can go tell Christ that he isn't the only perfect man to walk the face of this planet *I wouldn't want to be there when this takes place*.
 
I'm mainly defending against the holier-than-thou "Christians" who, for the most part, have been ignoring me.


Nahushta, Nahushta, Nahushta....*shakes head in wonder*


don't you know that the mormons ARE (according to LampLighter) Christians ...and, from what we've seen...are oh-so-much more holier than thou. you heathen, you. (yep, that's what the Mormons think of people that aren't of their faith..just ask him) actually, i am quite surprised (allbeit, pleasantly) that a mormon has actually decided to come down off his pedestal long enough to debate this matter at hand. *claps Lamp on the back in good-spirited fellowship* *and, throws in a couple of smilies for extra measure* :D :D
 
I find it odd, pumpkin, how in church we are specifically taught that we are not better than any one that isn't of our faith, but maybe our actions are a little 'better' in terms of caring about morality. We are told that we're not better than anyone, we just have the full truth which the others lack.

So it would be very kind if you would stop telling us what we believe. When i have encounters at school, where people tell me what i believe, and they base what they say on what a friend said, I just say "Your birthday is September 13th" and of course they reply "No it isn't" so I reply "So and so told me it was, so it must be true, no if's about it" and that is when they get my point and shut up, which I hope you get the point...and ya know, stop telling me what I believe.
 
Dave:

maybe it's the way you guys come across, ya know?? have you ever considered that a possibility ...could be why other's think you think you're better than others. dunno, just a hunch..
 
The way we come across? you mean how we actually care what Christ said about not judging others, and how we actually care about following what he says.

I've been accused of trying to get to heaven by my 'good works'...well when did it become a sin to serve our fellow man? if i'm condemned for this then so is Christ, he did the most for mankind, and I don't think anyone who believes on him will ever accuse him of trying to get to heaven by his good works.

Let's try this, tell me what ways we come across to others that they might think we are better than them. Tell me some things you've seen about some LDS folk that come off odd, and i'll try to answer you. But during this, keep in note, that what one Mormon might do, all the others may not. Meaning no one is perfect and some Mormons have their own problems and misconceptions. An example of this is when my Baptist friend russ brought up wittily "i've noticed a lot of the Mormons that go to this school swear" and all i could tell him was "that is their problem, something they have to work through, it doesn't mean we believe that swearing/taking the Lord's name in vain is okay, it means they have a bad habit." But of course he was so closed minded that he smiled *as you have a habit of doing* and told me that we were going to hell *which i'm glad you haven't told us that yet, cause it is quite...rude*.
 
Tell me some things you've seen about some LDS folk that come off odd, and i'll try to answer you.


ok. fair enough. odd you say?? well...for starters, what's NOT odd about the whole holy underwear fiasco. and, yes...i have read and researched this issue....and, i must say, i find it rather odd.

another odd thing is that you have taken the ideologies of Masonry and incorporated it into your religion....i find that odd. nowhere in the bible does it mention using satanic-like rituals[Masonry] when worshipping Christ.

i truly believe that the mormons are being deceived by you-know-who ;).. and are prone to severe delusions.


i agree with what you said about the fact that it is each individual's problem/responsiblity about the way they come across to other's...but, then again, i guess that just proves that we are, afterall, only human, huh? even you mormons.
 
yeah, i like to think us Mormons are human, too.

Lol, as with the underwear thing, i don't know too much about it since i'm 15 and haven't attented the full part of the temple yet. But i gather it has something to do with always remembering the covenants we make there to Christ *just a thought, not totally sure if that is correct*. With masonry, i'm gathering this is the issue of us supposedly making covenants to revenge the death of Joseph Smith. On this issue i don't believe this is even true. Even though i don't believe it is true, i'll try to look at it from your POV. So if this did take place, they were transgressing and they were wrong for doing so, but i assure you that if this ever happened in the past *i'm sure heck doubtful of that* it isn't happening now.

