Jesus Without The Bible...?

[heart]

The corp ladder comparison is really inappropriate heart.

sorry...no offense intended

Remember that guy I told you about (like 10 times) who died and went to hell and jesus came and took him out? It was one of those near death experiences. Remember what god told me when I asked him why the other beings there didn't go with them?

there are lots of stories with after death testimonies. there are many who died, experienced "heaven/whatever you call it" and never believed in Jesus. Anyway, look, I'm not trying to take away what you experienced....I just don't buy a loving God being so out of control with human emotion to the point of being as big of an ahole as the Bible makes that one out to be.

Also, do you think I understand what it means that I am the chosen lady, the woman in revelations, and the tree of life?

those q's always make my head hurt :bugeye:

 

[NMSquirrel]

Alledgedly the words of Jesus... You know, as in Christ, as in Christian... Supposedly his words are what Christians follow...

I'm willing to accept that it's all bullshit, but others apparently believe otherwise.

it all about using it as an excuse ..
sometimes i think they put that kind of stuff in the bible to enhance the importance of following God..

which is an easier decision:
to decide on a path because it is less harmful, or one that will be better for you at the end, with some struggle?

IE you see a fork in the road ahead, one is cluttered with thorns and the other is clear, you cannot know what is at the end of the paths but a small sign says the thorny route has unspecified better rewards at the end of it..
most ppl would still choose the clear easier route..the clear route is what religion promises, the sign is God, the choice is yours.

 

[gmilam]

it all about using it as an excuse ..
sometimes i think they put that kind of stuff in the bible to enhance the importance of following God..

Who is this "they" of which you speak? Do you not think God can protect his message from being distorted by "them"?

The topic of the thread is Jesus without the Bible. There is NO Jesus without the Bible. And if the Bible is unreliable, where does that leave us?

 

[Lori_7]

sorry...no offense intended

i'm not offended; it's just not a good comparison at all. the intent, the outcome, the motive, even the level of ambition, and especially the means are not similar in any way.

there are lots of stories with after death testimonies. there are many who died, experienced "heaven/whatever you call it" and never believed in Jesus. Anyway, look, I'm not trying to take away what you experienced....I just don't buy a loving God being so out of control with human emotion to the point of being as big of an ahole as the Bible makes that one out to be.

from my own experience with god i would not say he is not emotional like a human at all. he's not nice, but that's because he's not emotional like a human. the spirit's spoken to me in a conversational way at times, but not like a human would speak. he doesn't exaggerate, he's not egocentric, the focus is always on you, in truth in it's purest most precise form, and he knows more about you than you do. he has laughed at me before a couple of times, and i thought that was kind of humanish.

you know damn well you've got your list of scriptures fine-tuned to focus only on what you think you don't like about god. now THAT is human like and emotional. but you could just as well have a list of scriptures that are loving and kind and are supportive of god and christ. and god help you if you ever got the big picture. i know you don't want the big picture. you want to hate god and christ. you don't have to pretend like it's scripture's fault, or god or christ's fault. you and i both know it's not.

those q's always make my head hurt :bugeye:

me too. less now than it did at first, but only because i don't feel the need to try to figure it out now as i did before. i'm just going to go with the flow you know? so no, i don't understand it entirely, or from a practical point of view. i can't see into the future to find out what it means. but i still believe it because of what i've been through. do you understand?

 

[heart]

i'm not offended; it's just not a good comparison at all. the intent, the outcome, the motive, even the level of ambition, and especially the means are not similar in any way.

Okay, I’ll admit perhaps it wasn’t as good of a comparison as I had thought it to be at the time. Morning time can be a bit more clear for me. But, all I meant was your statements about whatever it takes it doesn’t matter…that you’re in and will do anything it takes, just as long as God can accomplish this thing you’d like. Now that I’ve read over what you wrote I realize you didn’t mean you’d do anything that it takes.

from my own experience with god i would not say he is not emotional like a human at all. he's not nice, but that's because he's not emotional like a human. the spirit's spoken to me in a conversational way at times, but not like a human would speak. he doesn't exaggerate, he's not egocentric, the focus is always on you, in truth in it's purest most precise form, and he knows more about you than you do. he has laughed at me before a couple of times, and i thought that was kind of humanish.

