Israel, Palestine and the Arab/Israel Conflict

Status
Not open for further replies.
surenderer said:
originally posted by KarmaShock:

If you want the land, then there will be no peace



Thats just what the Palestinians have been saying
Click to expand...
You didn't read the rest... The only recorse is war. We can't sit here dicking around forever. So if you will not negociate, then we go to a test of strength.

Neither israel nor the US wants this... but we don't have much choice.

Reap the whirlwind, Karmashock.
Edit: Cus' it's funny...
http://www.boreme.com/bm/JAN05/a/vw-suicide-bomber/fr.htm
 
Last edited:
Palestine never existed as an independent state and has been the property of various empires for thousands of years.

But Palestinians did govern their territory, they had farms, they had land claims, so regardless of whether or not there was ever an independent Palestinian state its of no relevance, because they recognized themselves as a nation prior to the first Zionist, and the first inkling in the eyes of self-hating Jews in the Pale.

Israel is tiny country and it shall remain.

According to recent studies not longer then 20 years.

If you want the land, then there will be no peace. Don't pretend you want it when your only conditions are surrender. Declare your intentions so that we can just get to the buisness of war. That at least is honest.

The intentions have been declared long ago, Israel isn’t wiling to give into them.
 
i've never ever heard of a single case like that.

Even if you did, you would probably ignore its existence and go in a corner and put on your tin foil hat, somewhat like everything you believe to be true.

even if there was such a case (there would be very few since Israel's military doesn't make such mistakes), that doesn't mean that every Hizballah attack is faked.

Mistake? This is was probably done on purpose to degrade the peace talks, and avoid having to deal with peace yet again, and then scream “we are victims” all over again, who knows how many times Israel has sabotaged peace.
 
There will be no right of return for Palestinians, in many cases, there is nothing left for them to return to. It's like two little kids fighting, first you leave them apart so they can calm down. You can expect extremists on both sides to try and sabotage any peace, some of this is expected, and they have to go on anyway. It pains me that peace might happen on George Bush's watch, but it is incouraging news all the same. No country that has nuclear weapons will disappear, not when they are as nationalist as the Israelis.
 
No country that has nuclear weapons will disappear, not when they are as nationalist as the Israelis.


The problem is that threat comes from within not from outside, if Israel is going to use her nukes it would have to be against herself. This is one reason why Israel is a state without foundations, this should never happen in a real country, a country shouldn’t be dependant on immigration for its existence otherwise its not a nation but a huge refugee camp.
 
You didn't read the rest... The only recorse is war. We can't sit here dicking around forever. So if you will not negociate, then we go to a test of strength.
Click to expand...


Ok fair enough.....still sounds like the Palestinians to me



So if you will not negociate, then we go to a test of strength.
Click to expand...



The Palestinians tried for a long time to negociate...but only resorted to terror tatics after they were continually ignored but since you dont care about the UN (at least when you disagree with what they say) then this wont matter to you either:



The General Assembly,

Having considered the question of Palestine,

Having heard the statement of the Palestine Liberation Organization, the representative of the Palestinian people,1/

Having also heard other statements made during the debate,

Deeply concerned that no just solution to the problem of Palestine has yet been achieved and recognizing that the problem of Palestine continues to endanger international peace and security,

Recognizing that the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations,

Expressing its grave concern that the Palestinian people has been prevented from enjoying its inalienable rights, in particular its right to self-determination,

Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter,

Recalling its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,

1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:

(a) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

2. Reaffirms also the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return;

3. Emphasizes that full respect for and the realization of these inalienable rights of the Palestinian people are indispensable for the solution of the question of Palestine;
4. Recognizes that the Palestinian people is a principal party in the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East;

5. Further recognizes the right of the Palestinian people to regain its rights by all means in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations;

6. Appeals to all States and international organizations to extend their support to the Palestinian people in its struggle to restore its rights, in accordance with the Charter;

7. Requests the Secretary-General to establish contacts with the Palestine Liberation Organization on all matters concerning the question of Palestine;

8. Requests the Secretary-General to report to the General Assembly at its thirtieth session on the implementation of the present resolution;

9. Decides to include the item entitled "Question of Palestine" in the provisional agenda of its thirtieth session.

1974, the General Assembly UN

http://www.un.org/Depts/dpa/ngo/history.html
 
No, they demand the right of return, which is no acceptable.

It would mean the death of israel as you well know, so you KNOW DAMN WELL YOU"RE NOT BEING REASONABLE!

At this point... give them 10 years to become peaceful... failing that, if I were Israel, I'd just deport them all and claim all the territory for myself. Because I don't really see any other alternative if they're not going to agree to terms that will allow Israel to exist.
 
they demand the right of return
notice the semantics: "right" of "return"

it's not a "right", it's a demand
and it's not "return", it's "1st visit and stay for ever", since almost none of the people who call themselves "Palestinian" today ever set foot in Israel.

there are those who have permits to work inside Israel, which are like foreign workers.
and there are those who did live there before '48. out of the 600000-900000 of the original so-called refugees, the majority is dead from old age.

that makes the "right" of "return" a pretty funny way to call what they talk about.

