Mormon Teachings

[never]

because everyone loves to think they are right. thanks to the internet, we can now converse together, regardless of distances, and try to convince others that they are wrong.

 

[water]

Randolfo, once again I will refuse to speak with you until you stop calling my church a "cult." That is very offensive to me.

Ahem. If you won't speak to him, how will you know he has stopped calling your church a cult?

Be consistent in your statements. Demand an apology, or declare end of all communication with no reverse.
But don't use emotional blackmail.

 

[piglet1946]

Reply to water about joining my church (don't know how to quote yet):

Think about it water. Why wouldn't I want them to join my church? Everybody wants a friend to go to church with. Besides, we as humans always want our ideas to be accepted by other people. It makes us feel better when they do.

I stand by my statement that I'd still be happy if he or she joined another Christian organization, because I would. The most important thing for me is that they accept Christ.

But of course I would rather they join my church. Wouldn't you, water? If you shared the gospel with someone, wouldn't you rather they join your church? Of course you would. It's human nature, and I'm human, just like everybody else.

 

[Jenyar]

It doesn't matter who baptizes you as long as they possess priesthood authority to do so.

Please substantiate this from the Bible - especially taking into account Paul's teaching on the subject, as okinrus pointed out.

This is false doctrine. Priesthood authority is necessary for baptism to be recognized by God; you haven't proved otherwise by any scriptural reference; you've only stated your own unfounded doctrine.

As per Joseph Smith. Your doctrine was nowhere to be found before he came on the scene, which it would have been if he "restored" it. God recognizes only faith, and that doesn't depend on anyone's authority but Christ's. Here's a question that's been asked before: by whose authority did John baptize people?

I'll address your alleged scriptural evidence of apostasy one at a time:

Isaiah 24:5 Changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant
Which Christ restored. People broke the covenant; God restored it. Verse 16: "From the ends of the earth we hear singing: 'Glory to the Righteous One.' "

Isaiah 60:2 Darkness shall cover the earth
but the LORD rises upon you
and his glory appears over you.
Nations will come to your light,
and kings to the brightness of your dawn.

Once again, Christ is the answer to this darkness:

John 3:19
This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.​

See also Luke 1:78-80.

Matthew 13:25 His enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat

(v.37-39) "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.​

The presence of the weeds (or tares) does not affect the amount of good seed that was sown.

Matthew 24:5 Saying, I am Christ, and shall deceive many
25See, I have told you ahead of time.
26"So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it.

Which explains my reluctance to believe the gospel of Joseph Smith, and i'm sure I'm not the first Christian to resist it because of Christ's warning against apostasy.

Matthew 24:24 Shall arise false Christs, and false prophets
And there is a three page list of false messiah's. All identified and proven to be false. The remnant survived because it did not follow them.

Acts 20:29 After my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock
So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.

I believe they heeded his warning. Remember, for Mormon's claims to be true you need a total ("great") apostasy, not a partial, visible and therefore avoidable one.

Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him
who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

...And this letter to the Galatians has been faithfully preserved till this day. By whom, do you think?

Galatians ends with this:

Gal. 6:14-15: May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation.​

Is baptism a greater sign of God's covenant with his people than circumcision? Yet you say: "It doesn't matter who baptizes you as long as they possess priesthood authority to do so" (which, of course, means "being baptized by a Mormon" and therefore that eternal life and salvation into it - which depends absolutely on baptism according to you - depends on Mormons. This makes your and piglet's asserions about Christians outside the Mormon church sound very empty).

2 Thes. 2:3 That day shall not come, except there shall come a falling away first ...
13-15 But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth. He called you to this through our gospel [as explained in 1 Thess. 5:9-11], that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

2 Tim. 1:15 All they which are in Asia be turned away from me
including Phygelus and Hermogenes.
16 May the Lord show mercy to the household of Onesiphorus, because he often refreshed me and was not ashamed of my chains.

