Mormon Teachings

[water]

So you think Mormonism is "stupid and gullible," eh?

No, people are.

Pot, meet kettle.

But guess who the potter and the kettle-maker is?

 

[Marlin]

But guess who the potter and the kettle-maker is?

Well, they're both related to each other, which is the point of the saying. Mormons aren't the only people to believe things which are considered strange by unbelievers.

 

[water]

Ah, Marlin.

 

[Dug-T]

urghh mormons

STOP COMING TO MY DOOR AND SHOVING YOUR SHIT IN MY FACE.

THANKYOU

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Then you will be led to believe in the Book of Mormon and to join the LDS Church, for it is His Church completely.

I was reading Nehemiah last Saturday, & I realized the BoM was missing 7 items that I could see right away;

1) Jewish rituals- no mention of any, like circumcision, why?
2) priests- no Cohen, no mention of priestly duties
3) Levites- no mention of them
4) Sabbath- no mention of this day? how unJewish
5) foods- they had pigs? how unJewish
6) Hebrew language- only a small scattering, like Benjamin; but "Angola", "Amoron", "Ether", "Moroni"?
http://www.circumcision.net/Heb_Names_A.htm
http://www.circumcision.net/Heb_Names_S.htm
7) foreign wives- if they settled near populated areas, like Mexico, they would have married amongst the natives, as did the Jews during & after the Babylonian Exile. no mention of foreign wives? why?

Here's my point; after the Babylonian Exile, the Jews that returned to Judah, were guilty of a lot of problems that Nehemiah promptly remedied, railed against, prayed, condemned.

See Nehemiah 13
http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Neh/Neh013.html#top

 

[Marlin]

I was reading the Bible the other day and I relized it was missing 7 items that I could see right away:

1) No Hinduism is mentioned, why?
2) Twinkies are not in there, how un-Hostesslike
3) Spanish language--only Jesus, a small scattering of Espanol
4) No foot odor in Israelites, why?
5) Foods--they didn't have liver and onions, how unbiblical!
6) David Letterman was not predicted, hmm?
7) And the number one thing missing in the Bible is:

drumroll:

No mention of haggis!

Here's my point: the Book of Mormon is not a textbook for culture--it is primarily a witness for Jesus Christ, and as such, it is spiritually oriented rather than having a bunch of Jewish trivia facts within its pages.

 

[WildBlueYonder]

I was reading the Bible the other day and I relized it was missing 7 items that I could see right away:

1) No Hinduism is mentioned, why?
2) Twinkies are not in there, how un-Hostesslike

Here's my point: the Book of Mormon is not a textbook for culture--it is primarily a witness for Jesus Christ, and as such, it is spiritually oriented rather than having a bunch of Jewish trivia facts within its pages.

Marlin, you are absolutely hilarious, you must be the life of the party, such sharp wit! hehehehe

but now to more serious matters, as you were reading your Bible, did you notice anything peculiar? Like all those Jews in it? Note Peter needs convincing from God, to eat with the non-Jew 'Cornelius'. Note that nowhere in the BoM are all these foreigners railed against, or even subdued? what impact did BoM people have on Natives? None whatsoever, what impact did Natives have on the BoM narrative? None whatsoever.

Why?

to paraphrase the "Twilight Zone", because "It's a cook book!!!!". the BoM does not fit into any Native Peoples narrative, because it is a novel, a religious docu-drama, dressed up as biblical, about a people that did not exist, same as the Atlanteans, or the Amazons. Nice fictional characters, to make good storytelling, but its a novel, nothing more, nothing less.

that 10 million people believe it, makes it not any more real, but a very good 'cookbook', because those 10 million will lose their chance to understand who Jesus is, and will not get to ask Him into their lives, thus getting cooked in fire & brimstone, a sad ending for our luckless heroes. read your Bible more, meet the real Jesus

 

[Marlin]

but now to more serious matters, as you were reading your Bible, did you notice anything peculiar? Like all those Jews in it? Note Peter needs convincing from God, to eat with the non-Jew 'Cornelius'. Note that nowhere in the BoM are all these foreigners railed against, or even subdued? what impact did BoM people have on Natives? None whatsoever, what impact did Natives have on the BoM narrative? None whatsoever.

Why?

The Book of Mormon prophet Nephi tells us that "it mattereth not to me that I am particular to give a full account of all the things of my father, for they cannot be written upon these plates, for I desire the room that I may write of the things of God.... Wherefore, I shall give commandment unto my seed, that they shall not occupy these plates with things which are not of worth unto the children of men." (1 Nephi 6:3, 6).

