Mormon Teachings
- Thread starter Brutus1964
- Start date
Thanks Piglet1946. I hold on to the belief that it's Christ, and Christ alone, who saves - "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved" (Acts 4:12) - and that the way Christ and the apostles describe this salvation is sufficient for anyone to understand and experience His atonement fully.
If anything more needed to be done, Christ would have done it, because He came to "fill up" what our deeds - and therefore religious law ("perfect deeds") - could not hope to achieve. Because of this, we only have to persevere in faith (holding on to Christ), to "be mature and complete, not lacking anything" (James 1:4). There is nothing to be found in any church, religion, or righteous act, that cannot be found in Christ himself.
If anything more needed to be done, Christ would have done it, because He came to "fill up" what our deeds - and therefore religious law ("perfect deeds") - could not hope to achieve. Because of this, we only have to persevere in faith (holding on to Christ), to "be mature and complete, not lacking anything" (James 1:4). There is nothing to be found in any church, religion, or righteous act, that cannot be found in Christ himself.
Why Should I Convert?
Only Latter-day Saints have Priesthood authority, or the authority to act in God's name and perform His saving ordinances (such as baptism and marriage for time and eternity). This, among other things, is why we try to convert others, because the ordinances necessary for exaltation are found only in our church.
Only Latter-day Saints have Priesthood authority, or the authority to act in God's name and perform His saving ordinances (such as baptism and marriage for time and eternity). This, among other things, is why we try to convert others, because the ordinances necessary for exaltation are found only in our church.
Marlin said:
You first have to explain to a person why they should be after what you offer.
It is far from obvious, you know.
Why should I believe you? The Moroni promise test doesn't work.
How am I to know that you indeed have such authority?
And I'm asking again, for I don't know which time:
Eternal marriage. If a man marries a widow, whom will he be married to in heaven? What if a widower re-marries?
And what makes any couple sure that they will BOTH make it to heaven?
water said:
If you desire to have eternal life, you need to have the saving ordinances performed for you by someone who has the proper Priesthood authority.
Yes, it does work. Perhaps you just haven't recognized God's answer to you as such.
Ask God in pure faith (see James 1:5, 6) and He will answer you.
A man may have more than one woman sealed to him through eternity; however, a woman may only have one eternal husband. And I suppose that if you don't both make it to heaven, another person will be made available to you (speculation).
That's the problem, isn't it? That one can talk of salvation as if it's already been achieved, and then actually grade it - as if there could logically be an "ultimate degree of salvation". If someone is saved from a burning house, under what circumstances can he be said to be partially saved?
Not even Jesus presumed to assign places for his most beloved disciples in heaven, and yet Mormon priests wish to do it - in Jesus' name no less! Yet Jesus did not even attempt to promise anyone a place in any one of God's rooms. His achievement and assurance was in gaining us entry ito God's house, and once there, God would assign our places as He saw fit, by nothing we can do.
And any least of those who obey Christ's command to love his brothers, and stakes his hope for God's highest rewards on God's grace and Christ alone, is greater than the highest priesthood authority of any religion on earth, and blessed by God himself. Because the only "[r]eligion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world."
Gal. 3:14-16
He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.
Brothers, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ.
The promises that were fulfilled [read: filfilled] in Christ, applied only to Christ: the eternal [read: eternal] priesthood and mediatorship of Melchizedek, applied to Christ (re: Hebrews 7) and only to Christ. No priest, prophet, or authority is above him, and none below him are sufficient (or can add or subtract from his sufficiency). Thus we are baptised "into the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit", and by this name alone do we escape the inevitable mark of false prophets and messiahs.He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.
Brothers, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ.
Not even Jesus presumed to assign places for his most beloved disciples in heaven, and yet Mormon priests wish to do it - in Jesus' name no less! Yet Jesus did not even attempt to promise anyone a place in any one of God's rooms. His achievement and assurance was in gaining us entry ito God's house, and once there, God would assign our places as He saw fit, by nothing we can do.
Matt. 20:23-28
Jesus said to them, "You will indeed drink from my cup, but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared by my Father."
When the ten heard about this, they were indignant with the two brothers. Jesus called them together and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be your slave — just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."
If you let any "high official" lord his authority over you, promising rewards that Jesus himself would not assume to give (and this is the same Jesus who could assure the unbaptised thief on the cross, "today you will be with me in paradise"), you are on dangerous ground no matter which church you are in.Jesus said to them, "You will indeed drink from my cup, but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared by my Father."