For every Phygelus and Hermogenes in Asia, there was an Onesiphorus in Rome. Still not a "great apostasy", but a localized and very visible one, which Timothy was able to guard against "with the help of the Holy Spirit who lives in us" (v.14).

2 Tim. 4:4 Turn away their ears from the truth...unto fables
Which is preceded by Paul's command: "(v.2) Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction."

Paul wrote to those who would be able to guard against such apostasy, not to those who would become apostate.

2 Pet. 2:1 False prophets also among the people
7...and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)—if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.

3:17-18: "Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."

1 John 2:18 Now are there many antichrists
This is how we know it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

No doubt there were antichrists and false prophets. But these letters weren't written to them, were they?

20-22: But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth. I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son.​

1 John 4:1 Many false prophets are gone out into the world
Therefore "do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God" He goes further, to equip them against believing any such lies: "This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God."

26-27: I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.​

John was certain they were anointed by God (with the Spirit), and therefore able to withstand the lies of false prophets. For what reason do Mormons doubt John, and the Spirit's ability to preserve their faith?

Jude 1:4 Certain men crept in...denying the only Lord God
And once again, their being aware of this means they were withstanding it. He even describes these men.

And neither does Jude share your pessimism about their ability maintain the truth of the gospel:

20-21 But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit. Keep yourselves in God's love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.​

Yet he goes even further, and this may serve as a good summary of everything I've said above (I'll give the KJV lest you should doubt the wording):

Jude 1:24-25
Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.​

Was God able to keep them from falling? Did He retain dominion "then and for ever"? Or did the gates of hell prevail, even for a single day, against the church Jesus created in the hearts of those who followed Him in all their ways?

The Bible makes it clear that the day of Christ will not come until after there is a "falling away" first, an apostasy from the truth. Paul and Peter foresaw it and warned the saints about it (see above references). Even in Paul's day, the saints were already turning away from the truth "unto fables."

No, it wasn't the saints who were falling away. That's in none of the passage you provided. The passages were written in reference to the saints, actually appealing to their steadfastness, and what they say is this:

Jude 1:3-4 Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints. For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you.​

In what way can "once for all" (Gr. Hapax) be interpreted, to make these saints seem unable to preserve the gospel they are renowned by Paul and the apostles for keeping in spite of everything?

And last of all, it seems you and piglet don't dismiss the sufficiency of Christ to atone for our sins. But if it's only sin that keeps us from being at the right hand of God himself, then after Christ's forgiveness, what remains for anyone to do but hold onto Christ for all they're worth? Is Christ sufficient or insufficient?

 

[Jenyar]

Reply to water about joining my church (don't know how to quote yet):

Put the words to be quoted inside "quote" tags: "quote"... "/quote" (replace "" with []).

I stand by my statement that I'd still be happy if he or she joined another Christian organization, because I would. The most important thing for me is that they accept Christ.

But according to Mormon doctrine, this isn't the most important thing. Marlin says for instance, "It doesn't matter who baptizes you as long as they possess priesthood authority to do so" and explains "Mormons believe and teach that the line of Priesthood authority has to be unbroken between the Priesthood bearer and Christ; thus, because the Great Apostasy happened in which Priesthood authority was lost from the earth, it had to be restored to the earth. This restoration happened through the Prophet Joseph Smith..." (my emphasis).

Coupled with this: "If you desire to have eternal life, you need to have the saving ordinances performed for you by someone who has the proper Priesthood authority," it effectively means that nobody outside the Mormon church can be baptized with the proper authority, which is a "saving ordinance", and can therefore not have eternal life. (No matter what Jesus says.)

Be honest: isn't this why you want people to rather join your church?

 

[Marlin]

Jenyar, water, Randolfo, and others: I am tired of arguing and I don't feel like I am making any difference by presenting my arguments to you. Maybe there is someone else here who has more patience than me, but as for myself, I leave you to wrest and misinterpret the scriptures as you wish. Good luck with that.