The Book of Mormon is not primarily a history book; its primary purpose is for the "convincing of the Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ, the eternal God..." (BoM title page). It is a spiritual book, one which doesn't dwell on history as much as it does on testifying of Christ.

that 10 million people believe it, makes it not any more real, but a very good 'cookbook', because those 10 million will lose their chance to understand who Jesus is, and will not get to ask Him into their lives, thus getting cooked in fire & brimstone, a sad ending for our luckless heroes. read your Bible more, meet the real Jesus

Mormons understand who Jesus is. He is the same being who created the Universe, who came to this world, took upon Himself mortal flesh, ministered unto the children of men, healed the sick, raised the dead, taught great moral truths which are timeless and eternal in nature, suffered for the sins of the world in Gethsemane and on the cross, died, was resurrected in bodily form, ascended to heaven, and stands as the great Mediator and Saviour of the world. Does this sound familiar to you? This is the Jesus that Mormons worship, the Jesus of the Bible and the Book of Mormon. To say He is otherwise is dishonest and reflects a misunderstanding of Mormon doctrine.

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Mormons understand who Jesus is. He is the same being who created the Universe, who came to this world, took upon Himself mortal flesh, ministered unto the children of men, healed the sick, raised the dead, taught great moral truths which are timeless and eternal in nature, suffered for the sins of the world in Gethsemane and on the cross, died, was resurrected in bodily form, ascended to heaven, and stands as the great Mediator and Saviour of the world. Does this sound familiar to you? This is the Jesus that Mormons worship, the Jesus of the Bible and the Book of Mormon. To say He is otherwise is dishonest and reflects a misunderstanding of Mormon doctrine.

dishonest? is the Jesus of the Bible, Satan's brother?
is the Jesus of the Bible, a good mormon from an other planet?
is the Jesus of the Bible, a liar?

I would dare say, "NO" to each of those questions.
if you don't understand why I would, please re-read the Gospels & answer Jesus' question; "who do you think I am?".

 

[Marlin]

dishonest? is the Jesus of the Bible, Satan's brother?

Satan was once good, an angel in authority before God, but he rebelled and fell from his place in heaven. Jesus is Satan's brother only in the sense that Jesus is everyone's brother. They aren't equals in any way, nor are they "in cahoots" with each other. Jesus is the Saviour of the world, while Satan is just a two-bit trumped up tempter. Jesus has all power in heaven and earth, while Satan has very limited power. Jesus is the embodiment of all that is virtuous, good, and right, while Satan is the poster child for all that is evil. They couldn't be more different.

is the Jesus of the Bible, a good mormon from an other planet?

No. Jesus is a good Mormon from this planet.

is the Jesus of the Bible, a liar?

Nope.

if you don't understand why I would, please re-read the Gospels & answer Jesus' question; "who do you think I am?".

Mormons will answer, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God."

 

[piglet1946]

Hey all,

I've just spent all night reading through this thread (lot of posts -- 24 pages on my comp) and had a lot of food for thought. I think Brutus really did an excellent job answering a lot of people's questions about Mormons, and even though I think Marlin's getting a little tired of taking over Brutus' job as the "resident Mormon authority" as it were , I commend him for his attempts to answer all of these posts.

This message is for Jenyar, whom I applaud in being thoroughly researched on both the Mormon church and Christian doctrine in general. I bow to your expertise and research, and I'm not trying to patronize you -- you know the scriptures backward and forward, and I hope that one day my knowledge of the Bible can get to your level.

Anyway, after reading through this thread, it seems that your biggest question (and maybe a lot of others, which is why I made this public -- please don't take offense) is whether Mormons believe in Christ or not.

I'm not trying to speak doctrine here, and I don't want to try and speak for every Mormon you will ever meet. But I do want to stand up and say that I am a Mormon and I do believe in Christ. I also want to say that all the Mormons that I know well enough to know believe in Christ.

Now we could debate all day long about "which Christ" I believe in and about some of His doctrines and teachings and get hung up on tons of details that shrink in comparison with what I think is the most important thing of all: that He lives and that He is our Savior. I truly do believe that, and to my knowledge, every good Christian does too.

I also want to say that I am not some mindless robot who only takes words from a prophet, nor am I a scriptural genius who only takes scriptures as the only word of God. When I have a question about something or feel something to be true, I don't have to go up some chain of authority. I kneel down on my knees and I pray to God -- my Father in Heaven -- and ask Him about it. I have a testimony that He answers my prayers. I do receive personal revelation and guidance within my life.

And EVERY prayer I say is closed in the name of Christ.

I am not trying to say I am perfect -- no one is -- or that I am better than you, but I also think I try to live the life of a pretty good Christian. I go to a different church house than you (if you attend a church house at all -- take no offense to that please, but many worship Christ outside of an organized establishment), and I may study more books and more things that you wouldn't call scripture, but the central focus of my religion practiced in my life is Jesus Christ.

So that may not answer your question, but I hope it does. Maybe all Mormons don't believe in Christ -- I haven't met all Mormons. But every one I've met does, and I know I do. Jenyar, You said that if someone believes in Christ than we are all members of the same church (or something like that). I'd have to agree -- if you believe in Christ, then both of us do go to the same church so to speak. Please don't think I'm not there with you just because I'm a Mormon.

