Israel, Palestine and the Arab/Israel Conflict

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the leadership of the local Arabs at the time in Palestine was very close to Hitler. they also wanted to bring German engineering to Palestine so they could render Palestine judenrein

looks like these Arab Palestinians got cursed the Bible-way: you, and your 3 future generations are cursed if you hurt the People of Israel. the prophecy fulfills itself.
 
...the only had to share a sparsly populated underdeveloped ungoverned and arid area, how is that suffering?

Using that logic so does Nebraska...you aren't making any point. Firstly the land was not sparsly populated, the population in the land was in excess of 350,000 in the 1820's before any Zionist immigration, for the land the size of Palestine that is a lot, and taking into consideration the the Palestinians had one of the highest population growth rates in the world...but I digress...facts are jokes. Secondly underdeveloped yes...as was Uganda which was the first proposal for the "Jewish State" frankly Uganda was SIGNIFICANTLY less developed why not there? Thirdly ungoverened? Ok what do you call the Mustafarif of Jerusalem one of the only regions in the Ottoman empire which answered only to Constantiople. The Palestinian Arabs were ruling their own land and had government experience b/c the Ottomans used locals to rule their territories...so try again.

They could have benefited from immigration, and not lost any land at all, if only they weren't so exclusionary.

Excuse me? Again what is nonsense based on? Did you ever even read a book on this subject at all? I suspect you haven't because one thing we know is that they were going to lose land innately since the Jewish fund kicked off Arabs from land that they bought, and today Arabs are still barred from buying large swaths of land in the Levant, apartheid...indeed. To be fair initial Zionism proposed a one state solution, which would have been better then the morass we have now. It was the Zionists decision in 1942 to want a state is what stated the exclusion.

Besides, the arabs were on the side of facism, it was their sin, too.

The Palestinians weren't save the Grand Mufti, 9000 Palestinians fought for the British in WWII...why do you omit that because I know I told you that already. The mufti's attempts were largely ignored in Palestine. Using your logic Zionists did much to conspire as well...like Jabotsky offering Hitler and alliance to create a "Hebrium Lebensraum"...yes...you want to talk about conspiring...

Many countries shared the shame of not doing enough to fight the Nazis, including the US.

Palestine was not one of them, they fought along the British in WWII.
 
the leadership of the local Arabs at the time in Palestine was very close to Hitler.

Proof would be very nice...because I know that Palestine was the only Arab state not to have a significant pro-Nazi goverment.

they also wanted to bring German engineering to Palestine so they could render Palestine judenrein

Proof would be nice...and no geocities, or overtly bias crap...a accredited book would be nice thank you.

looks like these Arab Palestinians got cursed the Bible-way: you, and your 3 future generations are cursed if you hurt the People of Israel. the prophecy fulfills itself.

Actually the sadly the reality is that Zionists have cursed the ppl of Israel by pretending to be Israel...you want to talk about cursed...look at Israel today not pretty.
 
The Palestinians weren't save the Grand Mufti, 9000 Palestinians fought for the British in WWII.
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Proof would be very nice...because I know that Palestine was the only Arab state not to have a significant pro-Nazi goverment.
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I doubt both of these statements, mostly because of what I read here.

such as...

"....an Arab Legion was founded and fought under the German flag. The Arab soldiers had hoped to fight in the Middle East, but were instead sent to the Russian front, where they were completely wiped out while fighting in the Caucasus region. Some time later, in response to the British decision to create a Jewish Brigade made up of some of the 26,000 Palestinian Jews who had fought under the United Kingdom’s flag, the Mufti convinced the Germans to create an Arab Brigade. The unit, however, either did not fight or was not very efficient because very little is known about it."
 
Read a book not propaganda...even if that was true (which it probably is). I cannot accept it from such a bias source. The Arab Legion...there was an Indian legion, a French, a Russian, can I name oh so much more? Shall you colonize India while we are at it? See that’s the problem with pointing fingers in WWII every country had its sympathizers. I would like you to show me how many millions of Indians fought for the British, how many Arabs…etc? This one sided crap you are telling me is just that…crap.
 
One sided or not, the article points to the overwhelming conclusion that, with the exception of Palestinian Jews, the Palestinian Arabs and Arabs in general supported the Axis powers, and in many cases fought and died for them. Show me how 9000 Palestinians fought for the British side. That would have been uncharacteristic, given the rise in popularity at that time of fundi inspired anti-Jewish feelings.
 
