More Ukrainian Events
- Thread starter Yazata
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Oh, what strategy failed, Putin's? Who will pay the price? And what is the price exactly? It seems to me Putin's Ukraine strategy and his dreams of global domination have failed. And as for price, the Russian people will clearly pay the price. The West welcome Russia into the modern world. It fed Russia. It finance Russia when it's people were starving. And that kindness has been repaid with treachery.
US is doing its global domination plan under cover of "freedom" operations all over the globe...Libya, Iraq, Israel-Palestine, Syria, Ukraine and South American countries prior and Asia prior.
As for the price, USA needed a war and a global war to cause chaos and make its creditors to whom it owns trillions of dollars go bankrupt. That is not going to happen. What will happen is US will go into another recession and a much longer one than the one in 1930s. Ferguson is a prelude to the chaos to come, the people there are rebelling not just against the police, they want CHANGE. Change from the false hopes of "freedom" and change for the better.
Agreed. Looks like Putin is getting his ass handed to him. The separatists have been driven back to two cities (Donetsk and Luhansk) and Luhansk looks like it will soon be back in Ukranian hands. Looks like we are entering the endgame; with peace talks coming up, the separatists are resorting to desperate measures to hang on to some territory to improve their bargaining position, but that position gets worse with every passing week. This is a good thing for Ukraine overall since the separatists will now be under pressure to negotiate a peace sooner rather than later. (Bad for Putin, perhaps, but I can't feel too bad about that.)
And where are the US combat troops in those areas? There are none, with the exception of Asia. And the troops in Asia are there because host governments have requested them. Because when their neighbors like Russia and China come calling with their troops to annex their lands they want a capable defender who will respect the autonomy of host nations. But getting back to your original claim, it looks like Putin’s is the one with the failing strategy. He is losing Eastern Ukraine. Ukraine has become more anti-Russian. Putin, with his unprovoked aggression, has forced neighboring states more to the West. Poland cannot get enough American troops in the country fast enough. Russia’s neighbors remember the Soviet Union and they don’t like it. If Russians were smart, they would realistically remember those days too and take some lesson from those days. But you and folks like you seem hell bent on repeating Mother Russia’s past mistakes.
A) You have NO understanding macroeconomics
B) You are substantially overstating US debt
C) US debt is not critical and is manageable; we have had much higher GDP in the past (i.e. after WWII).
D) The US cannot go bankrupt and is in no danger of going bankrupt and if you had some knowledge of macroeconomics you would know that; therefore using your rationale the US has no need of a global war. The US and its allies prosper in peacetime. War my friend is not good for commerce and would be counterproductive and not in the interests of anyone. You have been reading too much Russian fiction.
E) What happened in the 1929 was called The Great Depression and we are in No danger of repeating it as long as Republicans have limited political power (i.e. no repeat of George Junior)
F) Ferguson is nothing compared to previous race riots. This is where some knowledge of American history would be helpful.
G) And oh yes, you think tyranny is better than democracy. You are the guy who doesn’t like democracy, and that just might be why Russia's neighbors don't like her. So why are you living in the US and not Mother Russia?
Ukraine is overtaken by US fuc**, what's good for Ukraine? Being used as pawn for military tests and NATO expansion while its population has no food, its economy is in even bigger downfall? This war USA has brought with its USAID operation to Ukraine is meant to destroy the country in every aspect of its existence, under pretense of lies.
The Separatists were outnumbered by vast majority of US private Blackwater-like private soldiers. Separatists managed to snipe out the sh** out of them and now their numbers are coming closer to the numbers of the Ukraines armies. Lugansk and Donetsk are just points of rebel control for now, as the US private army soldiers will get sniped one by one and missiles will rain upon them and their corpses will rot in the face of the Ukraine's US inserted government...this whole charade will fall down.
Not really. Mostly the US is watching from the sidelines.
Self-determination by the elected government of Ukraine.
Yep. Fortunately the end is in sight, and with the separatists either eliminated or brought to heel at the bargaining table, Ukraine's economy can recover.
Who else do you want to murder for peace? I recall a lot of figures throughout history who thought along similar lines - "if I can just kill all who oppose me the world will be at peace." Fortunately such people don't make it very long.
Ask Blackwater, they were "supposevly" not there in Iraq. Yet they were clearly used there quite frequently. Same goes for Academi, it is supposevly not in Ukraine too.
In what delusional world do you have to live in, to even say that?
US has sponsored Ukraine's appointed by force government through money and military aid, it has started overtaking control of companies controlling resources, it has got into Ukraine's plane shootdown catastrophy investigation, the head of CIA himself visited Kiev.
What do you have in your brain that makes you see selective things? PREJUDICE.