One last thing about missionaries for water's sake -- most of them really do try hard to be friendly, courteous, good Christians. Some are more zealous than others, but I don't think any of them truly believe you'll be damned if you don't join their church. Most of them just get excited because I'm sure, as you know if you've been a Christian for a while, that you've seen how bringing Christ into someone's life can change it for the better. It is an exciting thing to be a part of, and why so many young men serve missions. And the reason why they will probably try and give you a Book of Mormon is because odds are that's how they got to know Christ -- the one and only Savior of mankind. You may think He's a different person, but there can only be one perfect man and one Jesus. If you got to know him from the Bible, then he's the same Christ which I have come to know.

I don't really have much else I can contribute to this forum that hasn't already been said. You may think this is a "load of apologetic sap" or something like that and bash me for it. That's fine with me. You may think I'm hypocritical -- a Mormon may have told you once that you don't believe or don't really know Christ and so I'm just getting my just desserts. I apologize, but I promise that I personallyhave never said that about any other Christian faith -- I believe that all of us know or are trying to know Christ to some degree or another, but few of us know Him with a perfect knowledge -- practicing Mormons included.

To conclude, if you get nothing else from reading this, I want you to get one thing. PLEASE do not think that I do not believe in my Savior because I am a Mormon. That's all I ask. Accuse me and my church of anything. Argue about all the doctrine you want. Even share stories about Mormons you've met who don't believe in Christ or believe this or that about Him or have gone off and started renegade polygamy cults.

But please don't EVER tell me that I am denying my faith in my Savior just because I am a Mormon.

Thank you.

 

[Nasor]

We have actual mormons here to answer questions about their church? Great, here’s one I’ve always wondered about: Didn’t Joseph Smith originally teach that black people were black because they were specially cursed with sin, and shouldn’t be allowed to hold priestly office or marry a white person? Do you still believe this today? If you don’t believe it any more, than how can you be sure about any of his other teachings?

 

[Jenyar]

Satan was once good, an angel in authority before God, but he rebelled and fell from his place in heaven. Jesus is Satan's brother only in the sense that Jesus is everyone's brother. They aren't equals in any way, nor are they "in cahoots" with each other. Jesus is the Saviour of the world, while Satan is just a two-bit trumped up tempter. Jesus has all power in heaven and earth, while Satan has very limited power. Jesus is the embodiment of all that is virtuous, good, and right, while Satan is the poster child for all that is evil. They couldn't be more different.

That doesn't make sense. Jesus is not biological brothers with everyone, least of all Satan. Neither is He a spiritual brother of everyone, least of all Satan:

Matthew 12:48 [Jesus] replied to him, "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?" Pointing to his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."​

 

[Marlin]

Jenyar, according to Mormon teachings, Jesus is of the same race as Gods, angels, humans, and devils--we are all of the same race and thus all of us are brothers and sisters.

 

[Marlin]

Nasor, here is a link for you:

The LDS Church and the Race Issue

 

[Jadon]

Let me Clear up a few things about the Latter Day Saints!!!!

Even the most respected Theologians in the world do not consider the Mormons to be Christians. And to top that off, even the most respected Professors of Relgion (allow me to mention that these are Atheists), do not consider the Mormons to be a Christian Sect.

Now I dont want to name names, but all you have to do is simply do your own research - ask the opinions of at least 100 prominent theologians and professors of religion - you will be surprised with your findings.

No offence, but Satan knows his own, and LDS is one of his own!!!!

 

[water]

Jenyar, according to Mormon teachings, Jesus is of the same race as Gods, angels, humans, and devils--we are all of the same race and thus all of us are brothers and sisters.

If all are of the same race, how can God be the Creator?

 

[Jadon]

I think that The word Race is inappropriate. It smacks of inferiority when referring to the Creator.

A better description would be GENETIC TYPE. So rather then asking - "Is God of the Superior Genetic Type?", we say, "humans are of an Inferior Genetic Type".

And, just as Evolution is a Selective Process, we as Humans are being identified and selected by the Creator. The Question is - Are you willing to Evolve into a superior genetic being?

 

[Marlin]

Jadon, trust me, if you think that the opinions of 100 prominent theologians will make the Latter-day Saints un-Christian, you're mistaken.

Here is an excellent online book by Stephen E. Robinson entitled:

Are Mormons Christians?

Robinson presents six different arguments that have been used against the LDS religion being Christian, and shows how all are fallacious. I've read this book 3 or 4 times and it is remarkably logical when it concludes that Mormons are indeed Christians by any reasonable argument.

 

[water]

Marlin,


If most other Christians don't think you to be Christian, whatever their arguments, does this still leave you Christian?