Israel, Palestine and the Arab/Israel Conflict

[Undecided]

According to you, Orthodox Jews shouldn't be pro-Israel.

There are Orthodox Jews that are pro-Israel, I forgot their name, starts with an H (not Hassidic).

Also there's a difference between a political rally and a message board.

Is there really? All I care about is the mentality not the means of expressing that mentality. You are a “anti-semitie” by your own definitions.

Anyway, Jews can poke fun at themselves the way blacks can call each other nigger, but it's different when other people do it. Are blacks that say nigger racists?

Who says you’re a Jew?

 

[path]

Look out here comes another oppressor to steal iraqi babies!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3756192.stm

Quick call the freedom fighters!

 

[path]

Cheap Shots and unecessary sarcasm Path but thats ok....oh yea and Im sure that the US has killed more Iraqi's than anyone else there has. I dont know who is bombing Sewage Plants and why they are but untill those totals match the 10-20k dead from bombings and the 1million from sanctions then your case is weak...

What is a cheap shot? These are the fruits of violence I have been consistent. My core issue is of course the hypocrisy of saying killing is bad then turning around and saying well this killing is not so bad. It all ends the same with people dead of unnatural causes. Once you step onto that slippery slope you no longer have control, I simply posted some examples.

you see you cant tell me who is doing the car bombs in Iraq....could be the US to keep the country unstable to justify there presence.....could be Israeli's.......could be Iranians......I somehow doubt it's your ordinary Iraqi who NEEDS these things to survive.

Probably not an ordinary Iraqi most probably just want to get by but most likely an iraqi who would term himself a freedom fighter. The idea that it might be americans doing it is ridiculous tell me what would be the best for the american occupation forces? example; Look no insurgency, we are fixing thier infrastructure, everything is great, we are saviors. If an excuse was needed to justify staying in iraq was needed I'm sure they could come up with something much more tidy.

I never said that everyone their is fighting as freedom fighters but I do say that I would bet that most of them are. Their are "bad apples" in every bunch(just like in the US military)

How do you tell them apart from the good apples? Who is trying to build up Iraq and who is just trying to kill US and interim govt. troops no matter the resultant carnage?

Why bring Islam into this? This is an occupation topic not a religous one right? does every argument have to fall back into violence in the Koran with you? Since there are no car bombings goin on in the UK or the US right now means that your hate-speech about muslim violence is nothing but parinioa and has no fondation....please remember Path that terrorism isnt something that only happens to YOU the West has supported and directly given plenty of it themselves....since you wanna bring the Koran up though:

Did I give an anti-muslim hate speech? I simply made one comment.

2.11] And when it is said to them, Do not make mischief in the land, they say: We are but peace-makers.
[2.12] Now surely they themselves are the mischief makers, but they do not perceive.


Sounds like the West to me

Could also be the insurgents who are kidnapping aid workers blowing up kids and iraqis just trying to make some money to feed thier families, or blowing up mosques and churches to kill the kafirs.

 

[surenderer]

]

The idea that it might be americans doing it is ridiculous tell me what would be the best for the american occupation forces? example; Look no insurgency, we are fixing thier infrastructure, everything is great, we are saviors. If an excuse was needed to justify staying in iraq was needed I'm sure they could come up with something much more tidy.

Like what?? The US has all the guns.....It's obvious that Iraqi's need security.....1+1=2 right?

My core issue is of course the hypocrisy of saying killing is bad then turning around and saying well this killing is not so bad

Sorry dude but thats life.........killing innocents is always wrong but killing guilty murderers is acceptable(to me)no matter what their nationality.But if thats how you feel I guess you must have been pretty upset when the US responded to 9-11 by bombing Afghanistian right?

Who is trying to build up Iraq and who is just trying to kill US and interim govt. troops no matter the resultant carnage?

Whats wrong with them trying to kill US troops? It's War right? If the US doesnt like it the answer to their Iraqi problems are simple......LEAVE

 

[Undecided]

The US is in the wrong in Iraq, and thus Americans shouldn't be surprised that her men are dying.

 

[path]

The US is in the wrong in Iraq, and thus Americans shouldn't be surprised that her men are dying.

Totally agree

 

[path]

]
Like what?? The US has all the guns.....It's obvious that Iraqi's need security.....1+1=2 right?

No they have the most heavy weapons definately not all the guns even during the recent weapon buyback it was agreed that every iraqi home should have 1 rifle (usually an AK 47) per male in the household.