Does it matter if they faked everyone of the attacks? Isnt the fact that they may have faked "a couple" bad enough?
they haven't faked a single attack. there might have been confusion over one attack. man, let it go.
 
it's not a "right", it's a demand

No by definition it’s a right of those people to return to their ancestral homes, which were largely stolen from them, and are now inhabited by Israeli’s. A right is a demand for justice, and currently the fact that they are outside of their homes is a rights abuse.

and it's not "return", it's "1st visit and stay for ever", since almost none of the people who call themselves "Palestinian" today ever set foot in Israel.

That doesn’t preclude them from going back to their homes, using that logic not one Jew from Europe should have stepped on that land, frankly 99% of Jewry shouldn’t have touched that ground, like the religion says.

that makes the "right" of "return" a pretty funny way to call what they talk about.

Then Israeli’s immigration laws are a book of jokes.

they haven't faked a single attack. there might have been confusion over one attack. man, let it go.

How can one let it go when Israel blamed the attacks on “terrorists” and it was probably her doing the attacking against her own villages to sabotage the peace talks? I would imagine that Israel does this a lot, we know that Israel tried in the past tried to blame terrorist attacks on other Arab states when it was her doing the attacking.
 
otheadp said:
Brian you really are cute... you think the Israeli government orcestrates attacks on its own civilians? tell that to the 14 year old boy who was killed in North Israel last year, or the IDF soldier demining the border of Hizballah mines, who were both shot and killed by Hizballah artilery guns.
Click to expand...


The international military peacekeeper teams in Lebanon have radars which can track artillery and rocket trajectories . They would of known exactly where this ordnance would of come from which explains Israels backdown of its original accusation .
 
Just in case you posters have forgotten Israel has a wide and long history of agent provocateuring . these 2 examples from recent the Australian one yesterday and these are freindly nations !

New Zealand Prime Minister Thinks Israeli Spies Were On Assassination Mission
http://www.parapolitics.info/phorum/read.php?f=31&i=542&t=542&v=t
Click to expand...

Downer silent on expelled Israelihttp://reg.theage.com.au/login.do?status=FAIL&errMsg=&errCode=10001&site=AGE&server=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theage.com.au&data=%2Fnews%2FNational%2FDowner-silent-on-expelled-Israeli%2F2005%2F02%2F07%2F1107625136182.html%3Foneclick%3Dtrue&count=0
Click to expand...
 
Why do people even bother with Isreal and Palestien? There will probably never be peace there. It shall always remain a volitile area because you've got two people who are extremists. One makes an attack and the other evens the score. It goes back and forth and will probably never end.
 
speaking of "wrecking peace" :

Hizballah is trying to torpedo the recent truce signed between Israel, "Palestinians"

Israel has been talking about Hizballah involvement for years (but you know those damn lying Zionist liars and their lies, eh? faking attacks and everything...). but this time the accusation comes from top PA officials.

The Lebanese militant group Hezbollah is trying to recruit Palestinian militants for attacks on Israelis in order to sabotage Middle East peace efforts, senior Palestinian officials said Wednesday.
...
We know that Hezbollah has been trying to recruit suicide bombers in the name of Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades to carry out attacks which would sabotage the truce," said one official, referring to a militant offshoot of Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah faction.
...
"Now they are willing to pay $100,000 for a whole operation whereas in the past they paid $20,000, then raised it to $50,000," the second official told Reuters.

Palestinian officials blamed a recent attack launched in the West Bank city of Nablus on Hezbollah.
...
it is unclear if this reflected a heightened desire to see violence flare up or a dearth of recruits.
Click to expand...

a recenet Security Council resolution reaffirmed that Israel has fulfilled its complete obligations in 2000 when it withdrew from Lebanon. but Hizballah don't think so. furthermore, Hizballah, emboldened by Israel's retreat, has continued to attack Israel, violating its obligations and promises.

Hizballah, with a $90,000,000 annual budget, gets its money and weapons from Iran, via Syria.

while Iran openly states "death to Zionists and Zionism", Syria is talking "peace" at the same time while arming and funding Hizballah and Hamas.
 
if all external rejectionist groups and governments just minded their own fucking business, the peace process would be complete in 4 years instead of 40
 
While there is no question that the groups like Hezbollah, and Hamas are just as much impedements to peace as oth and his Zionist hardliners, thankfully moderates on both sides are coming together to at least talk. What they say about Sharon must be true, only a warrior can bring peace, but I fear that Sharon may be the Israeli Arafat because I doubt he will go far enough to really bring peace to the region. Now the onus is on Israel because the P.A seems to be doing its job, can Israel deliever the goods?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top