Man Beheads Wife in 'Honor' Killing

[DiamondHearts]

Slavery is forbidden in Islam. Indeed the Quran told the first Muslims to free their slaves and the slaves in the hands of others. Many of the first Muslims were ex-slaves like Hazrat Bilal, Hazrat Sumaya, and many others (Mercy of God be upon them all). All humans are equal before God, and no one has a right to enslave anyone.

Narrated Abu Musa Al-Ash'ari: "The Prophet said, "Give food to the hungry, pay a visit to the sick and release (set free) the one in captivity (by paying his ransom)." (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Food, Meals, Volume 7, Book 65, Number 286)"

A large number, more than 40 million slaves brought by the white Europeans to the new world were Muslims. They were made to forget their religion and their glorious heritage. What larger crime can one commit than to take away a man's history and his link to his ancestors.

As for where I am from, I am African, Pakistani, Arab, Turkish, Iranian, Malaysian. I am a citizen of the Islamic world, and all Muslims are my brothers and sisters. We are one, whether in life or in death. Each Muslim is a piece of my body and my soul.

As expected, Westerners deflect criticism of their own horrendous past by criticizing others. Using inter-tribal skirmishes to justify wholesale genocide of Native Americans, by using the custom of taking war captives among African to justify perpetual slavery and mental, moral, physical, and spiritual slavery of the black man in America.

Now look at the history, who on this earth has killed, enslaved, and oppressed the largest numbers of human beings in the world. What civilization? Look how much wealth they have gained from the blood of human beings. Cursed is their wealth of the oppressors. God will judge them.

 

[Bells]

Slavery is forbidden in Islam. Indeed the Quran told the first Muslims to free their slaves and the slaves in the hands of others. Many of the first Muslims were slaves like Hazrat Bilal, Hazrat Sumaya, and many others (Mercy of God be upon them all). All humans are equal before God, and no one has a right to enslave anyone.

Narrated Abu Musa Al-Ash'ari: "The Prophet said, "Give food to the hungry, pay a visit to the sick and release (set free) the one in captivity (by paying his ransom)." (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Food, Meals, Volume 7, Book 65, Number 286)"

A large number, more than 40 million slaves brought by the white Europeans to the new world were Muslims. They were made to forget their religion and their glorious heritage. What larger crime can one commit than to take away a man's history and his link to his ancestors.

As for where I am from, I am African, Pakistani, Arab, Turkish, Iranian, Malaysian. I am a citizen of the Islamic world, and all Muslims are my brothers and sisters. We are one, whether in life or in death. Each Muslim is a piece of my body and my soul.

As expected, Westerners deflect criticism of their own horrendous past by criticizing others. Using inter-tribal skirmishes to justify wholesale genocide of Native Americans, by using the custom of taking war captives among African to justify perpetual slavery and mental, moral, physical, and spiritual slavery of the black man in America.

Now look at the history, who on this earth has killed, enslaved, and oppressed the largest numbers of human beings in the world. What civilization? Look how much wealth they have gained from the blood of human beings. Cursed is their wealth of the oppressors. God will judge them.

You sure about that? Absolutely positive?

History says that you have either gotten it wrong or are choosing to ignore that slavery was very much a part of Islam as it was a part of the history of many Western countries.

Traditional Islamic law (fiqh) elaborates significantly on the Qur’anic material concerning slavery. The enslavement of war captives is regulated, along with the purchase and sale of slaves. While it is not permissible to enslave other Muslims, the jurists clarify that if a non-Muslim converts to Islam after enslavement, he or she remains a slave and may be lawfully purchased and sold like any other slave. (This rule closes a potential loophole allowing for slaves to gain their freedom by the simple fact of conversion.) The law also prescribes penalties for slave owners who maltreat or abuse their slaves; these penalties can include forced manumission of the slave without compensation to the owner.

Islamic law devotes special attention to regulating the practice of slave marriage and concubinage, in order to determine the paternity and/or ownership of children born to a female slave. A man cannot simultaneously own and be married to the same female slave. The male owner of a female slave can either marry her off to a different man, thus renouncing his own sexual access to her, or he may take her as his own concubine, using her sexually himself. Both situations have a specific effect on the status of any children she bears. When female slaves are married off, any children born from the marriage are slaves belonging to the mother’s owner, though legal paternity is established for her husband. When a master takes his own female slave as a concubine, by contrast, any children she bears are free and legally the children of her owner, with the same status as any children born to him in a legal marriage to a free wife. The slave who bears her master’s child becomes an umm walad (literally, mother of a child), gaining certain protections. Most importantly, she cannot be sold and she is automatically freed upon her master’s death.