 

[piglet1946]

My dear Jenyar...

I was being honest. Christ is the most important thing, and I really would rather they joined my church just because I would want them to agree with me.

But since you brought the matter up, yes, I believe in the saving ordinance of baptism by proper priesthood authority. Unlike many Christians, I personally don't believe someone is damned just because they missed out on something as simple as an ordinance. It doesn't make sense, I mean honestly, do you really think that Jesus would deny someone who followed Him their whole life and walked in His footsteps salvation merely because they missed baptism by proper authority? Especially when He's the one who revealed the ordinance and who ultimately holds the authority anyway? I don't, and Mormons don't either -- after death, the saving ordinance can be performed for them just as it could in life via proxy (the process of which is already taking place). They have a choice then whether or not to accept it as a true ordinance, and if they truly have followed Him their whole life, they will know after parting this world by whose authority the baptism is performed. Their salvation WILL be made sure.

Don't try and draw me into a debate about this. You have already proven you know much more scripture than I do, and I'm sure you could get me to twist my words around eventually. I don't enjoy it when people say I'm not Christian when I know I am, and I don't enjoy being told to be honest when I have tried to be.

One more word about ordinances and salvation -- my personal belief on the matter (and this is my personal belief, not any church's doctrine) is that getting to know Christ is the most important thing you can do to ensure salvation. Prayer is the tool I prefer for doing this -- I know about personal revelation and the power it can have. Scriptures come in as a guide and also as an aid to prayer, because ponderance upon the scriptures often leads to prayer and further revelation.

Jenyar, in my opinion, if you are truly following Christ by living your life the best you can and praying to make sure you're on the right path, the rest of it (ordinances, etc.) will all be sorted out in the end. Even though the ordinances are necessary (according to my beliefs, which I am not going to try to convince you of), they will be performed for all those who follow our Savior. This seems to me to be obvious, because Christ is not an "ordinance ogre." He is merciful. He has paid the price for us. If we do all we can do, He will save us as He said.

So, to make a very long story short...

I really would rather my friend came to church with me because it is my church and I like it when people agree with me. The ordinances are important, yes, but I am not naive enough to think that external ordinances are the most important thing that we need to accomplish (Christ himself talked about cleansing the inner vessel first). Even though, according to Mormon doctrine, they ARE requirements to be saved, everyone will have an opportunity to either accept or reject them in their own due time (again, according to Mormon doctrine). I am not one to decide when that happens -- it isn't my place -- and though it would be nice if it happened now, as long as it happens, I don't really worry about when it will.

And even if you rejected all the ordinances, Jenyar, you will not be completely damned as long as you are following your Savior (although that would be a weird thing to happen, considering that if you follow Him you WOULD accept His ordinances). The point is, it just doesn't make sense given His nature. He knows what kind of a person you are. You may not have the highest place in heaven if you refuse His ordinances, but you will still have a place (and that also is Mormon doctrine).

Go ahead and find some quotes to disprove me. Tear the scriptures into shreds before my eyes and try and get me to see your correlations between this statement and that one. Ultimately, contention is not of God, and I will not fight with you. I know I am trying to do what is right, and Jesus knows my heart. He will sort out all of these nitpicky differences between us in the end, and the fact that they are there doesn't particularly bother me because I know that all will be set right.

P.S. Thanks for the quote tip. I'm going to try and quote something now to see if it works

quoting words...

K...seemed to work on preview...now how do I get it to do the "Originally posted by [insert member here]" thing? Do I do all the bolding and italics myself or is there a faster way? Thanks in advance for the tips.

 

[Jenyar]

Jenyar, in my opinion, if you are truly following Christ by living your life the best you can and praying to make sure you're on the right path, the rest of it (ordinances, etc.) will all be sorted out in the end. Even though the ordinances are necessary (according to my beliefs, which I am not going to try to convince you of), they will be performed for all those who follow our Savior. This seems to me to be obvious, because Christ is not an "ordinance ogre." He is merciful. He has paid the price for us. If we do all we can do, He will save us as He said.