One sided or not,

Hmmmm...yet you don't like neo-cons Spider?

the article points to the overwhelming conclusion that, with the exception of Palestinian Jews, the Palestinian Arabs and Arabs in general supported the Axis powers,

Well of course that is crap upon crap:

There was genuine sympathy among many Palestinians for Britain during the war, which in practice translated into a respite from harassment for the government Leaders such as Fakhri al Nashashibi encouraged enlistment for British army service. About nine thousand signed up directly, and another fourteen thousand joined the Transjordan Arab Legion, a fighting force linked to the Allied deployment (Kimmerling 142)
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Bull shit lies you presented destroyed…about the Mufti:

Nazi propagandists attempted to present Haj Amin as a pan-Islamic figure, “der Grossmufti”…calling for the faithful to jihad against the godless British Zionist-Bolshevik forces. A small Arab unit became part of the Wehrmacht, fighting on the Russian front…but the Mufti failed to rally the Arabs of Palestine to support the Germansno organized pro-Nazi movement developed inside the country, as occurred in several other Arab lands. (Kimmerling 142)
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I would feel stupid too…buying Nazi propaganda in 2005...sick and twisted. So now I guess the last of the rationalizations is over, enough with the lies please...
 
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I believe that Israel being created was absolutely the most idiotic thing the Brits ever did. They were a hated race and religion in the area who are now bombed nearly weekly, and frankly I think it was the Brits fault for the major turmoil in the Middle East with creating Israel.
The British are still as arrogant as ever and who has to pull Israel out of the shithole every time they fall in now? Thats right the US. So now when Israel starts WWIII and the US is forced to save Israel I want every American to thank the British.
 
R' Chelbo teaches: [At the onset of exile,] G-d had the Jewish people make four oaths to him: a) that they will not rebel against the gentile kingdoms; b) that they not try to pressure their time of salvation to come sooner; c) that they not reveal their [Torah] secrets to the nations of the world and, d) that they not forcibly climb over the walls [of Jerusalem in an attempt to conquer it] and break out of exile. We see from here that it is only the Moshiach who will gather in and bring up all of the Jewish people from exile (Midrash Chazis, Section2; Maharza"v).
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From the horses mouth.

Zionism breaks all those rules, and again I will repeat as the New Testaments states about these people:

“Revelation 2
9I know your afflictions and your poverty-yet you are rich! I know the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.”
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It is true that not only has Zionism put the Jewish people and Israel (real Israel) in trouble forever due to breaking her oaths to G-d. Since being Jewish is not a “racial” distinction (if it were I would be Jewish, and Israeli immigration law would be eugenically based not religiously based), but a religious one those who are atheist and say they are Jewish are what is said above. That’s from the word of G-d, not me. Granted those who are atheist and believe they are part of some mystical nonexistent “Jewish race” will disregard the obvious because like Santa Clause you want to believe.

The Jewish people will be saved [from exile] only when they return to G-d. The Torah assures us that eventually, at the very end of the exile, the Jewish people will return to G-d and then, they will be immediately saved, as the verse states (Devorim 30:1-3), "And it will happen, when all these things will come upon you…then you will return to Hashem your G-d…and Hashem your G-d will bring back your captives, He will come back and gather you from among all the peoples" (Rambam, Chapter 7, Laws of Teshuvah).
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G-d…not atheist Herzl.
 
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Israel and Palestine have a good chance of making peace now that Arafat is dead.

According to the Bible the end times start when peace comes to the Middle East...don't hold your breath, and the peacemaker should be European.
 
The Jews had no way of knowing what would happen in the future, the only prophecies that have come true are the ones that were creatively interpreted after the fact to fit what happened. Anyway, what's so bad about the end times, I look forward to the end of history. Then our genes might have a real chance of surviving into the next millions of years.

Most importantly, doesn't this prophecy sabotage any chance of peace and worldwide cooperation (one world government)? It should be forgotten as a piece of dangerous propaganda.

My view on the race thing is that Jews aren't a race, there hasn't been enough time and isolation for any major distinctions to occur, but they are both an ethnic group and a religion, akin to the Kurds or Tamils. Such distinctions are not absolute, but should be respected. Race is only how you chose to define it, in reality, racial qualities emerged so recently in evolutionary history that everyone might as well be considered identical. We all came from Africa. We are all brothers and sisters. In fact all animals are brothers and sisters.
 