There will BE NO END to Separatists in Ukraine. Until the last of US inserted government pawns in Kiev will be taken out. Yanukovich was the democratically appointed president. The current chocolate turd in Kiev government is there after Maidan forced themselves into government.
You think this will end well for those who use force under pretense of lies of "Euro integration" and "freedom" ? It will not end well.
The situation at the moment is that the rebels are actually gaining territory (but not enough to be a concern) most notably the soldiers who took (and lost) kraschy lunch are now locked in between the rebels and Russia depending on their ammunition the same story could repeat like that time x number of soldiers "deserted".
Heavy city fighting also implies damage of infrastructure and fighting in a area with a majority share of civilians with cornered rebels. You end up shooting at your own people and they can hold a grudge for that
Unless they broker some peace threathy the war is far from over (this will be difficult because Donesk population is composed for 45% out of Russians) one of the reasons why this mess (of a russian invasion) is actually possible. At the end of this is Ukraine going to allow several 100 Thousands Russians to return? I think that's what the people in those region also wonder. (Their's abouth 7.5 million Russians living in Ukraine). Perhaps the goverment should speak out on this issue. To relax the people that everything is going to be fine in the end or the opposide (that's their choice but a bad one)
This particular world. The one where the US makes a lot of speeches, funds political parties and uses sanctions, and the Russians instead send weapons and soldiers into Ukraine to kill Ukrainians.
And Russia actually USES military force against Ukranians, and gives weapons to the separatists that they use to shoot down planes.
Again, fortunately the Russians are losing this one. It's always good to see the bully losing the fight he started.
Oh, there will be an end. It will be up to them - extermination or a peace treaty. Hopefully it will be the latter; that would be much better for everyone involved.
Definitely true, and that goes for both sides. There is a lot of anger over separatists using cities as hiding place for artillery.
Agreed, which is why I think a peace treaty is critical sooner rather than later. Hopefully the meeting in Minsk will be fruitful.
The war is over if, as appears to be the case, Ukraine can cut off the flow of Russian arms and men into Ukraine and if Putin does not send his uniformed troops across the Ukrainian border in mass. Peace in the region will depend on the ability of Ukrainian government to control its Russian border. At this point, I don't think it likely Putin will send his uniformed troops across the Ukrainian border in mass. But it remains a possibility. Putin is building up his military presence on the border.
Yes there are 7.5 million ethnic Russians living in Ukraine - about 17% of the total population. But 1.5 million of them live in Crimea and many ethnic Russians don’t want to be annexed and ruled by Mother Russia or live in Putin’s Russia. Some of them are actively fighting Putin’s irregular troops inside Ukraine. Contrary to Putin’s propaganda, Ukrainian’s are not now nor have they ever persecuted ethnic Russians. So they would have no trouble with Russians returning as long as they don’t have guns in their hands and mayhem on their in their hearts.
Separatists live in those cities, they were born in those cities, their kids live in those cities, their wives live in those cities, their entire family history is from those cities. While all of the less able to fight citizens of East Ukraine have thus evacuated to Russia, the remaining have stayed behind to fight for their homeland.
So if the "separatists" were born there, why is their recruiting office in Moscow? That seems like a long way to go to sign up to fight in your city.
LOL, that is funny, you accusing someone of being deluded.
That is indeed rich. You have been repeatedly challenged to support your assertions and you have repeatedly failed to even make the attempt.
Well, yes there will be an end. The day Putin decides to stop supplying the "separatists" with men and arms, the fighting will stop. The facts are, this isn't a rebellion. It is an invasion. Up until just a few days ago Russians were leading and fighting this Putin inspired and funded insurrection. And the current Ukrainian president was elected in free and independently validated elections. In a few months, Ukraine will elect a new parliament in a similar manner.
Because the West is not interested in supporting these separatists. The West is interested in having control over Ukraine so that NATO gets its funding and US gets more arms sales and political control over the area. Who else is going to support the separatists? They are Russian and they have right to their home like everyone else. When Maidan happened every little newspaper in Australia and UK was writing about the *brutality* of Yanukovich military forces, but now that thousands are dying in East Ukraine the whole situation is silenced and Russia is made a scapegoat.
Are you certain that the people belief that? You have heard the story abouth the "NAZI" regime It's not for you it's for those 7.5 million people Who fear they will murdered/deported/loose rights. And are forced into action shelling them will fill them with distrused even if everything returns to normal those people will feel discriminated against.
PS Ukraine is going to make sure they have guns in their hands as soon as possible, Ukraine always have been known for making weaponary (it's them that made Russias aircraft carrier for example) and the entire easten Europe is going to increase it's defense budget and part of that contract they signed with the EU makes they can now deliver to NATO.