It seems you understand grace, and the part I have bolded is what is called "mediating" - and why we call Christ our High Priest and our mediator. He performed the ordinances that are necessary, and all of them are contained in Him, just as all our sins were contained in his death on the cross. We access these realities through our faith in Him.

The problem is the part "if we do all we can do", which suggests God saved us conditionally. Faith is not something we do, it's something we place in God because He proved his faithfulness and mercy. From that belief flows all our actions.

I have no intention of tearing anything apart, only in explaining this gospel to anyone who challenges it - from whichever church or authority they do so. In the end it comes to this: I am certain of my salvation in Christ, and of attaining the same resurrection He did ("entering the same kingdom", in Mormon terms). Are you?

K...seemed to work on preview...now how do I get it to do the "Originally posted by [insert member here]" thing? Do I do all the bolding and italics myself or is there a faster way? Thanks in advance for the tips.

In the first "quote" tag, add "quote=[insert member name here]"..."/quote". It will show up with a name in the frame.

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Jenyar, water, Randolfo, and others: I am tired of arguing and I don't feel like I am making any difference by presenting my arguments to you.

Marlin, you are such a quitter.
its so unbecoming of a 'god' in training

Maybe there is someone else here who has more patience than me,

there's 11 million mormons, passing the baton to the other 10.99M, are we?

but as for myself, I leave you to wrest and misinterpret the scriptures as you wish. Good luck with that.

mormons are the ones that are good at misinterpreting the Scpitures, they twist it beyond recognition

history? they wrest it to the ground & twist it into some pseudo-jewish fantasy
LDS is losing alot of their thinkers, like Simon Southerton (author of "Losing a Lost Tribe"), because they find out that little fact

btw, I don't consider any LDS book, pamphlet, or idea as 'scripture', it is, for want of a better term, the "Bible of the Left Hand", while holding the Bible in the right hand, cultists are saying that they are "christians", all the while holding to strange non-christian beliefs from their bible of the left

 

[WildBlueYonder]

But since you brought the matter up, yes, I believe in the saving ordinance of baptism by proper priesthood authority.

all christians are called the "priesthood of believers", the only "proper" priesthood is from Jesus, He is our High Priest

Unlike many Christians, I personally don't believe someone is damned just because they missed out on something as simple as an ordinance.

not so simple, Jesus said that many would be saying they were His & He would say, He knew them not

It doesn't make sense, I mean honestly, do you really think that Jesus would deny someone who followed Him their whole life and walked in His footsteps salvation merely because they missed baptism by proper authority?

Jesus meant baptism of the soul, re-read His talk with Nicodemus in John

Especially when He's the one who revealed the ordinance and who ultimately holds the authority anyway? I don't, and Mormons don't either -- after death, the saving ordinance can be performed for them just as it could in life via proxy (the process of which is already taking place). They have a choice then whether or not to accept it as a true ordinance, and if they truly have followed Him their whole life, they will know after parting this world by whose authority the baptism is performed. Their salvation WILL be made sure.

baptism of the dead is only mentioned in passing, there is no proof that Jesus instituted it, also, my guess is that, they meant 'dead', as in not christian, not alive in Christ
remember, both Jesus & others said that we live only once, then we die.
also, no marriages in heaven, its all in the Bible, just read it yourself

oh, & that part about, "as far as its correctly translated", does not apply to the Bible, since any bright student can learn Koina Greek, Hebrew & Aramaic & read it themselves. but the BoM, now thats an other matter, peepstones called Urim & Thurrim, vanishing plates, reformed egyptian, ancient Hebrews in America, I would say that Jo Smith had this, "as far as its correctly translated" problem with the BoM

