Mormon Teachings
- Thread starter Brutus1964
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WildBlueYonder
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ok, so if you believe that, join a christian churchBrutus1964 said:
like;
Nazarene
Foursquare
Assemblies of God
Mennonite Brethren
Church of God in Christ
Lawdog, here is the info I wanted to refer you to:
What is the Latter-day Saint conception of priesthood?
Jesus Christ is the source of all true priesthood authority and power on this earth (Heb. 5–10). Man does not take such priesthood power unto himself; it must be conferred by God through his servants. Priesthood is the power and authority by which The Church of Jesus Christ is organized and directed. Priesthood is the power of God, delegated to men to act in the name of God for the well-being of mankind, obtain revelation, and perform saving ordinances. It is also the right and responsibility to preside within the Church, in a manner consistent with the agency of others and in accord with the attributes of God, namely, persuasion, long-suffering, and gentleness (Doctrine and Covenants 121:41). Priesthood power may be exercised only under the direction of the one holding keys, or the right to authorize its use. Following the ascension of Jesus Christ and the death of his apostles, apostasy occurred in the Christian church and priesthood authority was taken from the earth. However, beginning on May 15, 1829, heavenly messengers conferred priesthood authority on Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery in a series of visitations. This priesthood, along with the sealing power and other keys, have been in turn conferred upon each succeeding prophet and President of the Church who oversees the work of the priesthood. For Latter-day Saints, the priesthood is not a profession. All worthy Latter-day Saint men are eligible to be ordained to various offices in the Aaronic or Melchizedek priesthood. The priesthood achieves its highest function in the family, where the husband or father presides in righteousness and uses his priesthood to bless the lives of his family members. Exaltation and eternal life in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom are achieved through the priesthood ordinance of eternal marriage.
abstracted from Richard G. Ellsworth, Melvin J. Luthy, "Priesthood," in Encyclopedia of Mormonism, ed. Daniel H. Ludlow, 4 vols. (New York: Macmillan, 1992), 3:1133–38.
Jesus Christ is the source of all true priesthood authority and power on this earth (Heb. 5–10). Man does not take such priesthood power unto himself; it must be conferred by God through his servants. Priesthood is the power and authority by which The Church of Jesus Christ is organized and directed. Priesthood is the power of God, delegated to men to act in the name of God for the well-being of mankind, obtain revelation, and perform saving ordinances. It is also the right and responsibility to preside within the Church, in a manner consistent with the agency of others and in accord with the attributes of God, namely, persuasion, long-suffering, and gentleness (Doctrine and Covenants 121:41). Priesthood power may be exercised only under the direction of the one holding keys, or the right to authorize its use. Following the ascension of Jesus Christ and the death of his apostles, apostasy occurred in the Christian church and priesthood authority was taken from the earth. However, beginning on May 15, 1829, heavenly messengers conferred priesthood authority on Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery in a series of visitations. This priesthood, along with the sealing power and other keys, have been in turn conferred upon each succeeding prophet and President of the Church who oversees the work of the priesthood. For Latter-day Saints, the priesthood is not a profession. All worthy Latter-day Saint men are eligible to be ordained to various offices in the Aaronic or Melchizedek priesthood. The priesthood achieves its highest function in the family, where the husband or father presides in righteousness and uses his priesthood to bless the lives of his family members. Exaltation and eternal life in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom are achieved through the priesthood ordinance of eternal marriage.
abstracted from Richard G. Ellsworth, Melvin J. Luthy, "Priesthood," in Encyclopedia of Mormonism, ed. Daniel H. Ludlow, 4 vols. (New York: Macmillan, 1992), 3:1133–38.
WBY, in case you want to know (which I doubt), go here:
Is There One God or Many Gods?
Is There One God or Many Gods?
Therefore, is there one God or many Gods? It all depends upon what you mean when you use the term God. If you mean, "are there various competing or independent Gods?", the answer is no, there is only one God, even our Father in Heaven. If you mean, "are there other beings that can use the name-title God?", then yes, but we must remember that they are subordinate to our Father in Heaven and their power and authority is delegated from him.
Marlin said:
I agree with this.
This sounds right to me for christians, with small differences in language. I do not think that this is the essence of the word priest however.Marlin said:
In the ancient world, The main office of Priesthood is to offer sacrifice in attonement to God/gods. This was especially true of the ancient Hebrew Priests. The whole authority thing is an added instrumental power, no less signifigant, but not essential.
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WildBlueYonder
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yeah? Me thinkesth, that it is only used as a prop, the real doctrines are in the Temple ceremonies, D&C, WoW, etc…Marlin said:
so what core belief is propagated by the LDS from the BoM?
would it be that God is One?
would it be that there is only one God?
would it be that Jesus is the only savior?
could you peruse the BoM & enlighten us as to which major core LDS beliefs are found in the BoM? & then lets us have them by quote & reference?
Thanks, so kindly for your help in this matter.
