Israel, Palestine and the Arab/Israel Conflict
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surenderer
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Kiwi123 said:
Why their kids die...
As long as these kind of parents are glorified and held at their mainstream... give them more and more land-gifts, talk-peace, peace, but no peace.
'nuff said.
Source: The Hartford Courant
Published: February 2, 2004 Author: Mazin Qumsiyeh
For Education and Discussion Only. Not for Commercial Use.
On Jan. 28,(but could have been yesterday or today
) Israeli occupation forces killed eight (some reports said 13) Palestinians in an assault on a neighborhood in the Gaza Strip. Among those killed were three teenagers: Sami Badawi, 16; Akram AbuAjami, 17; and Sameh Toteh, 16. Like many other such assaults, the mainstream media in the United States ignored this event or made cursory mention of it. No mainstream newspaper mentioned names of those killed, let alone described the Israeli assault as terrorism. The next day, a Palestinian suicide bomber killed 10 Israelis. These and other attacks inside Israel have been described in detail in major newspapers. The media have never shied from allowing such labels as "terrorism" in those stories.
The net result is that Israeli lives and deaths become valued while Palestinian lives and deaths are diminished or erased from our conscience.
According to human rights organizations, four times more Palestinian civilians have been killed by Israeli forces as Israeli civilians killed by Palestinian forces. These same organizations (including Amnesty International, the Israeli human rights group B'tselem, and Human Rights Watch) have clearly showed in past reports that Israeli forces do target civilians. State-sponsored terror is an organic part of colonization of native lands. The Israeli colonization program, over five decades, has left 5 million Palestinians as refugees or displaced people and cornered those remaining into ghettos surrounded by high walls and watchtowers.
There are individual acts of Palestinian terrorism, but the news media do not report on the more systematic Israeli terrorism or the reasons for all this violence. More than 530 Palestinian towns and villages have been erased completely in the last 60 years. Residents have been driven out by careful use of massacres (33 between 1947 and 1949, and dozens more since then), intimidation, deprivation, land confiscation and outright expulsions.
In the past couple of years, Israeli occupation forces have demolished more than 5,000 Palestinian homes, rendering more than 30,000 people homeless. This has been done with Caterpillar bulldozers made and paid for by the United States.
A colonial state is slowly finishing the destruction and ethnic cleansing started in 1947, using U.S. tax money. Meanwhile, a few people who have worked as lobbyists and advocates for the Zionist state of Israel are highly influential in the U.S. government (including Deputy Defense Secretary Paul D. Wolfowitz and Richard Perle, a member of the Pentagon's advisory Defense Policy Board). And judging by statements of leading Democratic candidates for the presidential nomination (except Dennis Kucinich and Al Sharpton), not much would be different under a Democratic administration.
The news media intentionally suppress the peaceful and rational voices of millions, including thousands of Jews and dozens of Jewish organizations, calling for an end to U.S. aid to the Israeli apartheid system until Israel agrees to implement international law (including the right of refugees to return to their homes and lands and to be treated equally). History shows that only justice brings peace. Apartheid walls, occupation and oppression cannot impose peace. The sooner we learn this and act on our knowledge, the sooner we will stop sacrificing money and precious lives in protection of racist ideologies of separation and control of other people.
Why is this?..Salaam
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Thats only a picture, doesn't say much, the kid could have a play in school and in the play hes supposed to be a suicide bomber, maybe its halloween ( some Muslim kids celebrate Halloween ) or maybe its for a protest, parents like to dress up their children like militants when they have protests.
Media Myth : "5 Arab armies tried to wipe out Israel upon its creation in 1948"
Media myths: "5 Arab armies tried to wipe out Israel upon its creation in 1948"
by The Arab Media Watch
News organisations frequently make a simple factual error regarding the conduct of the 1948 war - that the day after the state of Israel was declared, 5 Arab armies - from Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and Iraq - immediately invaded Israel with the aim of wiping it out.
This is inaccurate. The Lebanese army and the Arab Legion (that is, the Transjordanian army) never entered or invaded Israel, if "Israel" is to be understood as the region allocated for the Jewish state in the 1947 UN Partition Plan.
The Lebanese army remained in the Upper Galilee (granted to the Arab entity in the Partition Plan).
The Arab Legion did not move out of the area that became the West Bank, in accordance with an agreement made between King Abdullah and the Jewish Agency in November 1947 to partition Palestine between them (and most convincingly elaborated in Israeli historian Avi Shlaim's writings).
The armies of Iraq and Syria made small incursions into the Lower Galilee, up to Belvoir and Denganya respectively.
Egypt pushed north up to Isdud and across to the Arab-allocated district at Hebron. These were the only armies to enter ("invade") the area allocated to Israel.
Furthermore, the aim of the Arab armies was not to wipe out Israel but to stop its aggression against the Palestinians. Jewish forces had already commenced military operations in Palestine before the end of the British mandate, committing massacres such as that at the undefended village of Deir Yassin.
Hence, by the time the Arab states intervened (after the departure of British troops from Palestine on May 15, 1948), Jewish forces had occupied not only most of the area allotted to the Jewish state by the UN partition resolution, but also most of the area allotted to the Arab state as well, including several Arab towns and hundreds of Arab villages. This resulted in over 250,000 Palestinians becoming refugees.
The absence of a resolve on the part of the Arab states to launch a war against the Jews in Palestine is confirmed by John Bagot Glubb, British commander of the Arab Legion of Transjordan. He declared that on the day before the fighting began in Palestine, Arab League Secretary-General Azzam Pasha admitted to him that they had never believed that the issue would come to fighting. "We believed that the solution would be political," he said.
Strictly speaking, therefore, the Arab states did not launch a war against Israel, but undertook an armed intervention which was both lawful and justified.
Azzam's statement was reflected in the Arab states' lack of preparedness, their lack of a central command, and the relatively small number of troops mobilised (a total of 20,000).
In contrast, the Jews had been drawing military plans to occupy Palestine since 1945, and as Israel proceeded with a total mobilisation, it was able to field around 90,000 fully trained men.
The disparity in troop strength disproves any suggestion that they launched an all-out offensive against Israel in 1948.
Furthermore, Israel violated several times a truce called by the UN Security Council which came into force on July 18, 1948. On October 15, Israel launched a general offensive against the Egyptians on the southern front and made substantial territorial gains, capturing Beersheba on October 21, Bait Hanoun on October 22 and Bait Jibrin soon afterwards.
The parties accepted a ceasefire with effect from October 22, but on October 31 Israel defied a warning by the UN Chief of Staff and launched an attack on the Lebanese front and occupied 15 villages situated within Lebanese territory.
Also, in November, Israel moved forward in the Negev in the direction of the Gulf of Aqaba.
On December 22, Israel launched another offensive in the south, occupied the area of Auja and made substantial penetration into the Sinai.
On March 10, 1949, in breach of its Armistice Agreement with Egypt, Israel again moved further south until it reached the Gulf of Aqaba and occupied the Palestine Police post of Umm Rashrash, which it afterwards named Eilat.
In addition to seizing Arab territories in breach of the Armistice Agreements, Israel gradually seized the demilitarised zones that were set up by those agreements between it and Egypt and Syria.
Such seizures were carried out by Israel after the dates of the Armistice Agreements, despite the fact that the territorial situation was frozen by the Tripartite Declaration issued by the UK, France and the US on May 25, 1950, which proclaimed that they would oppose any violations of frontiers or armistice lines between Israel and the Arab states.
Thus, although the UN allotted just over half of Palestine for a Jewish state, the war of 1948 resulted in Israel occupying 78% of Palestine and creating some 750,000 Palestinian refugees. Israel seized the remaining 22% in 1967.
Commander Hutchinson of the UN Armistice Staff observed: "It was a short war marked by outside intervention, Arab disunity and and unlimited aid to Israel from the West, in addition to timely and substantial shipments of arms from behind the Iron curtain... This aid, sent in against the orders of the United Nations, was sufficient to turn the tide and to grant Israel considerable land gains."
Conversely, the Arab states received no military assistance from anyone.
Thus, it can hardly be claimed that the war of 1948 was a defensive one for Israel against powerful Arab armies intent on its destruction.
Media myths: "5 Arab armies tried to wipe out Israel upon its creation in 1948"
Media myths: "5 Arab armies tried to wipe out Israel upon its creation in 1948"
by The Arab Media Watch
News organisations frequently make a simple factual error regarding the conduct of the 1948 war - that the day after the state of Israel was declared, 5 Arab armies - from Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and Iraq - immediately invaded Israel with the aim of wiping it out.
This is inaccurate. The Lebanese army and the Arab Legion (that is, the Transjordanian army) never entered or invaded Israel, if "Israel" is to be understood as the region allocated for the Jewish state in the 1947 UN Partition Plan.
The Lebanese army remained in the Upper Galilee (granted to the Arab entity in the Partition Plan).
The Arab Legion did not move out of the area that became the West Bank, in accordance with an agreement made between King Abdullah and the Jewish Agency in November 1947 to partition Palestine between them (and most convincingly elaborated in Israeli historian Avi Shlaim's writings).
The armies of Iraq and Syria made small incursions into the Lower Galilee, up to Belvoir and Denganya respectively.
Egypt pushed north up to Isdud and across to the Arab-allocated district at Hebron. These were the only armies to enter ("invade") the area allocated to Israel.
Furthermore, the aim of the Arab armies was not to wipe out Israel but to stop its aggression against the Palestinians. Jewish forces had already commenced military operations in Palestine before the end of the British mandate, committing massacres such as that at the undefended village of Deir Yassin.
Hence, by the time the Arab states intervened (after the departure of British troops from Palestine on May 15, 1948), Jewish forces had occupied not only most of the area allotted to the Jewish state by the UN partition resolution, but also most of the area allotted to the Arab state as well, including several Arab towns and hundreds of Arab villages. This resulted in over 250,000 Palestinians becoming refugees.
The absence of a resolve on the part of the Arab states to launch a war against the Jews in Palestine is confirmed by John Bagot Glubb, British commander of the Arab Legion of Transjordan. He declared that on the day before the fighting began in Palestine, Arab League Secretary-General Azzam Pasha admitted to him that they had never believed that the issue would come to fighting. "We believed that the solution would be political," he said.
Strictly speaking, therefore, the Arab states did not launch a war against Israel, but undertook an armed intervention which was both lawful and justified.
Azzam's statement was reflected in the Arab states' lack of preparedness, their lack of a central command, and the relatively small number of troops mobilised (a total of 20,000).
In contrast, the Jews had been drawing military plans to occupy Palestine since 1945, and as Israel proceeded with a total mobilisation, it was able to field around 90,000 fully trained men.
The disparity in troop strength disproves any suggestion that they launched an all-out offensive against Israel in 1948.
Furthermore, Israel violated several times a truce called by the UN Security Council which came into force on July 18, 1948. On October 15, Israel launched a general offensive against the Egyptians on the southern front and made substantial territorial gains, capturing Beersheba on October 21, Bait Hanoun on October 22 and Bait Jibrin soon afterwards.
The parties accepted a ceasefire with effect from October 22, but on October 31 Israel defied a warning by the UN Chief of Staff and launched an attack on the Lebanese front and occupied 15 villages situated within Lebanese territory.
Also, in November, Israel moved forward in the Negev in the direction of the Gulf of Aqaba.
On December 22, Israel launched another offensive in the south, occupied the area of Auja and made substantial penetration into the Sinai.
On March 10, 1949, in breach of its Armistice Agreement with Egypt, Israel again moved further south until it reached the Gulf of Aqaba and occupied the Palestine Police post of Umm Rashrash, which it afterwards named Eilat.
In addition to seizing Arab territories in breach of the Armistice Agreements, Israel gradually seized the demilitarised zones that were set up by those agreements between it and Egypt and Syria.
Such seizures were carried out by Israel after the dates of the Armistice Agreements, despite the fact that the territorial situation was frozen by the Tripartite Declaration issued by the UK, France and the US on May 25, 1950, which proclaimed that they would oppose any violations of frontiers or armistice lines between Israel and the Arab states.
Thus, although the UN allotted just over half of Palestine for a Jewish state, the war of 1948 resulted in Israel occupying 78% of Palestine and creating some 750,000 Palestinian refugees. Israel seized the remaining 22% in 1967.
Commander Hutchinson of the UN Armistice Staff observed: "It was a short war marked by outside intervention, Arab disunity and and unlimited aid to Israel from the West, in addition to timely and substantial shipments of arms from behind the Iron curtain... This aid, sent in against the orders of the United Nations, was sufficient to turn the tide and to grant Israel considerable land gains."
Conversely, the Arab states received no military assistance from anyone.
Thus, it can hardly be claimed that the war of 1948 was a defensive one for Israel against powerful Arab armies intent on its destruction.
Media myths: "5 Arab armies tried to wipe out Israel upon its creation in 1948"
Yuck, 'ccupation' crap...Booooring, however, Kiwi though did rightfully put the blame where it belongs = vicious moms of palestine.surenderer said:Source: The Hartford Courant
Published: February 2, 2004 Author: Mazin Qumsiyeh
For Education and Discussion Only. Not for Commercial Use.
On Jan. 28,(but could have been yesterday or today
surenderer
Registered Senior Member
DaneMark said:
Only booring to those who dont care
Preacher_X
Registered Senior Member
please get your facts right, as of yet there has NEVER been a SINGLE child suicide bomber. thats all Zionist bullshit propaganda.
the youngest Pal suicide bomber was 16 years old Palastinian. Israeli first said he was 11 years old, then it was revealed they lied and he was 14 and then it was later revealred they lied again and he was 16.
and as for th picture, Kiwi and Danmark have on numerous occasions said the pics i have posted are fake (without supplying evidence) even though its total bullshit as their are Jewish soldiers in the pics with tanks, body armour, advanced and expensive weapons that only milatry personaly can get hold of etc. so i am going to say the same thing to you. i have no reason to believe these phots are true or even shoit in Israel/Palastine. like i said before normally i wouldnt deny phots by saying there fake but you and your zionist friends have started this.
also Amnesty Internationals reports critisies Israel for repeated killing of children and reckless and purposeful unprovoked shooting in resedential areas and also firing randomly when there was no exchange of fire by Palastinians or no provoking. it also says "No judicial investigation is known to have been carried out into any of the killings of children by members of the IDF [Israel Defence Forces] in the occupied territories, even in cases where Israeli government officials have stated publicly that investigations would be carried out." None of the Israeli soldiers responsible for these crimes is known to have been brought to justice"
the youngest Pal suicide bomber was 16 years old Palastinian. Israeli first said he was 11 years old, then it was revealed they lied and he was 14 and then it was later revealred they lied again and he was 16.
and as for th picture, Kiwi and Danmark have on numerous occasions said the pics i have posted are fake (without supplying evidence) even though its total bullshit as their are Jewish soldiers in the pics with tanks, body armour, advanced and expensive weapons that only milatry personaly can get hold of etc. so i am going to say the same thing to you. i have no reason to believe these phots are true or even shoit in Israel/Palastine. like i said before normally i wouldnt deny phots by saying there fake but you and your zionist friends have started this.
also Amnesty Internationals reports critisies Israel for repeated killing of children and reckless and purposeful unprovoked shooting in resedential areas and also firing randomly when there was no exchange of fire by Palastinians or no provoking. it also says "No judicial investigation is known to have been carried out into any of the killings of children by members of the IDF [Israel Defence Forces] in the occupied territories, even in cases where Israeli government officials have stated publicly that investigations would be carried out." None of the Israeli soldiers responsible for these crimes is known to have been brought to justice"
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Preacher_X
Registered Senior Member
yes obviously that is true, but try telling that to a Zionist or to a dumb american
Preacher_X
Registered Senior Member
yes its all true, the common myth is made by crafty zionists who easily twist things. if only Arabs were as smart
Preacher_X
Registered Senior Member
Balanced said:
many Jewish bankers financially aided germanys enemies and also created smaller factions that caused problems in Germany. also Germany was in a crisis after the war and Jews capitolised on this and took over a lot of buisnesses and jobs. also the ones who did not actually help Germanys enemies didnt do much to help Germany either.
hiter blamed a lot of problems on Jews.
and yes you are right Danemark, im simply replying to Otheadps post
Preacher_X
Registered Senior Member
Balanced said:
and there are very few people in Israel who want peace aswell. as JEWS will testify to being kicked out of Israel by other Jews for being to moderate.
also Israel obviously does not want peace and as its action are showing and is goig for a land grab so it can get as much as possible before the peace process. the peace process Israel is doing so far is to keep America faithful and not because it wants to.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2935916.stm
Again the only way you can say that the land doesn’t belong to the Arabs is if that land was completely and utterly deserted btwn 60AD and 1880, we know that’s BS so the land is theirs. The population well before the first Zionist immigrant was as follows:
Palestine, population:
1820- 332,000
1845- Numbers of Jews in Palestine was 12,000 (Jews does not connotate white Europeans, nor Zionism)
1870- 429,000
Then in 1880 the first waves of Zionist immigration happened.
By 1922 the population was 755,000 (670,000 Palestinian, 85,000 Zionist)
If we are going to bar the Palestinians their state because some immigrated to the country, yet grant Israel statehood when over 90% of the Jews in Israel immigrated is nonsense. Even today more Pals. are more tied to that land any the vast majority of Zionists. Zionists never exceeded 31% of the population (1947) of the area yet given 50% of the land…that’s a crime. There is no point in arguing this, that article is an interesting read, but one that doesn’t change the fact that Arabs have always lived on that land, Germanic Jews haven’t.
Palestine, population:
1820- 332,000
1845- Numbers of Jews in Palestine was 12,000 (Jews does not connotate white Europeans, nor Zionism)
1870- 429,000
Then in 1880 the first waves of Zionist immigration happened.
By 1922 the population was 755,000 (670,000 Palestinian, 85,000 Zionist)
If we are going to bar the Palestinians their state because some immigrated to the country, yet grant Israel statehood when over 90% of the Jews in Israel immigrated is nonsense. Even today more Pals. are more tied to that land any the vast majority of Zionists. Zionists never exceeded 31% of the population (1947) of the area yet given 50% of the land…that’s a crime. There is no point in arguing this, that article is an interesting read, but one that doesn’t change the fact that Arabs have always lived on that land, Germanic Jews haven’t.
I know why it’s a myth, because it was only 4 countries directly attacking the newly independent Israel, not 5! It was also many more armies then 5.
I'm wondering if I should move this to history subforum, this is a historical subject, but the idea of lies in history of this magnitude are very provocative, I guess next we will be seeing “the Germens did not start WW2 it was the other way around, and the concentrations camps forget those, all media lies”
I'm wondering if I should move this to history subforum, this is a historical subject, but the idea of lies in history of this magnitude are very provocative, I guess next we will be seeing “the Germens did not start WW2 it was the other way around, and the concentrations camps forget those, all media lies”
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First of all 50% of Israelis are with Labour, the left...Preacher_X said:and there are very few people in Israel who want peace aswell.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2935916.stm
Second, Then again even the right in Israel wants peace, and Sharon's sacrifice of land, (even taking into account Hamas butchers' celebration,) is only admiring.
Third, the issue was not about 'peace' but about the vast population's backing Genocide on babies, that is only on the Arab side.
Undecided, what you say is generally true to a degree. If the various wars never happened then the Arabs native to Palestine have a right to the opportunity to buy land and participate in a representative government, and also to decide who to let immigrate into their country. I agree with this, it is a worthy goal to work towards, but it is also true that Arab nationalism has been a threat to the lives of jews both native and recently immigrated. This issue did not arise in a vacuum. People have a right to protect themselves, and in this case, establishing a Jewish state was the only way to do it.
If the various wars never happened then the Arabs native to Palestine have a right to the opportunity to buy land and participate in a representative government, and also to decide who to let immigrate into their country.
That cannot be an argument anymore Israel and Palestine in principle accept each others existence as states today. They deserve their right to a state, with the borders that are from the 1967 Green Line, which Israel has extra judiciously violated with illegal settlements and building of the wall. The burden has shifted from the Pals to Israel, I’ve always maintained that if Israel didn’t illegally seize the W.Bank and Gaza Israel would be morally much better off. But the situation in the region is a direct result of the 1967 war, and the Israeli actions afterwards. Also remember that Palestine never invaded Israel, she couldn’t have it was her neighbors that did so.
but it is also true that Arab nationalism has been a threat to the lives of jews both native and recently immigrated.
To Zionists yes, Arab nationalism is blind to religion it has to be its secular. So please stop abusing the term Jew. Zionism has been dangerous not only to Arabs but the whole world because it threw out equilibrium internationally as it was supposed to. I don’t hold either side with much regard, so again I reaffirm my stance that one state solution is the only solution. Especially for Israel recent indications show that Israel will stop being the Zionist state in 15 years time.
So I expect the Arab holocaust, or mass deportations to happen within that time frame.
People have a right to protect themselves, and in this case, establishing a Jewish state was the only way to do it.
Visa Versa, the only way it is perceived to protect the Arabs is to establish an Arab state as well. The difference is that the Arabs have much more a right to defend what is morally theirs.
That cannot be an argument anymore Israel and Palestine in principle accept each others existence as states today. They deserve their right to a state, with the borders that are from the 1967 Green Line, which Israel has extra judiciously violated with illegal settlements and building of the wall. The burden has shifted from the Pals to Israel, I’ve always maintained that if Israel didn’t illegally seize the W.Bank and Gaza Israel would be morally much better off. But the situation in the region is a direct result of the 1967 war, and the Israeli actions afterwards. Also remember that Palestine never invaded Israel, she couldn’t have it was her neighbors that did so.
but it is also true that Arab nationalism has been a threat to the lives of jews both native and recently immigrated.
To Zionists yes, Arab nationalism is blind to religion it has to be its secular. So please stop abusing the term Jew. Zionism has been dangerous not only to Arabs but the whole world because it threw out equilibrium internationally as it was supposed to. I don’t hold either side with much regard, so again I reaffirm my stance that one state solution is the only solution. Especially for Israel recent indications show that Israel will stop being the Zionist state in 15 years time.
So I expect the Arab holocaust, or mass deportations to happen within that time frame.
People have a right to protect themselves, and in this case, establishing a Jewish state was the only way to do it.
Visa Versa, the only way it is perceived to protect the Arabs is to establish an Arab state as well. The difference is that the Arabs have much more a right to defend what is morally theirs.
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