Sorry dude but thats life.........killing innocents is always wrong but killing guilty murderers is acceptable(to me)no matter what their nationality.But if thats how you feel I guess you must have been pretty upset when the US responded to 9-11 by bombing Afghanistian right?

That is fine if that is your consistent view just don't come bitching when someone you like gets killed because as you say that is life dude.

Whats wrong with them trying to kill US troops? It's War right? If the US doesnt like it the answer to their Iraqi problems are simple......LEAVE

Mainly because more innocents get killed than troops it is problematic. As long as troops are getting killed then they have to be on a war footing and the smoke doesn't get a chance to clear. As far as leaving goes I am of two minds on the issue firstly they should never have gone in to begin with on the other hand now that they have and removed the govt. part of me thinks they should be responsible for helping rebuild. But as we see that is no simple task. The whole thing basically makes me ill.

 

[surenderer]

That is fine if that is your consistent view just don't come bitching when someone you like gets killed because as you say that is life dude.

Well when you murder innocents I dont like you so that wont be a problem

No they have the most heavy weapons definately not all the guns even during the recent weapon buyback it was agreed that every iraqi home should have 1 rifle (usually an AK 47) per male in the household.

I was clear in my statement here(I apologize) what I meant was that the US has all the Heavy Firepower

As far as leaving goes I am of two minds on the issue firstly they should never have gone in to begin with on the other hand now that they have and removed the govt. part of me thinks they should be responsible for helping rebuild

Actually I felt like that at 1st also....I thought "well you broke it so now you fix it" but now after seeing Abu Grahib and things like that link I posted earlier and the lies that lead the US into the War and Haliburton etc......I feel that its time for the US to say goodbye....how do you know what will happen once the US leaves? It seems like a crutch to say "oh things will only get worse" because how can anyone know that? Check out any poll taken there and it will say that the Iraqi's want the US to leave.....I even saw a poll which said 40 somethin percent of them wanted Sadaam back in power So why stay in a country where you arent wanted? As long as the US is in Iraq there wont be any peace for any elected official or any policeman seen as a "sell-out"(which i think is sad because it's probably the only job availiable to help these guys feed their families)

 

[path]

Well whadda ya know there are muslims who agree with what I was trying to say :m:

The radical young cleric has a band of loyal followers
A senior religious leader in Iran has severed ties with radical Iraqi Shia cleric Moqtada Sadr for encouraging his followers to fight US troops.

The Grand Ayatollah wholly blamed the US and British for damage to the shrine, his spokesman said.

But Mr Haeri stressed that direct fighting with US forces was not a correct move.

story

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Any actual links are appreciated

The bloodbath in Fallujah on 28 April - a large Sunni Muslim town 35 miles west of Baghdad which has become one of the centre of opposition to the US-British occupation - has been the subject of intense dispute.

Iraqi witnesses and hospital officials say 17 people were killed and up to 70 injured when US troops from the 82nd Airborne Division fired without provocation on an unarmed crowd of protesters outside a local school, which the army had taken over as a base.

The US military claim its soldiers were fired on by gunmen among the demonstrators, and from rooftops, and replied with "precision fire".

The 18-page findings by Human Rights Watch (HRW) challenges the American explanation, and highlights some crucial failings in their approach to the now increasingly messy occupation of Iraq.

It says its investigators "did not find conclusive evidence of bullet damage on the school where US soldiers were based". That confirms the findings of The Independent whose correspondents also examined the scene; it is in striking contrast to some media reports which described the school as "pocked with bullet holes".

HRW states the absence of such evidence places "into serious question" the Americans' assertion they had come under fire from individuals.

In contrast, the buildings across the street - in front of which the demonstrators were gathered - "had extensive evidence of multi-calibre bullet impacts that were wider and more sustained than would have been caused by the 'precision fire' with which the soldiers maintained they responded, leading to the civilian casualties that day". The report concludes: "Witness testimony and ballistic evidence suggest US troops responded with excessive force to a perceived threat."

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=416478

There you go

After they removed Saddam when did they carpet bomb? Who did they carpet bomb? If they did was there anything that triggered that response or did they just need to get rid of some bomb surplus? Again back it up if you can please, thanks.

Where have I said that they did? I did not, yet from your question I conclude that you tend to think that they did, while taking down Saddam. Wanna deny that??