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WildBlueYonder
Guest
Marlin, Marlin, you are so cynical, I did read it, but you left out the juicy partsMarlin said:
from:
http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/response/qa/savior_besides.htm
& the juicy parts are why I don't believe mormonism, all its "cult" beliefs, just go against the Bible
WBY, what if I were to tell you that you, as a Christian, don't really believe in the Bible, but you just believe in extra-biblical creeds manufactured by fallible men? And that I got this information at a "reliable" anti-Christian web site?
And no, I didn't "leave out the juicy parts." There is a thing called "copyright" which doesn't allow me to quote as much as I would like to, so I refer to the full text by website URLs.
And no, I didn't "leave out the juicy parts." There is a thing called "copyright" which doesn't allow me to quote as much as I would like to, so I refer to the full text by website URLs.
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WildBlueYonder
Guest
I would tell you, what Martin Luther told the RCC, "solo scriptura"!Marlin said:
and I would ask you, how do you know that the LDS doctrines are right? whilst the Christian ones are wrong? how do you judge LDS doctrines? being that several have been overturned; 2 that come to mind are polygamy & Blacks in the priesthood. how did Joe Smith know those were right, yet nary 60 years & one is overturned, then the other about 70 years after. Marlin, how do you know that one of your cherished doctrines won't be changed before tomorrow? I stand on a rock, Jesus, the same yesterday, today, and forever. you, on shifting sand, one day you are told to believe this, then that, then the next thing, tell us, wasn't polygamy first taught as absolutely necessary to attain godhood? so what happens now to all the monogamous mormons after the edict changed in 1890? they lose their 'godhood' & 'planet'?
see:
http://www.polygamyinfo.com/past_media plyg 58 ap.htm
nah, I meant the so-called "meat" of mormonism, like your god granting authority to your Jesus & to your female deity that the LDS call "Holy Ghost"
it sort of goes with granting 'authority' thing, LDS says of its priesthood. LDS belief also implies that Jesus & the Holy Ghost are created or exalted (ascended) beings, a very mormon &/or New Age thing
by "reliable", you mean LDS, right?
you are so funny, as if that would stop you, if it helped you prove a point, monsieur, you are, how you say, funnie? adieu!
I'm not asking you to cut & paste the whole thing, but to selectively stop before the "meat", afraid to show the diff? or afraid to bring LDS 'cult' beliefs into the glare of the spotlight?
Jenyar and others: I found a new article on FAIR's website that you might be interested in. I found after reading it that my views of the Great Apostasy are very limited and overly simplistic. Here's a quote from that article, followed by the link to it:
What we tried to help them understand was that yes, there are some Latter-day Saints who see The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the only vehicle through which God works, but maybe their worldview needs to be slightly broadened.
I also had the chance to do some zone conferences down in the Jackson Mississippi Mission, right in the heart of the Bible belt. I went into the first one and said, "Okay how many of you know people who are not Latter-day Saints who really know Jesus Christ?" Well a lot of hands went up; these are missionaries, okay? I said "How many of you know people who are not Latter-day Saints who really have the Holy Ghost in their life?" A lot of hands went up. I said okay, so what do you have to teach them? What's the 'more' of Mormonism that you need to help convey? Because they were beginning to realize that God does not limit His work only to the Latter-day Saint community and consequently they were having to struggle with the issue of what is it that I have to say to people who already know the Savior.
That was the issue and the problem that Flo Beth and I had to wrestle with as we came into the Church because there were a lot of Latter-day Saints who basically gave us the impression that if we would stop believing what we did, they'd teach us what was right. And that's really offensive to people who know the Lord; or to people who already have had experience with deity under whatever heading or name they may encounter that God.
http://www.fairlds.org/pubs/conf/2004KelR.html
What we tried to help them understand was that yes, there are some Latter-day Saints who see The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the only vehicle through which God works, but maybe their worldview needs to be slightly broadened.
I also had the chance to do some zone conferences down in the Jackson Mississippi Mission, right in the heart of the Bible belt. I went into the first one and said, "Okay how many of you know people who are not Latter-day Saints who really know Jesus Christ?" Well a lot of hands went up; these are missionaries, okay? I said "How many of you know people who are not Latter-day Saints who really have the Holy Ghost in their life?" A lot of hands went up. I said okay, so what do you have to teach them? What's the 'more' of Mormonism that you need to help convey? Because they were beginning to realize that God does not limit His work only to the Latter-day Saint community and consequently they were having to struggle with the issue of what is it that I have to say to people who already know the Savior.