Don't try and draw me into a debate about this. You have already proven you know much more scripture than I do, and I'm sure you could get me to twist my words around eventually.

debate, the truth speaks for itself

I don't enjoy it when people say I'm not Christian when I know I am, and I don't enjoy being told to be honest when I have tried to be.

if you were a christian, you would follow Christ only, not a cult that can't stand on its own in reality, just study a little American archeology to find out how the BoM can not be a true history or story of the peoples of the early Americas, not even close, you would have to twist truth around, fall on some tidbit & nibble it clean to get just one make-believe'proof'

One more word about ordinances and salvation -- my personal belief on the matter (and this is my personal belief, not any church's doctrine) is that getting to know Christ is the most important thing you can do to ensure salvation.

so follow Him, Jenyar has a better way of saying it than me, look at some of his quotes

Prayer is the tool I prefer for doing this -- I know about personal revelation and the power it can have. Scriptures come in as a guide and also as an aid to prayer, because ponderance upon the scriptures often leads to prayer and further revelation.
This seems to me to be obvious, because Christ is not an "ordinance ogre." He is merciful. He has paid the price for us. If we do all we can do, He will save us as He said.

ok, good

 

[Medicine*Woman]

To: Jenyar, water, Randolfo, and others
*************
M*W: Why do you fear Mormonism so?

 

[Brutus1964]

Just to let you guys know I am back at Sciforums. Hopefully this site will stay up on a consistant basis again. I need to read up on this thread again so I can respond to some of your questions and comments. I have a blog now. You can read it at http://brutus1964.blogspot.com

 

[water]

piglet1946,

Think about it water. Why wouldn't I want them to join my church? Everybody wants a friend to go to church with.

If you want to answer me seriously, then you have to present better justifications than that.
While what you are saying above may be true, it is far form being an acceptable justification.
(What about those who are not your friends?)

Besides, we as humans always want our ideas to be accepted by other people. It makes us feel better when they do.

This is true, but it is also mindlessly selfish and short-sighted.
I (or anybody else) should become a Mormon so that you can feel better about yourself?!
This is emotional blackmail.

I stand by my statement that I'd still be happy if he or she joined another Christian organization, because I would. The most important thing for me is that they accept Christ.

The state this to be your first and ultimate reason. And dont' begin your asnwer with
"Think about it water. Why wouldn't I want them to join my church? Everybody wants a friend to go to church with. Besides, we as humans always want our ideas to be accepted by other people. It makes us feel better when they do."

But of course I would rather they join my church. Wouldn't you, water?

I can't speak for that, as I am not a member of a curch.
I am certain though that I would not want someone to join my group when they don't understand or genuinely share the spirit of it.

If you shared the gospel with someone, wouldn't you rather they join your church? Of course you would.

No.
Being an outsider, such sectarianism is beyond me.

It's human nature, and I'm human, just like everybody else.

Within a religion, the otherwise sectarian human nature (the sinful human nature which prefers division) is to be overcome.
You are not supporting this, in fact, you promulgate just the opposite.




* * *

Jenyar,

This is false doctrine. Priesthood authority is necessary for baptism to be recognized by God; you haven't proved otherwise by any scriptural reference; you've only stated your own unfounded doctrine.

As per Joseph Smith. Your doctrine was nowhere to be found before he came on the scene, which it would have been if he "restored" it. God recognizes only faith, and that doesn't depend on anyone's authority but Christ's. Here's a question that's been asked before: by whose authority did John baptize people?

The baptism is between God and the person.
The priests are, in this regard, necessary only as earthly authority so that other people may see and recognize the newly baptized to be one of them.

According to the Catholic church, there is also baptism by blood (ie. when a person, who has not been baptized by a priest, dies being prosecuted for his faith in Christ) and baptism by desire (ie. when there is noone to perform the necessary ordinances) -- no other people are necessary.
I agree with this.