The Jews had no way of knowing what would happen in the future, the only prophecies that have come true are the ones that were creatively interpreted after the fact to fit what happened.

Of course that’s true, but the point of religion is faith in the future being one destined by God. Religion is a weird thing, I know but to Jews, Christians, Muslims that is the point of religion to get to that stage in which one can achieve what was dictated in the revelations by God. Its called faith…I don’t like the idea of blind faith but that’s the point of religion. Since Zionists have forsaken G-d and Judaism, they should not call themselves Jews, or their state Israel. They belong to the golden calf that is Zionism…you have been lead astray…and if the prophesies are right…you will pay dearly.

Most importantly, doesn't this prophecy sabotage any chance of peace and worldwide cooperation (one world government)? It should be forgotten as a piece of dangerous propaganda.

If its G-d’s plan, then what we want means nothing.

but they are both an ethnic group and a religion, akin to the Kurds or Tamils.

Again no…because there aren’t Chinese Kurds…there are Chinese Jews.

We all came from Africa. We are all brothers and sisters. In fact all animals are brothers and sisters.

I agree with that, I don’t like the fact that we are separated so arbitrarily. We are one race, the human race, and hopefully man will one day be able to live together. Both Arabism, and Zionism are great impediments, as is Islam, Christianity, and Judaism.
 
Israel and Palestine have a good chance of making peace now that Arafat is dead.
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Total bullshit.
Israel will continue to expropriate land, dispossess Palestinians of their homes, and continually treat them like second-class citizens, until the U.S.A stops turning a blind eye.

Likewise, until Israel stops with its abuse and violations of the Geneva convention and basic human rights, and its land grabbing, the Palestinian terrorist attacks will not stop.
 
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just what I suggested in my Palestinian relocation thread

I told you those arabs are crazy fanatics
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I think it would be better to give to the palestinians one of the states in the USA. The USA is large and one state would not make much difference. Also it would put a considerable distance between the opposing sides.
 
Why should the Arabs move if it was the Zionists who were the immigrants? Should all native Americans go to the Nunavut? Honestly it’s pathetically stupid to even contemplate such idiocy...but usually we are dealing with idiots so I don’t expect much more apart from innate idiocy. Again the best thing is for both sides to live together as one nation, if that doesn’t happen, well then both sides will kill each other.
 
Zionism is an ideology, not a person. Zionism could have spread to Jews who were not recent immigrants too, and there were a substantial number of Jews living in the region for hundreds of years. Since, due to the long conflict and basic ideological and religious differences, a single state for all of them would be dangerously unstable, they should have their own states.

I am not as pessimistic as undecided or hirsutehillbilly, mutual death benefits no one. Self-preservation, at the very least, will lead to a comprimise.
 
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Zionism is an ideology, not a person.

As is Judaism…if I can call someone a Jew I can just as easily call someone a Zionist. Remember Zionism is a religion just like Judaism the religion of nationalism, just the Zionism is to Jew a Golden calf…or at least should be.

Zionism could have spread to Jews who were not recent immigrants too, and there were a substantial number of Jews living in the region for hundreds of years.

They never wanted or asked for a state, the lived in relative harmony with the surrounding tribes, according to one book I read there were only 2 Jews in Jerusalem during the Crusades…there weren’t many Jews in the region there were some.

Since, due to the long conflict and basic ideological and religious differences, a single state for all of them would be dangerously unstable, they should have their own states.

The problem imo isn’t the end it’s the means to getting to those two state solution, neither side is going to budge on certain things and that will make a two state solution a dream. One state is a Zionist concept I hope you know…eventually if Israel doesn’t join in one state with the Palestinians the Pals will be destined to take over demographically…2015-2025-ish, the countdown has begun. Its time for Israeli’s to decide…

Self-preservation, at the very least, will lead to a comprimise.

Its hasn’t for the last 40 years…what’s going to change now?
 
AvatarOfWoe said:
it is good that the conflict in the middle eats will now maybe some to an end.
just thinking out loud here, but look at the size of israel compared to the rest of the arab world, why can't the palastinians who for the most part can't satn israelies move to one of the surronding arab nations?
just a notion.
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do you think before you type? more to the point, do you know anything about the illegality of the israeli Occupation of Palestine? and i use the term 'illegality' with the support of the UN behind me. why should palestinians leave their homes and move elsewhere? of course i refer to those who have managed to stay in their homes, rather than having them bulldozed to the ground and their neighbours murdered by IDF terrorists.
 
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