That was the issue and the problem that Flo Beth and I had to wrestle with as we came into the Church because there were a lot of Latter-day Saints who basically gave us the impression that if we would stop believing what we did, they'd teach us what was right. And that's really offensive to people who know the Lord; or to people who already have had experience with deity under whatever heading or name they may encounter that God.
http://www.fairlds.org/pubs/conf/2004KelR.html
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WildBlueYonder
Guest
It is interesting, what an ex-Presbyterian minister would see as connecting points between his old & new faith, from his stand-pointMarlin said:
But I'm not sure if his points would stand in LDS circles, since he is too accommodating & looks on all religions as having some truth, but still as lesser than LDS
I agree that there was at least 5 or 6 apostasies; like the Gnostics, Arianism, Islam, RCC, the LDS & now the "liberal" spongian-view
The Reformation brought more Christians, back to the original, the Bible & therefore closer to God
BoM, BoA, WoW; don't quite fit, so sorry
So, when we deal with apostasy we're not dealing with something where suddenly the lights went out, all spiritual light and life went out of the human family in about 100 A.D. and didn't show back up until somewhere around 1820.
Just what I've been saying all along. The undeniable existence of heresies doesn't prove any total apostasy."Does the Bible contain the fulness of the Gospel? You better believe it does."
I'll quote him on that. But I don't agree with him that LDS can see (and access) some mysteries in it that nobody else can. Christianity is not and has never been a mystery religion, except for the Gnostic heresies. The authority to grant eternal life is held by Christ alone, forever (John 17:2; Col. 2:10; Jude 1:25), and all "ordinances" or sacraments are symbols of Him and shadows of what He did - and a symbol doesn't need authority, only understanding, which once again comes from Jesus (1 John 5:20) - of whom the First apostles and the Spirit are witness to. A shadow depends on a reality, or it is simply an illusion; Christ is the mystery of God (Col. 2:2). (A mystery is the cognitive difference between knowledge and understanding). Scripture says any other authority will be destroyed (1 Cor. 15:24), and any response except love and faith shows no understanding at all (1 Cor 13; Col. 2:2; Phil.1:6; James 3:13).I think it is very presumptious to say then, as he does to Christians outside the LDS church: "we offer more to them ... so that you may come to a fuller understanding of what the Lord has in store for you."
He continues, saying that Jesus knew his church "was going to go down the drain". He says, "Paul knew it in Second Thessalonians, the Savior knew it". But he doesn't allow for Paul's words in 2 Thess. 2:
...from the beginning God chose you [the church] to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth. He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
God saves by the work of the Spirit (who was given by Christ, not the Twelve) and the truth (which was presented in his gospel, which we have in the Bible). He says, as the antidote to the "son of perdition" and false teachings, to hold on to the teachings - not the authority. Can you see that? "whether by word of mouth or by letter". Is the gospel which brings the message of salvation, and allows us to share in the very glory of Christ himself, bestowed by earthly authority, or by heavenly authority? Who gave John the authority to baptize? People, or God?Compare Paul's words of encouragement above, with this:
"So what is apostasy? It is first and foremost loss of authority. Yes, with it certain things go, especially those things that were probably too sacred to be written down--perhaps like temple ceremonies."
The contrast is almost tangible. We are to obey the gospel (2 Thess. 1:8) - passed on by word of mouth or by letter - and the authority by which it was given is God himself, not the men who received it.If there were more people like Roger Keller in the LDS church, that would be great (although it's strange that he should think Allah and Jesus are the same person). But I see that at least one Mormon was aware that this isn't the idea of tolerance their church had given historically:
"Does your understanding of the word apostasy compare with Joseph Smith's testimony of The Great Apostasy by James Talmage and The Truth Restored by Gordon B. Hinckley?"
I think so. I don't know why it wouldn't.
"Seems as though your view is in conflict with most teachings about the apostasy."
I don't think so.
"Is the LDS Church changing on this or is it just a few people...the opinion of a few people?"
No, I just think that we have been through a time where because of our historical setting we have seen ourselves in conflict with others rather than seeing ourselves as co-participants in God's eternal plan. I think there's a growing understanding of our role and place in God's total plan. We have looked only with blinders on and that's why I love teaching world religions because I think it expands views.
Thanks for the link, Marlin. I think it will do considerable good if people take it seriously.I think so. I don't know why it wouldn't.
"Seems as though your view is in conflict with most teachings about the apostasy."
I don't think so.
"Is the LDS Church changing on this or is it just a few people...the opinion of a few people?"
No, I just think that we have been through a time where because of our historical setting we have seen ourselves in conflict with others rather than seeing ourselves as co-participants in God's eternal plan. I think there's a growing understanding of our role and place in God's total plan. We have looked only with blinders on and that's why I love teaching world religions because I think it expands views.
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As for whether there ever was a "mystery" or esoteric teaching in Christianity, please see the following link:
The Doctrinal Exclusion: Lesser Arguments
The Doctrinal Exclusion: Lesser Arguments
An esoteric teaching is any teaching that is held back from general, public circulation, a teaching not available to everyone but reserved for the initiated. In the LDS context this also involves vicarious ordinances for the dead. The question before us is not whether the specific LDS esoteric teaching is the right one, but whether Christianity ever had any kind of an esoteric teaching at all. For if it did, then it is a Christian phenomenon--whether the modern denominations have it or not, and whether the LDS understanding of it is correct or not.