Baptism is a matter of what is in the person's heart -- and only God can see this.
If one doesn't have the right intention in his heart, it does not matter what authority performs the baptism on such a person, for such a baptism cannot count before God, just like no sin is tolerated by God.

To say Priesthood authority is necessary for baptism to be recognized by God is to say God needs people to help Him recognize what is in their hearts.


* * *



Marlin,

Jenyar, water, Randolfo, and others: I am tired of arguing and I don't feel like I am making any difference by presenting my arguments to you.

What difference were you hoping to make?
That we would become Mormons?

Maybe there is someone else here who has more patience than me, but as for myself, I leave you to wrest and misinterpret the scriptures as you wish.

You are perverting the Gospel, and you are relativizing God's power.

Good luck with that.

Do you believe in God at all?!
You wish a person *luck*?




* * *


Medicine Woman,

To: Jenyar, water, Randolfo, and others
*************
M*W: Why do you fear Mormonism so?

What makes you think we fear it?

 

[WildBlueYonder]

To: Jenyar, water, Randolfo, and others
*************
M*W: Why do you fear Mormonism so?

fear? As FDR said it, "we have nothing to fear, but fear itself", I do not fear mormonism, it is a false doctrine, just like most of your own anti-Christian beliefs Mademoiselle ABC(Anything But Christianity). So, that you would even dain defense of mormonism, is a blow to that system, since almost everything you say, is probably false. Jesus said to fear only that that would kill your soul, not just your body.

Mormonism sends its adherents to hell, because there is no saving grace in false beliefs. Just ask Jesus.

M. ABC, tell us, is Jesus the spirit brother of satan?
Was god once a good mormon man on some other planet?
Can men become gods, females their spirit-bearing (pre-birth children) goddess consorts?
Are today’s Native Americans the remnants of old post-exilic Jewish civilizations?
These & other false beliefs are the core of mormon belief, are they yours Medicine Woman?

 

[Jadon]

Water,

We are not discussing Religion, we are discussing Christianity. Why is it important? Because it is the only way we can remove the lies of the Devil that have crept in and altered The Truth as The First Century Christians understood it.

Most Christian Denominations today are no different from the Pagans that live beside us. Alot of Churches have doctrines that are no different from those of the hindus, bhuddists and other animalistic tribes.

This is part of the reason why many are moving away from the Belief in The Creator. - Exactly what the Devil wants.!!

 

[superluminal]

Woo Hoo! I'm winning! (I am THE Devil, but you may call me Beelzebub, bub).

"I said to him, 'What are your activities?' He replied, 'I bring destruction by means of tyrants; I cause the demons to be worshiped alongside men; and I arouse desire in holy men and select priests. I bring about jealousies and murders in a country, and I instigate wars." - TSol 6:1-4

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Because it is the only way we can remove the lies of the Devil that have crept in and altered The Truth as The First Century Christians understood it.

remove what lies?
who is the authority here that you are implying?
what Truth?
which 1st Century Christians; the Ebonites, the Judaizers, the Gentile Church, or the ones that Jesus addresses in Revelations?

Most Christian Denominations today are no different from the Pagans that live beside us. Alot of Churches have doctrines that are no different from those of the hindus, bhuddists and other animalistic tribes.

I agree if you are talking about the RCC, of which I used to be a member

I also agree if you are talking about the LDS, of which you might be a member, right?

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Woo Hoo! I'm winning!

eh, you can believe that all you want, silly boy

(I am THE Devil, but you may call me Beelzebub, bub).

who are you, where have you been hiding, with over 1800 posts?

who were you in your last 'nome de net'? did Sciforums allow you to change your name?

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Just to let you guys know I am back at Sciforums.

welcome back,

so whats this? did Marlin call for reinforcements, what with you back, piglet1946, & Jadon?

 

[superluminal]

Randolfo:

who were you in your last 'nome de net'? did Sciforums allow you to change your name?

I am the great deceiver, am I not? Who do you think I am, silly boy?