When the ten heard about this, they were indignant with the two brothers. Jesus called them together and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be your slave — just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."
And any least of those who obey Christ's command to love his brothers, and stakes his hope for God's highest rewards on God's grace and Christ alone, is greater than the highest priesthood authority of any religion on earth, and blessed by God himself. Because the only "[r]eligion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world."
Marlin said:
You still haven't explained to me why I would desire such a thing.
Riiiiiiight. Blame me.
What is pure faith?
What???
Women have to be held stupid and subdued, right.
They should bear children, cook and clean, and go to church.
Kirche, Kinder, Küche. KKK.
Oh. Speculation? Speculation.
Marlin said:
Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"
"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."
"Which ones?" the man inquired.
Jesus replied, " 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,' and 'love your neighbor as yourself.'"
"All these I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack?"
Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." (Matt. 19:16-21)
I assure you, this man had no special ordinances performed on him, and Jesus required none but that he obey God's commandments and follow him, who is the only proper Priesthood authority."Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."
"Which ones?" the man inquired.
Jesus replied, " 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,' and 'love your neighbor as yourself.'"
"All these I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack?"
Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." (Matt. 19:16-21)
Those who heard this asked, "Who then can be saved?"
Jesus replied, "What is impossible with men is possible with God."
Peter said to him, "We have left all we had to follow you!"
"I tell you the truth," Jesus said to them, "no one who has left home or wife or brothers or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God will fail to receive many times as much in this age and, in the age to come, eternal life."
Jesus replied, "What is impossible with men is possible with God."
Peter said to him, "We have left all we had to follow you!"
"I tell you the truth," Jesus said to them, "no one who has left home or wife or brothers or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God will fail to receive many times as much in this age and, in the age to come, eternal life."
Jenyar, Priesthood authority is necessary for baptism to be efficacious, and Jesus made it clear that baptism is an essential ordinance for salvation:
Baptism is required for salvation:
Mormons believe and teach that the line of Priesthood authority has to be unbroken between the Priesthood bearer and Christ; thus, because the Great Apostasy happened in which Priesthood authority was lost from the earth, it had to be restored to the earth. This restoration happened through the Prophet Joseph Smith, who received the Melchizedek Priesthood directly from Peter, James, and John, who received it from Christ Himself. This is our teaching and our understanding.
John 3:3-5
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Baptism is required for salvation:
Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Mormons believe and teach that the line of Priesthood authority has to be unbroken between the Priesthood bearer and Christ; thus, because the Great Apostasy happened in which Priesthood authority was lost from the earth, it had to be restored to the earth. This restoration happened through the Prophet Joseph Smith, who received the Melchizedek Priesthood directly from Peter, James, and John, who received it from Christ Himself. This is our teaching and our understanding.
A person can be baptized into Jesus' name by anyone who has himself been baptised, and it's not just the Mormon church who performs this sacrament. That's why Christianity survives, despite this Apostasy, which you said you didn't know much about (and that Mormon authorities themselves can only speculate about). The thief on the cross was promised salvation without being baptised, so it's evident that it's still God who saves - not the baptism, or the one administering it.Marlin said:
You have yet to show me where Peter, James and John received any priesthood authority - let alone an authority only Christ qualifies for - remember? Simply saying they did does not mean they in fact did.
That aside, if Peter, Paul, Timothy or any of their flock could lose an authority that came simply by virtue of it being given, how are you so certain Joseph Smith or Mormons haven't lost it themselves? Do you assume that the apostles and their disciples all died without having passed on this incredible authority - something so extremely important that the whole fate of the world and the salvation Christ attained depended on its unbroken continuation?
Melchizedek is only mentioned twice in the Bible, once in the Hebrew scriptures, and once in Hebrews. The Hebrews never practiced or carried on this priesthood, and barely mentioned it. Do you think it was unbroken between Melchizedek and Christ as well?
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Jenyar said:
This is false doctrine. Priesthood authority is necessary for baptism to be recognized by God; you haven't proved otherwise by any scriptural reference; you've only stated your own unfounded doctrine.
Jesus told the thief on the cross that he would be in the world of spirits ("paradise") and implied that he would have the opportunity to learn the gospel there and accept it; He didn't say the thief was saved without obedience, or that deathbed repentance is to be desired; he merely said that the thief would be in the spirit world that day with Christ.