Then do you believe that the stories in the Bible about “God” are true then? Perhaps he’s never acted this way with you, but in the Bible he sure has right and left. He killed a man because he was overtaken by his own rage, Lori. I’d say he was clearly moved by human emotion (anger). There are lots of scripture where God gets angry, jealous (oh hey, I’ll even through in a positive one just for you) and happy.

you know damn well you've got your list of scriptures fine-tuned to focus only on what you think you don't like about god. now THAT is human like and emotional

Nope. One doesn’t have to look very hard to see that this God is very violent. I don’t care if he has joy that springs out of his butt at times or if he might do a kind deed or two. Should a parent be excused because they can do a kind deed or two yet beat the shit out of their child repeatedly? It sounds to me as if you‘re trying to excuse his violent side and/or turn a blind eye to it. I’m getting from you that because I point out these scriptures which expose his violent side that you think I’m purposely ignoring the kind things written about him. I’m just saying no matter who the person or deity or whatever is…those violent actions should not be overlooked, period. Would you let that woman who killed her children watch your own? No? Why not? God ordered the soldiers (which I provided you the scripture) to kill those babies. This woman is no different, right?

 

[keith1]

well since i'm not buying it, what difference does that make?

I'm not buying that. I think you need more time to analyze the data I've presented. To weigh it against what you loose, if you were to consider it's validity. Take your time.

 

[Lori_7]

Okay, I’ll admit perhaps it wasn’t as good of a comparison as I had thought it to be at the time. Morning time can be a bit more clear for me. But, all I meant was your statements about whatever it takes it doesn’t matter…that you’re in and will do anything it takes, just as long as God can accomplish this thing you’d like. Now that I’ve read over what you wrote I realize you didn’t mean you’d do anything that it takes.

i'll do anything it takes. are you saying you wouldn't? you wouldn't do whatever it took to rid the world of evil? why not?

Then do you believe that the stories in the Bible about “God” are true then? Perhaps he’s never acted this way with you, but in the Bible he sure has right and left. He killed a man because he was overtaken by his own rage, Lori. I’d say he was clearly moved by human emotion (anger). There are lots of scripture where God gets angry, jealous (oh hey, I’ll even through in a positive one just for you) and happy.

i think the bible was written that way because we're human, not because god is.

Nope. One doesn’t have to look very hard to see that this God is very violent. I don’t care if he has joy that springs out of his butt at times or if he might do a kind deed or two. Should a parent be excused because they can do a kind deed or two yet beat the shit out of their child repeatedly? It sounds to me as if you‘re trying to excuse his violent side and/or turn a blind eye to it. I’m getting from you that because I point out these scriptures which expose his violent side that you think I’m purposely ignoring the kind things written about him. I’m just saying no matter who the person or deity or whatever is…those violent actions should not be overlooked, period. Would you let that woman who killed her children watch your own? No? Why not? God ordered the soldiers (which I provided you the scripture) to kill those babies. This woman is no different, right?

i already told you i have no way of knowing about the soldiers and the woman. i stick with what i know, and what i know is that the world and humanity is violent.

 

[Lori_7]

I'm not buying that. I think you need more time to analyze the data I've presented. To weigh it against what you loose, if you were to consider it's validity. Take your time.

i took the time. it was an easy analysis when compared with my data.

 

[heart]

i'll do anything it takes. are you saying you wouldn't? you wouldn't do whatever it took to rid the world of evil? why not?

anything is a pretty damn broad statement- so no!

i think the bible was written that way because we're human, not because god is.

wtf is that suppose to mean? Do you believe that the Biblical God commanded babies to be slaughtered because he had issues with their great great great grandfathers? I mean, that's what the Bible says. Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean by your statement. He is showing how he can relate to us by killing, lying, and being a bully?

i already told you i have no way of knowing about the soldiers and the woman. i stick with what i know, and what i know is that the world and humanity is violent.

Lori, do you believe that God commanded the soldiers to kill those babies, women, men and donkeys because he had an issue with their ancestors just like the Bible says?

 

[Lori_7]

anything is a pretty damn broad statement- so no!

interesting. :bugeye:

wtf is that suppose to mean? Do you believe that the Biblical God commanded babies to be slaughtered because he had issues with their great great great grandfathers? I mean, that's what the Bible says. Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean by your statement. He is showing how he can relate to us by killing, lying, and being a bully?




Lori, do you believe that God commanded the soldiers to kill those babies, women, men and donkeys because he had an issue with their ancestors just like the Bible says?

i believe that babies are slaughtered, not because of anything the babies have done themselves, but because of the actions of their ancestors. certainly you would have to agree that this is true. i also believe that nothing happens outside of god's will. now do the math.

 

[gmilam]

i'll do anything it takes. are you saying you wouldn't? you wouldn't do whatever it took to rid the world of evil? why not?