How have these laws played out in Muslim history? Slavery was a social fact in most of the Muslim world for nearly 1400 years, with large numbers of slaves employed in domestic service as well as commerce. Large-scale agricultural slavery, like the plantation slavery of the U.S. South, was seldom practiced in the Muslim world. This was not due to any prohibition against such forms of slave labor, but rather to economic and geographical factors. This does not mean that Islamic slavery was not harsh, as some apologists have argued, or that masters were not sometimes brutal to their slaves.

However, slavery did not always equal low social status. In medieval Egypt, the Mamluk (literally, “owned”) dynasty ruled for some time, with manumitted military slaves rising to govern others. The conscript slave troops (janissaries) of the Ottomans are another example. Most striking is the case of the royal concubines who wielded tremendous influence and amassed considerable wealth in the later centuries of the Ottoman empire.

http://www.brandeis.edu/projects/fse/Pages/islamandslavery.html

And as I said, it is still practiced even today in some societies and attempts to stop it to free the "African brothers and sisters" have fallen on deaf ears. Some countries like Saudi Arabia were among the last to actually outlaw it.

The issue of slavery in Muslim societies is not purely historical but has lingering contemporary effects, especially in certain parts of Africa and the Gulf states. Some majority Muslim nations – Saudi Arabia, for example – were among the last to outlaw slavery in the twentieth century. Vestigial effects of domestic slavery still exist in certain Gulf nations in the failure of police and lawmakers to protect immigrant household workers against potential abuses by employers.

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In some African nations, actual slavery continues. Repeated attempts to outlaw slavery in Mauritania have had little effect. The most recent declaration of abolition, in 1980, has been largely ineffective, with 90,000 black Mauritanians remaining essentially enslaved to Arab/Berber owners.

In the Sudan, Christian captives in the ongoing civil war are often enslaved, and female prisoners are often used sexually, with their Muslim captors claiming that Islamic law grants them permission.

So please cut the holier than thou approach. Your religion practiced it as much as others practiced it.

The Qur'an prescribes a humanitarian approach to slavery -- free men could not be enslaved, and those faithful to foreign religions could live as protected persons, dhimmis, under Muslim rule (as long as they maintained payment of taxes called Kharaj and Jizya). However, the spread of the Islamic Empire resulted in a much harsher interpretation of the law. For example, if a dhimmis was unable to pay the taxes they could be enslaved, and people from outside the borders of the Islamic Empire were considered an acceptable source of slaves.

Although the law required owners to treat slaves well and provide medical treatment, a slave had no right to be heard in court (testimony was forbidden by slaves), had no right to property, could marry only with permission of their owner, and was considered to be a chattel, that is the (moveable) property, of the slave owner. Conversion to Islam did not automatically give a slave freedom nor did it confer freedom to their children. Whilst highly educated slaves and those in the military did win their freedom, those used for basic duties rarely achieved freedom. In addition, the recorded mortality rate was high -- this was still significant even as late as the nineteenth century and was remarked upon by western travellers in North Africa and Egypt.

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Slaves were obtained through conquest, tribute from vassal states (in the first such treaty, Nubia was required to provide hundreds of male and female slaves), offspring (children of slaves were also slaves, but since many slaves were castrated this was not as common as it had been in the Roman empire), and purchase. The latter method provided the majority of slaves, and at the borders of the Islamic Empire vast number of new slaves were castrated ready for sale (Islamic law did not allow mutilation of slaves, so it was done before they crossed the border). The majority of these slaves came from Europe and Africa -- there were always enterprising locals ready to kidnap or capture their fellow countrymen.

Black Africans were transported to the Islamic empire across the Sahara to Morocco and Tunisia from West Africa, from Chad to Libya, along the Nile from East Africa, and up the coast of East Africa to the Persian Gulf. This trade had been well entrenched for over 600 years before Europeans arrived, and had driven the rapid expansion of Islam across North Africa.