If that isn't what you are referring to, please be more specific:)
 
And to shed a little light about this racism issue. My dad grew up in a non-LDS family that was racist against blacks. It wasn't until he was baptized into the LDS that he lost his racist point of view when he was assigned to the nursery, and there had been a black child there that would only go to my father for care. We don't preach racism, we preach against it. And to address the part when they were allowed to receive the priesthood in 1978, and some of you said that "well if God is always the same, how come he just happened to change his mind about blacks?", well he didn't change his mind, it was his intent all along to allow the blacks to have the priesthood. I don't say 'blacks' in a racist way, it is the only word that can be used to describe the race of people in this issue.

Every Mormon I know thinks like I do, meaning that we really don't even tell the difference between if your white or black, we like you all the same and try to give service to all. It isn't the church's fault that more blacks don't join, which to me it seems you guys are accusing us of intentionally keeping them out, which we aren't.
 
Originally posted by pumpkinsaren'torange
don't you know that the mormons ARE (according to LampLighter) Christians ...and, from what we've seen...are oh-so-much more holier than thou. you heathen, you. (yep, that's what the Mormons think of people that aren't of their faith..just ask him) actually, i am quite surprised (allbeit, pleasantly) that a mormon has actually decided to come down off his pedestal long enough to debate this matter at hand. *claps Lamp on the back in good-spirited fellowship* *and, throws in a couple of smilies for extra measure* :D :D

I don't mind being called a heathen, but just to let you know, I prefer Pagan. :) By the way, one of my daughters-in-law is Mormon, and has no problem at all with my Paganism, nor has she ever tried to convert me to her religion. Unfortunately I cannot say the same about the fundamentalist Christians in my family.

From what I can tell about Mormonism, it seems to be a fairly wholesome, healthy, family-oriented lifestyle. And if they find that their religion nourishes them spiritually as well, what's wrong with that?

And another point - it could be ignorance on my part, but I am completely unaware of any holocausts that the Mormon Church has been behind, or any Crusades, Inquisitions, Witch Hunts, etc. I am also in the dark about any native cultures they have destroyed, or their involvement in the suppression of scientific knowledge. And when they formed their own Church, I don't think they started killing people who practiced whatever religion(s) they broke off from. But who knows, perhaps I just haven't been enlightened yet?

But until I see a reason to give Mormons a hard time about their religion, I think I will simply choose to live and let live.
 
Originally posted by Nehushta


And another point - it could be ignorance on my part, but I am completely unaware of any holocausts that the Mormon Church has been behind, or any Crusades, Inquisitions, Witch Hunts, etc. I am also in the dark about any native cultures they have destroyed, or their involvement in the suppression of scientific knowledge. And when they formed their own Church, I don't think they started killing people who practiced whatever religion(s) they broke off from. But who knows, perhaps I just haven't been enlightened yet?

But until I see a reason to give Mormons a hard time about their religion, I think I will simply choose to live and let live.
As a matter of fact (to points on mormons being harmless), look up:
"northern utes" http://historytogo.utah.gov/nutes.html (you have to go about 40% down this link, to read about mormons & N. Utes, but the other stuff is interesting too)
"danites", http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_Missouri.shtml
"mormon militia", http://www.mormontrail.net/TRAIL97/ROCKIES/06jul1cm.html
"mountain meadow massacre", http://www.mtn-meadows-assoc.com/Carelton/maj.htm
"mormon battalion" http://www.ptsi.net/user/museum/mormon.html
"lieutenant general joseph smith" http://www.realmormonhistory.com/pictures1.htm
"brigham young" http://www.realmormonhistory.com/
 
My best friend happens to be Mormon, and I can say that she is probably the most down-to-earth and open-minded religious person I have ever met. All she concerns herself with is living a good life, she doesn't have any kind of hidden or racist agenda (in fact, I've noticed she seems more attracted to members of other ethnicities :D)...all in all, I know she is a devout Mormon and yet she defies all of the negative stereotypes that have been outlined this far.
 
Originally posted by Lamplighter
Davearchy, hi, glad to see a friendly "face" in this thread!
Hey!!! I'm friendly too!!! but just because I don't agree with you makes me "unfriendly? I'm so hurt!!!
Oh, yeah, you're not talking to me anymore!!!


and Randolfo's "sophisticated" mockery and bigotry.
"sophisticated"?, I'm not copying whole pages from LDS sources like you, (only links & keywords),

But anyway, I do feel I've said all I can, especially about Moroni's Promise, !
First, explain to everybody what the "Book of Mormon" is about? Who are the major players? What is the "story" about? What happens to all those tribes? What are the other claims?