Would you use evil to defeat evil?

"Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one." - Friedrich Nietzsche

 

[Lori_7]

Would you use evil to defeat evil?

"Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one." - Friedrich Nietzsche

that's impossible.

 

[keith1]

i took the time. it was an easy analysis when compared with my data.

The truth should also be an easier analysis. It takes up such little space. It can't be all that complex.
Complexity of belief should be a sure sign of fallacy of thought.

 

[gmilam]

that's impossible.

I was just wondering.

Whapping evil on the nose with the rolled up newspaper of goodness hasn't been much help so far.

 

[heart]

i believe that babies are slaughtered, not because of anything the babies have done themselves, but because of the actions of their ancestors. certainly you would have to agree that this is true. i also believe that nothing happens outside of god's will. now do the math.

My math says the Biblical God stinks and lies and kills all the while trying to convince others he's a hero.

The Bible states that God will not punish those for the sins of their fathers. Then God turns around and does it anyway. That's the Biblical God for ya....always contradicting himself.

Anyway, so you do believe that God killing babies is an okay kind of thing to do? What about the woman who killed her children for God because he told her to? What about the children who simply made fun of a prophet for having no hair...ohhhhhhhh my....such a sin for a child to make fun of a prophet. How did God punish them? Did he restrict their TV? No, he had them killed brutally by bears.

I guess I just don't understand how all of that jives with you when he contradicts himself by saying that children should NOT be punished for their fathers sins and yet does it. That and how his violence doesn't bother you to the point of questioning it? If violence and bloodshed is such the grand solution that God tries to make it out to be...why do we cringe when parents engage in such acts with their children?

 

[NMSquirrel]

Who is this "they" of which you speak? Do you not think God can protect his message from being distorted by "them"?

look up the canonization process to find out who..(romans)
and no i do not think God can stop editing for flavor..or more of a God will not,he created us with the ability to choose,why would he do that just to take it away?

The topic of the thread is Jesus without the Bible. There is NO Jesus without the Bible.

true enough..according to Medicine Woman, jesus is fictitious anyway..
but i am sure stories would survive without the bible..

And if the Bible is unreliable, where does that leave us?

taking responsibility for our own beliefs.

 

[gmilam]

and no i do not think God can stop editing for flavor..or more of a God will not,he created us with the ability to choose,why would he do that just to take it away?

Why would he offer a plan for salvation just to have someone reword it?

taking responsibility for our own beliefs.

Already doing that.

 

[NMSquirrel]

Why would he offer a plan for salvation just to have someone reword it?

to me this question is more of a 'how has man interpreted what God has done/said?'

let me try this:
i believe God can communicate to us on more than one level.
we communicate with each other in different levels IE, body language,facial expression,language,etc..But God can communicate with us on other levels,
i believe that when God talks to us on that level, it is not with words or spoken language, it is through perception,feeling,intuition, and the like..

can you begin to see how the 'proof' concept is totally the wrong question?
how can we prove what we feel?

Already doing that.

sounds like it..:thumbsup:

 

[gmilam]

sounds like it..:thumbsup:

BTW - Not trying to change anyone's mind or burst anyone's bubble here. Just trying to understand why my fellow humans believe what they believe.

 

[Lori_7]

My math says the Biblical God stinks and lies and kills all the while trying to convince others he's a hero.

The Bible states that God will not punish those for the sins of their fathers. Then God turns around and does it anyway. That's the Biblical God for ya....always contradicting himself.

Anyway, so you do believe that God killing babies is an okay kind of thing to do? What about the woman who killed her children for God because he told her to? What about the children who simply made fun of a prophet for having no hair...ohhhhhhhh my....such a sin for a child to make fun of a prophet. How did God punish them? Did he restrict their TV? No, he had them killed brutally by bears.

I guess I just don't understand how all of that jives with you when he contradicts himself by saying that children should NOT be punished for their fathers sins and yet does it. That and how his violence doesn't bother you to the point of questioning it? If violence and bloodshed is such the grand solution that God tries to make it out to be...why do we cringe when parents engage in such acts with their children?

imo you have such an emotionally distorted view of things, and i honestly, at this point, think you do it on purpose. i mean, i can understand buying the crap your parents shoved down your throat when you were younger, but you're all grown up now. now it's your fault.

you're not doing the math. now fucking focus for crying out loud. babies die all the time. not just from natural causes, but violent deaths, from war, disease, and abusive people, including their parents. AND NOTHING HAPPENS OUTSIDE GOD'S WILL. do i think suffering and death is ok? no i do not. that is why i love christ.