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Documentation suggests that slaves throughout Islamic world were mainly used for menial domestic and commercial purposes. Eunuchs were especially prised for bodyguards and confidential servants; women as concubines and menials. A Muslim slave owner was entitled by law to use slaves for sexual pleasure.

http://africanhistory.about.com/library/weekly/aa040201a.htm

 

[DiamondHearts]

Slavery is HARAM in Islam. You can look up what the word haram means. It is something like forbidden.

All prominent traditional and modern scholars have studied hadith and gained guidance from Quran to provide us with the fatawa which regularly condemn slavery. You can copy and paste from whatever sources you wish, but if you go to a mosque or prestigious Islamic university and ask about this matter, they will give you the same answer as me.

It is a sickness of Western mind to deflect their own shame to someone else, and this sickness has lead to untold suffering of millions, if not billions, of people throughout human history, especially Africans and Native Americans, and now the Muslims of the Middle East.

Furthermore, to take the African tradition of taking war captives among the enemy men during a military victory and comparing it to stealing human beings from their homes and villages in the night to beat, shackle, and bring in inhumane conditions on slave ships to America, to be perpetually subjugated mentally, physically, spiritually, and morally and to have one's heritage, language, and culture forcefully suppressed, and finally to have one's children and wife also subject to the oppression of slavery along with all descendants perpetually is definitely the WORST CRIME in human history.

Another note, Saudi Arabia figures prominently in your debates to prove Islam is somehow erroneous. You should know that the Saudi royal family were puppets of the British And French until relatively recently, the Ottoman rule which they overthrew by the complicity of the Europeans was much more representative of the enlightened Islamic view. There are 1.7 billion Muslims in the world, with more than 70 countries. To use Saudi Arabia as the example of Muslims is simply insulting to us.

With your rhetoric you are attempting to blame an entire civilization, religion, and cultural block. Please have some human decency. Most people, even in the West, have accepted that slavery in the Americas was the worst crime in human history, along with the genocide against Native Americans. It is only natural that this rhetoric come to an end. Indeed, at least of those who are intelligent among us, so we can prevent human tragedies like the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq. Little do you know, you are serving the interest of the war hawks in the West in your false portrayal of Islam.

 

[(Q)]

No Islamic court in Pakistan has ever ruled in favor of a husband killing his wife this way. I see it referred to here as honor killing, but actually that is a Western definition to try to blur myth with reality. In Pakistan and other countries, it is called qatal which means murder. Muslim countries also are not the only countries who have this problem, America, India, China, and many others have this problem too. A man does not have to be Muslim to be a murderer and criminal.

It's all rhetoric though.

"Pakistan: Honour killings are known as Karo Kari (Sindhi: ڪارو ڪاري) (Urdu: کاروکاری). The practice is supposed to be prosecuted under ordinary murder, but in practice police and prosecutors often ignore it. Often a man must simply claim the killing was for his honor and he will go free. Nilofar Bakhtiar, advisor to Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz, stated that in 2003, as many as 1,261 women were murdered in honor killings. On December 8, 2004, under international and domestic pressure, Pakistan enacted a law that made honour killings punishable by a prison term of seven years, or by the death penalty in the most extreme cases. Women's rights organizations were, however, wary of this law as it stops short of outlawing the practice of allowing killers to buy their freedom by paying compensation to the victim's relatives. Women's rights groups claimed that in most cases it is the victim's immediate relatives who are the killers, so inherently the new law is just eyewash. It did not alter the provisions whereby the accused could negotiate pardon with the victim's family under the Islamic provisions. In March 2005 the Pakistani parliament rejected a bill which sought to strengthen the law against the practice of honour killing. However, the bill was brought up again, and in November 2006, it passed. It is doubtful whether or not the law would actually help women."

"Pakistan's honor killings enjoy high-level support". Taipei Times. http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2004/07/24/2003180222. Retrieved on 2004-07-24.

Masood, Salman. "Pakistan Tries to Curb 'Honor Killings'". New York Times. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/27/international/asia/27stan.html?oref=login. Retrieved on 2004-10-27.

Shahid Qazi; Carol Grisanti. "Honor Killings Persist in 'Man's World'". MSNBC. http://worldblog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/09/12/1382073.aspx. Retrieved on 2008-09-12.

"Pakistan rejects pro-women bill". BBC News. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4311055.stm. Retrieved on 2005-03-02.