My point is, that the BoM is a piece of fiction, it may be the "FIRST" true science fiction or science fantasy novel ever written, but it's still fiction!!! None of its claims can stand up to modern archeology, just post any of its claims in a science chat board or ask non-mormon archeology or anthropology teachers if there is any proof of all these peoples mentioned in the BoM? It should be easy, those events are only a couple of thousand years in the past!

Join FARMS!!http://www.farmsresearch.com/
Do it if you dare!!! You'll see, the BoM is fiction!!!
 
Beware of soapboxes ...

Relevance is what determines whether a person considers what you have to say or not.

For example, when I left Mormonism a little over 3 years ago, I found the history of the Church to be grossly misleading. When I mentioned this to my brother (who was almost as devout as I was), he asked for specifics. I told him specifics. He then told me he didn't want to know. That what I had to say about the Church and its history was irrelevant to what he thinks and feels now. That what transpired 150 years ago bears no negative connection to what he knows in his heart to be true. In truth, he didn't <i>want</i> to know anymore. My leaving shook his foundations terribly, because I was always the teacher and advocate, but had become the apostate and pagan.

A gal I was dating back then also wanted to know how I could think in this way about the wonderful Church (and, admittedly, there are good things about it). I told her. She recoiled in horror and we broke up soon after. She wanted to know, but when I told her, she didn't really want to know. I actually said to her that she would have no clue if I was speaking doctrine, fiction, or fact about the Church because the only time she had spent studying the Church was by listening to her friends and family. This was evident by the fact that I would quote to her actual things recorded in Church-approved historical manuals.

I also had a friend whom I was very close to back then. For an entire year through going to movies, talking about lots of crap, and general hanging-out, he never had a clue as to my (dis)beliefs concerning the Church. Then, an episode occurred to where I clued him in on the situation and he immediately withdrew. Perhaps he felt deceived by me. But I had learned from my brother's reaction that it was not relevant, so why divulge it if he didn't ask?

<b>Lamplighter</b> shows some pretty good spunk and studiousness when it comes to defending Mormonism. Apologist links and FARMS quotes abound, which demonstrates his ability to at least think about the issues and try to explain them away.

I once had a roommate who had clued me in to even more historical inaccuracies which the Church sought to cover up and dismiss. He was a history major at Brigham Young University. Graduated top in his class (no joke), got a 172 on the LSAT (top score is 180 I think), had offers from UCLA, Stanford, and Harvard. He went to Harvard. Before he left, he told me that if he found a woman that would enjoy being with him and she happened to be Mormon, he could see himself returning to the Church. He did get married, had a reception in Provo (UT), and I visited with him a bit. He returned to the Church, despite all that we had talked about. He said that there are tons of answers out there [about Mormonism] and it just depends on who you decide to listen to about whether any of it is true or not. But what I thought was that it was all about relevance, especially in one's current situation.

I might be wrong, but I wonder why <b>Randolfo</b> doesn't apply the same amount of discrediting to his own religion as he does with Mormonism. Labeling Mormonism as a cult is just yesteryear's catch-phrase of a much larger endemic.

Most members do not care about the history of the Church. If they can read watered-down versions so much the better. The Church tells its members not to entertain arguments with others, so it's rather refreshing to see those like <b>Lamplighter</b> continuously join in. The fact that he resorts to FARMS and other apologetic sources is also a boon. He searches for the answers. Hopefully, he won't someday search beyond what is relevant.

Thanks!

prag
 
I might be wrong, but I wonder why Randolfo doesn't apply the same amount of discrediting to his own religion as he does


i realize that Randolpho can speak for himself, but, i couldn't resist and, i'm sure he'll forgive me.. ;) :)


but, the reason why is simple: it's because his religion (see earlier posts) is the Truth and the truth cannot be discredited. one can try to discredit it...but, in the end...it will still be the truth.
 
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