Where is the sense of justice of the american nation? What are they doing there in the first place? And please don't tell me it is to bring freedom

But you evaded the question. I still expect an answer!!

As regards freedom Al Sistani told his followers that they should thank the americans for freeing them and then ask "when are you leaving?" and the shias are the majority in Iraq.

I do not expect you to understand the intricaties of Sistani. And although everyone is touching in the dark about the man think about this: Do you think that Muqtada a.Sadr could take control of the holy sites if a.Sistani didn't want that to happen?

Btw, on the overall one could say that sistani follows the Shi'a mood and not the other way around. And the Shi'a still remember the aftermath of the second Gulf war. They simply learned their lesson.

I know this is part of the doctrine of your faith but history in other places has shown that there are other better means of dealing with an enemy that has a decided edge over you in firepower.

Oh my faith... Muslims are bad eh? This anti-Islam mindset reminds me of the Lieutenant General William Boykin. Look him up.

Contemplate on this: http://www.lies.com/images/first_four_years.gif

Oh yeah, before I forget, can you show us what historical cases you say proof your point.

Were they going around killing people at random before? To pick up a gun and start shooting does beg return fire are you so blind that you cannot see this, for gods sake Bruce look around.

Can you tell me when I can expect these guys' trial?

http://www.informationclearinghouse...article5365.htm

I am consequent, there are better ways to solve most crisis than to pick up a gun and start shooting. Some times it may be neccasary but not often.

What would be inconsistent would be if I said "killing this person was wrong, but it is fine if you kill that person"

You also said:

Warfare is FLAT OUT the wrong way to resolve our differences.

And now you say it may be necessary.

:m:

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I'll be back

:m:

 

[Preacher_X]

i can totally see the soldier standing there over the dead girl's body, probably with a smirk, saying something like "fuck you" and emptying a whole clip, pausing for a second in the middle
pretty disgusting. probably the same image you have in your head.
but it's simply not what happened

excuses excuses Oth. Israelis just cant admit to anything or take responsibilty. theres always another theory, a mistake etc. and then Jwes bitch about how everyone hates them and makes so many conspiracy theories against them linking Jews to everything evil (US Liberty, 9-11, media conspiracy etc...)

any way like i said nothing new...
GRAPHIC, Man with foot nearly blown off, IDF ignore him, leave him to die

PIC 1
http://www.alkhilafah.info/massacres/palestine/images/A.jpg

PIC 2
http://www.alkhilafah.info/massacres/palestine/images/B.jpg

PIC 3
http://www.alkhilafah.info/massacres/palestine/images/C.jpg

PIC 4
http://www.alkhilafah.info/massacres/palestine/images/D.jpg

PIC 5
http://www.alkhilafah.info/massacres/palestine/images/E.jpg

posing over a dead Palestinian. a souvenier I supose for the IDF soldeirs, something they can show their kids.
http://www.alkhilafah.info/massacres/palestine/images/posedeadbody.jpg

 

[Preacher_X]

looks like the kids pissed his pants

maybe that kids has a bomb

 

[Vlad]

I'm actually excited about the prospect of Palestinain forces mounting some serious attacks against Israel in the near future. The more they do this, the closer the world gets to seeing the obvious truth that Palestine has no hope of reaching a rational settlement with the Jews. Then we can forward to the Jews being given the lattitude to end this feud, the only way it will ever end, by destroying this scummy enemy.

 

[Undecided]

Jews? Are you still this wilingly ignorant?

 

[Vlad]

Undecided, I’m sick of being enlightened by you. I'm still reeling after learning that Kant was a Jew. Please educate someone else.

 

[Undecided]

Vlad you’re not sick of me enlightening you, you are sick of being wrong.

 

[Vlad]

I know. I mean I used to be stupid enough to think that Kant wasn't a Jew haha.

 

[Undecided]

I never said Kant was a Jew, if I did say it, it was a semantical mistake. Obviously he wasn't a Jew, mind showing me the quote though so I can see where I made this obvious err? I mean considering that this is the only ammo you have against me (a syntax mistake) then you are even sadder then I originally envisioned.

 

[Vlad]

lofl, there is endless ammo one could use against you, but what's the point in provoking your reflexive narcissism and denial once again? Your Kant = Jew faux par is nice though because its so obvious that not even your delusion can escape it.

I cant be bothered searching for it, but its in the Palestinian/relocation thread.