Yasin, Asim. "Pakistan's Senate Approve Women Protection Bill". OhmyNews. http://english.ohmynews.com/articleview/article_view.asp?at_code=375584&no=330818&rel_no=1. Retrieved on 2006-11-25.

"The Reality of ‘Women Protection Bill’". www.livingislam.org. http://mac.abc.se/~onesr/ez/isl2/rwpb_e.html. Retrieved on 2008-09-27.



And then when it is reported, it really isn't reported at all, but lied about instead:

"According to woman rights advocates, The concepts of women as property and honor are so deeply entrenched in the social, political and economic fabric of Pakistan that the government, for the most part, ignores the daily occurrences of women being killed and maimed by their families." Frequently, women murdered in "honour" killings are recorded as having committed suicide or died in accidents."

Yasmeen Hassan, The Haven Becomes Hell: A Study of Domestic Violence in Pakistan, "The Fate of Pakistani Women.",1995 Aug. 72 p. (Special Bulletin), Johns Hopkins Bloomberg

 

[(Q)]

Slavery is forbidden in Islam.

Why do you lie?

"the Quran justifies slavery, and often mentions slaves. Here are some relevant verses:

33:50 - "Prophet, We have made lawful to you the wives to whom you have granted dowries and the slave girls whom God has given you as booty."

This verse clearly shows that Muslims believe that taking slaves in war was a God-given right. These slaves were considered 'booty' or the spoils of war. As the saying goes: to the victors go the spoils.

23:5 - "... except with their wives and slave girls, for these are lawful to them:..."

The passage's context here (not quoted in full) details how Muslim males are allowed to have sexual relations with their wives and slave girls. Implicit in this is that Muslim males had slave-concubines. 70:30 is basically a repeat of 23:5.

Ibn Sa'd's "Tabaqat", gives a clear description of Muhammad having "relations" with at least one of his slave girls. Muhammad had sexual relations with Mariyah, his Coptic slave. Mariyah and her sister, Sirin were slaves given as gifts to Muhammad. Muhammad gave Sirin to Hasan Thabit, the poet. Ibn Sa'd says that Muhammad "liked Mariyah, who was of white complexion, with curly hair and pretty." [Taken from Ibn Sa'd's "Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir" (Book of the Major Classes), p151].

Ibn Sa'd also writes that Mariyah bore Muhammad a son named Ibrahim. He died 18 months later. Sa'd writes: "If he had lived, no maternal uncle of his would have remained in bondage", p164. This shows that there were other Coptic slaves owned by the Muslims.

The Quran also instructs Muslims NOT to force their female slaves into prostitution (24:34), and even allows Muslims to marry slaves if they so desire (4:24), and to free them at times as a penalty for crime or sin (4:92, 5:89, 58:3) and even allows slaves to buy their liberty, if they meet certain of their master's conditions (24:33). [90:10 'freeing of a bondsman' refers to Muslims ransoming other Muslims who were slaves of non-Muslims.]

While I think it's nice to allow a slave to obtain his freedom, (at his master's discretion) it is tragic that Islam allows them to be enslaved in the first place. That's like robbing a bank and giving some of the money back to the bank, and thinking you did the right thing!

The above verses show that taking slaves was ordained by Allah, and that it was permissible for Muslim males to have sex with their female slaves. It also shows that slaves were a valuable commodity to the Muslims, otherwise, Allah would not have imposed the penalty of freeing a slave to make up for a crime."

http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/slavery.htm



"Slaves were obtained through conquest, tribute from vassal states (in the first such treaty, Nubia was required to provide hundreds of male and female slaves), offspring (children of slaves were also slaves, but since many slaves were castrated this was not as common as it had been in the Roman empire), and purchase. The latter method provided the majority of slaves, and at the borders of the Islamic Empire vast number of new slaves were castrated ready for sale (Islamic law did not allow mutilation of slaves, so it was done before they crossed the border). The majority of these slaves came from Europe and Africa -- there were always enterprising locals ready to kidnap or capture their fellow countrymen.

Black Africans were transported to the Islamic empire across the Sahara to Morocco and Tunisia from West Africa, from Chad to Libya, along the Nile from East Africa, and up the coast of East Africa to the Persian Gulf. This trade had been well entrenched for over 600 years before Europeans arrived, and had driven the rapid expansion of Islam across North Africa."

http://africanhistory.about.com/library/weekly/aa040201a.htm

 

[(Q)]

Slavery is HARAM in Islam. You can look up what the word haram means. It is something like forbidden.

Slavery is alive and well and has Islamic ties.



"SLAVERY: STILL A PAINFUL REALITY IN MAURITANIA
(ANSAmed) - TUNIS, FEBRUARY 10 - “Slavery is a painful reality in Mauritania” said President of the Mauritanian organisation SOS Slaves Bairam Ould Messaoud, at a debate in Tunis. “There are families who still have slaves and use them in their homes and farms, without any intervention by the authorities”, especially in the far east and south of the country. Ould Messaoud pointed out that slavery has been against the law since 1984, and said that the ban has never fully worked because “slaves are tied to their owners by intellectual, religious and financial bonds”. He also pointed out that the government made reforms to the law in 2006, tightening financial sanctions against law breakers. However, added President of the Association of Women Support of the Family, Aminatou Bent, this law has never been observed in practice. And she maintains that the authorities are doing little “to end the suffering of many young women who are victims of varying types of abuse, including sexual abuse”.

http://infidelsarecool.com/2009/02/10/slavery-still-practiced-in-muslim-mauritania/

 

[leopold]

With your rhetoric you are attempting to blame an entire civilization, religion, and cultural block. Please have some human decency. Most people, even in the West, have accepted that slavery in the Americas was the worst crime in human history, along with the genocide against Native Americans.

past history.
racism in america as far as her institutions go doesn't exist anymore.
in regards to the american indian most if not all of these atrocities can be pinned on the british, not on the colonizers.

It is only natural that this rhetoric come to an end. Indeed, at least of those who are intelligent among us, so we can prevent human tragedies like the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq. Little do you know, you are serving the interest of the war hawks in the West in your false portrayal of Islam.

afghanistan? what a quaint little country to hold up as a symbol of justice.

 

[S.A.M.]

they haven't invaded anyone in thousands of years

 

[GeoffP]

Slavery is HARAM in Islam. You can look up what the word haram means. It is something like forbidden.

Apparently it is only "something like", because it's still going on. The Quran is rife with the description of justifiable slavery, to say nothing of the commandment to "make others feel oppressed". It would be hard to argue that it prohibits slavery, frankly.

Doubt he was religious. Why do people automatically assume if you're attached to your cultural norms, you must be religious? Thats like saying all Americans who invade and occupy are Crusaders.

I'm sorry, but didn't you do that?

what did u understand from my post !!!

I understood your post completely, Homsi. What did you understand from mine?

 

[GeoffP]

A large number, more than 40 million slaves brought by the white Europeans to the new world were Muslims.

This is an old, and nonsensical, supremacist hack.

BTW, what happened to all the millions and millions of African slaves dragged to the islamic world?

Where did they all go?

 

[S.A.M.]

Where do you think they went?

 

[GeoffP]

Underground, probably.

Say about six feet.

 

[S.A.M.]

I eagerly await citations of the equivalent of the graveyard found in New York

 

[GeoffP]

Again: to what end? You wouldn't believe anything contrary to your viewpoint anyway. I wonder that you even bother to post. Where do you think they all went? To the bathroom?

 

[S.A.M.]

I'm not the only reader here. Surely as a "scientist" you're not afraid of standing up for your assertions?

 

[GeoffP]

Not at all. I merely ask why I should bother when you shrug off anything - everything - you don't like to explain.

 

[S.A.M.]

It would be a good display of your endless ignorance. I bet you don't even know that "Arab" slavers includes both Africans and Jews and that most of their slaves were white women, for their harems. I.e. The flesh trade

 

[leopold]

. . . I.e. The flesh trade

india knows all about that doesn't she sam?

 

[S.A.M.]

Yeah we got westernsed by the British, didn't you hear?

Although, if it's the flesh trade you're seeking Israel is a better stopover.

 

[GeoffP]

It would be a good display of your endless ignorance. I bet you don't even know that "Arab" slavers includes both Africans and Jews and that most of their slaves were white women, for their harems. I.e. The flesh trade

Really? Are you certain? Were there perhaps 18,000,001 white women brought across then? It's odd, you see, because there were 18 million Africans brought in and I thought Europe's population was only a few million.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade

Me and my silly "ignorance", I suppose.