The testimony of Joseph Smith is where I get this idea. Either you believe it or you don't.
Joseph Smith et al did have the authority; this is my faith and my testimony to the world. The Great Apostasy did happen; this is also my testimony. God told me in my heart that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God, and that the gospel he restored is true.
I don't know, quite frankly. I would have to do some research to answer that question.
Didn't The Messiah himself say that after him there would be no other? Hi's words and the words of his Disciples and Apostle Paul are clear. Until the Second Coming, there shall be no other Prophet. To state that there are other prophets after Christ is Blasphemy!!!
Dont you get it? this was the sole reason why The Creator gave the helper or the HOLY SPIRIT. So that from the time of the Ascension to the Second Coming man must live on Faith and the Power of the Holy Spirit.
Why do you cling on to the words of man when you have the Words of the Son of GOD? Your belief has defeated the very purpose of The Christ!!!
Dont you get it? this was the sole reason why The Creator gave the helper or the HOLY SPIRIT. So that from the time of the Ascension to the Second Coming man must live on Faith and the Power of the Holy Spirit.
Why do you cling on to the words of man when you have the Words of the Son of GOD? Your belief has defeated the very purpose of The Christ!!!
Jadon, Revelation is rather clear there will be at least two other prophets and Paul speaks of other prophets in the Christian community. I think it's clear, too, that there will be some prophets who will make predictions but no drastically different revelation will be given to Christians.
Marlin, Paul said that it doesn't really matter who baptizes. He was trying to qualm disputes as to whether it mattered whether he baptized someone or someone else. His writing therefore shows that priests don't necessarily have to do the baptism.
OK, if you're to make claims to a great apostacy, you're going to have to show when this occurred and why. Basically, where is the evidence? The Romans persecuted Christians who believed in one God. Why would people who believed in mormon beliefs be forced into believing the Trinity?
W
WildBlueYonder
Guest
eh? that’s awful presumptuous, authority from who? Joe Smith the money-digger? thou must be kidding, art thou not? the LDS only has authority over those that it ensnares, it’s a cult, it has no God-given authority, only man-givenMarlin said:
you mean the copy-cat secret Masonic rites? the ones Joe Smith installed, soon after being initiated into the Masons, check Fawn Brodie's, "No man knows my history", it’s a mighty tome, about 10 pounds worth of info
read it if you dare!
"exaltation", I hate to burst your bubble, but you ain't going to be a ‘god’, on this planet or any other, see God says there are none like Him, no others. Read the Bible, God is very blunt about it
also, didn't Joe Smith fall for the first lie told by satan?
from Genesis 3:4-5,
*5 ... "and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
also, I keep hearing this ugly rumor, that no LDS core belief is supported by the BoM, that every strange & mysterious idea came afterwards & that the BoM is Trinitarian. Any truth to that?
Jadon said:
If there were to be no other prophets after Christ, how do you explain the existence of the apostles? They existed after He died, and they received revelations from God through the Holy Spirit. What Jesus meant was, there would be no other Messiah after Him.
okinrus said:
It doesn't matter who baptizes you as long as they possess priesthood authority to do so.
Isaiah 24:5 Changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant
Isaiah 60:2 Darkness shall cover the earth
Matthew 13:25 His enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat
Matthew 24:5 Saying, I am Christ, and shall deceive many
Matthew 24:24 Shall arise false Christs, and false prophets
Acts 20:29 After my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock
Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him
2 Thes. 2:3 That day shall not come, except there shall come a falling away first
2 Tim. 1:15 All they which are in Asia be turned away from me
2 Tim. 4:4 Turn away their ears from the truth...unto fables
2 Pet. 2:1 False prophets also among the people
1 John 2:18 Now are there many antichrists
1 John 4:1 Many false prophets are gone out into the world
Jude 1:4 Certain men crept in...denying the only Lord God
The Bible makes it clear that the day of Christ will not come until after there is a "falling away" first, an apostasy from the truth. Paul and Peter foresaw it and warned the saints about it (see above references). Even in Paul's day, the saints were already turning away from the truth "unto fables."
"Apostle" means "sent one", and that doesn't mean they were prophets of God - although they might still be called "prophets of Christ" (because they were spreading his gospel). See Do We Still Have Apostles?Marlin said: