Israel, Palestine and the Arab/Israel Conflict
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Gandhi's grandson to kick off unarmed Palestinian campaign
Gandhi's grandson to kick off unarmed Palestinian campaign
By Amira Hass, Haaretz Correspondent
The grandson of former Indian leader Mahatma Gandhi, Arun Gandhi, is to kick off a Palestinian campaign for an unarmed, popular struggle against the Israeli occupation.
The campaign is being organized by a group of Palestinian social and political activists in Ramallah, that was formed after a ruling of the International Court of Justice in The Hague against the separation fence and Israel's occupation in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. The group's members are anti-fence activists, members of non-government organizations for water and agriculture development, and central Fatah activists, headed by minister without portfolio and Fatah activist Kadura Fares.
Gandhi, head of the M.K. Gandhi Institute for Nonviolence in the United States, will be the star speaker in three mass rallies planned in Ramallah, Abu Dis and Bethlehem on August 26. Gandhi said he intends "to promote the philosophy of nonviolence, the approach that nonviolence is the only venue that can solve our problems."
The Ramallah group resumed it ties with Palestinians for Peace and Democracy in the U.S., and reportedly consists of 400 volunteers. The group's leader, Mohammed Al Atar, said they felt "an urgency to find another way to resist occupation."
The link between Al Atar and the Ramallah group was Terry Boulata of East Jerusalem, the principal of a private school in Abu Dis and a major anti-fence activist. The fence separates her home from her place of work and from her husband's family. Boulata said the Hague decision and Israel's High Court ruling to change the fence route strengthens the position of the proponents of an unarmed struggle. Like Al Atar, she said: "The struggle is our right, but we must be creative."
The two then invited Gandhi in order to learn creative ways of fighting against the occupation.
In a telephone call from the United States, Gandhi said he is coming both to learn and to teach his philosophy. "I understand that many bad things happened 55 years ago, but the attempt to get justice by revenge accomplishes nothing," he said. He said he learned that from his grandfather when he was just a boy, and thought of revenge in retaliation to the apartheid and humiliation he felt in South Africa, where he was born in 1934. Gandhi said his father spent 15 years in jail because he refused to obey the apartheid laws.
It is difficult to tell how the Palestinians will relate to Gandhi's tendency to explain violent conflicts by reducing them to private, inter-personal relations. "I've dedicated my life to explain to people how damaging prejudices can be, and how to form better relations. That is the basis of non-violence. Relations must be based on love, understanding and honor, not on negative foundations," he said.
"I will tell the Palestinians that it is their responsibility to change. If the Israelis do not want to listen, it does not mean we cannot act."
Gandhi intends to tell the Palestinians that the essence of violence is that each side justifies it by saying the other side started. "The question is who is more intelligent (to stop using violence) and who has more power to change. I think the Palestinians have a chance to be more intelligent and not act like the Israelis."
The organizers intend to bring thousands to the rallies and record the talks with Gandhi. The events will cost about $200,000, and contributions have arrived from Switzerland and Norway. It is uncertain how much Gandhi can contribute to the Palestinian struggle, but the invitation indicates a considerable part of the Palestinian public is seeking popular, non-violent ways to struggle. "We want to organize a Palestinian peace camp to explain to Israel and the world that our freedom is the key to peace," Boulata said.
[Haaretz Daily]
Gandhi's grandson to kick off unarmed Palestinian campaign
By Amira Hass, Haaretz Correspondent
The grandson of former Indian leader Mahatma Gandhi, Arun Gandhi, is to kick off a Palestinian campaign for an unarmed, popular struggle against the Israeli occupation.
The campaign is being organized by a group of Palestinian social and political activists in Ramallah, that was formed after a ruling of the International Court of Justice in The Hague against the separation fence and Israel's occupation in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. The group's members are anti-fence activists, members of non-government organizations for water and agriculture development, and central Fatah activists, headed by minister without portfolio and Fatah activist Kadura Fares.
Gandhi, head of the M.K. Gandhi Institute for Nonviolence in the United States, will be the star speaker in three mass rallies planned in Ramallah, Abu Dis and Bethlehem on August 26. Gandhi said he intends "to promote the philosophy of nonviolence, the approach that nonviolence is the only venue that can solve our problems."
The Ramallah group resumed it ties with Palestinians for Peace and Democracy in the U.S., and reportedly consists of 400 volunteers. The group's leader, Mohammed Al Atar, said they felt "an urgency to find another way to resist occupation."
The link between Al Atar and the Ramallah group was Terry Boulata of East Jerusalem, the principal of a private school in Abu Dis and a major anti-fence activist. The fence separates her home from her place of work and from her husband's family. Boulata said the Hague decision and Israel's High Court ruling to change the fence route strengthens the position of the proponents of an unarmed struggle. Like Al Atar, she said: "The struggle is our right, but we must be creative."
The two then invited Gandhi in order to learn creative ways of fighting against the occupation.
In a telephone call from the United States, Gandhi said he is coming both to learn and to teach his philosophy. "I understand that many bad things happened 55 years ago, but the attempt to get justice by revenge accomplishes nothing," he said. He said he learned that from his grandfather when he was just a boy, and thought of revenge in retaliation to the apartheid and humiliation he felt in South Africa, where he was born in 1934. Gandhi said his father spent 15 years in jail because he refused to obey the apartheid laws.
It is difficult to tell how the Palestinians will relate to Gandhi's tendency to explain violent conflicts by reducing them to private, inter-personal relations. "I've dedicated my life to explain to people how damaging prejudices can be, and how to form better relations. That is the basis of non-violence. Relations must be based on love, understanding and honor, not on negative foundations," he said.
"I will tell the Palestinians that it is their responsibility to change. If the Israelis do not want to listen, it does not mean we cannot act."
Gandhi intends to tell the Palestinians that the essence of violence is that each side justifies it by saying the other side started. "The question is who is more intelligent (to stop using violence) and who has more power to change. I think the Palestinians have a chance to be more intelligent and not act like the Israelis."
The organizers intend to bring thousands to the rallies and record the talks with Gandhi. The events will cost about $200,000, and contributions have arrived from Switzerland and Norway. It is uncertain how much Gandhi can contribute to the Palestinian struggle, but the invitation indicates a considerable part of the Palestinian public is seeking popular, non-violent ways to struggle. "We want to organize a Palestinian peace camp to explain to Israel and the world that our freedom is the key to peace," Boulata said.
[Haaretz Daily]
Any off topic post will and have been deleted.
sorry lets all stick to topic now. I think this was Kiwi123 attempting to show how propaganda over demonizes the israelis, a direct attack on a post M16 did in another thread... perhaps its best I merge that, where was it?
sorry lets all stick to topic now. I think this was Kiwi123 attempting to show how propaganda over demonizes the israelis, a direct attack on a post M16 did in another thread... perhaps its best I merge that, where was it?
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Israel is and has been demonized by the media for a long time now.
i've always known that, i've always had proof... however, after watching this movie a few days ago it hit me how real this whole thing is.... how real the bias is, how real the bad intentions are, how effective and instrumental the media is in constructing people's views, how real the damage is.. and most of all its extent.
"Israel" is not an abstract idea or some faceless creature. it's people... mothers and fathers, soldiers and kids...
when Israel is being demonized in the news, people go nuts
and there are victims
in the meantime, the lies keep going, and the deity (a.k.a. "real" people) called "Palestinians" from a fictitious country called "Palestine" continue with their lies,
and the contaminated pool of jurists keep swallowing it whole...
i've always known that, i've always had proof... however, after watching this movie a few days ago it hit me how real this whole thing is.... how real the bias is, how real the bad intentions are, how effective and instrumental the media is in constructing people's views, how real the damage is.. and most of all its extent.
"Israel" is not an abstract idea or some faceless creature. it's people... mothers and fathers, soldiers and kids...
when Israel is being demonized in the news, people go nuts
and there are victims
in the meantime, the lies keep going, and the deity (a.k.a. "real" people) called "Palestinians" from a fictitious country called "Palestine" continue with their lies,
and the contaminated pool of jurists keep swallowing it whole...
M-16 said:The fact that there are some friendly soldiers doesn't mean that all of them are. There has been a couple cases of IDF soldiers helping out Palestinians.
Where they giving out doghnuts when they did this to a Palestinian kid at a checkpoint?
M-16 said:
M-16 said:
Its called a "hinta", considerd in fashion for younge teenagers and older in Israel lately, Its kinda like a sticker, looking quite crude. Mostly with lettering or the israeli star of david. Anyway, it couldnt have been a scar since you saw no inflamashion of the skin or redness, so it wasnt a scab.
Look another victim of the "Good" Israelis, i bet that his new tatoo also came with free doughnuts,
About the Picture
I found it in a Israeli link : http://www.betselem.org.il/English
About the Picture
I found it in a Israeli link : http://www.betselem.org.il/English
M-16 said:Look another victim of the "Good" Israelis, i bet that his new tatoo also came with free doughnuts,
About the Picture
I found it in a Israeli link : http://www.betselem.org.il/English
I served a few months near shhem in checkpost "avtashim" (guard duty), one of the most boring experiences in my life. Never have I witnessed any agression more than pushes or harsh words in extreme, but it was a relatively quiet sector at the time (2001), so im pretty sceptical about this picture.
I have no idea about the last link you sent me, it might be anything. Still, even if I get to the bottom of this, you will believe what you want to, so it doesnt really matter. Your'e mind was made up years ago.
Oth how the hell do you expect people to give two shits about Israel when you say idiocy like this:
in the meantime, the lies keep going, and the deity (a.k.a. "real" people) called "Palestinians" from a fictitious country called "Palestine" continue with their lies,
I am reading a book on Palestine and I can tell you their existence of a people began before the start of the Aliyah into Israel in 1881:
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=654611#post654611
I suggest you start reading books not propaganda it goes a long way, it really does. Until you Zionist Israeli’s can understand that there are actual people living in Palestine, until you admit that there is racism against Arabs in Israel, and Apartheid, until you realize that what you are doing is not only illegal but unethical I along with the world have very little compassion for you or your Zionist State. Until you recognize your racism, don’t expect me to care about this:
"Israel" is not an abstract idea or some faceless creature. it's people... mothers and fathers, soldiers and kids…when Israel is being demonized in the news, people go nuts
If you can’t say the same thing about the Palestinians, its really unfortunate that Jews are suffering for the sins of Zionists…
in the meantime, the lies keep going, and the deity (a.k.a. "real" people) called "Palestinians" from a fictitious country called "Palestine" continue with their lies,
I am reading a book on Palestine and I can tell you their existence of a people began before the start of the Aliyah into Israel in 1881:
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=654611#post654611
I suggest you start reading books not propaganda it goes a long way, it really does. Until you Zionist Israeli’s can understand that there are actual people living in Palestine, until you admit that there is racism against Arabs in Israel, and Apartheid, until you realize that what you are doing is not only illegal but unethical I along with the world have very little compassion for you or your Zionist State. Until you recognize your racism, don’t expect me to care about this:
"Israel" is not an abstract idea or some faceless creature. it's people... mothers and fathers, soldiers and kids…when Israel is being demonized in the news, people go nuts
If you can’t say the same thing about the Palestinians, its really unfortunate that Jews are suffering for the sins of Zionists…
Actually the Palestinians are mostly Semites (like the Jews). This is a war between religions, not race. Of course people on both sides like to portray the other as sub-human. I think the problem here is over generalization there are good, kind, pacifistic Israelis and good, kind, pacifistic Palestinians… and then there are the evil conservative Israelis and evil fundamentalist Palestinians.
This is a war between religions, not race.
not really. it's not about religion, and not about ethnicity. it's mostly about nationality.
we have over 1 million Muslims and Arabs living in Israel. they are good faithful citizens (most) and are part of the state.
they serve on the police force, they serve in the army (volunteer...not drafted), they are in the government... i don't know how you can argue it's about religion.
Hamas and co. would like to make it about religion and sometimes ethnicity which is why they are acting as if it is, and are trying to turn it into such a conflict... but it's not, and as hard as it is, the Israeli government will not turn it into a religious/ethnic conflict.
leave it to the media to tell all about it though
not really. it's not about religion, and not about ethnicity. it's mostly about nationality.
we have over 1 million Muslims and Arabs living in Israel. they are good faithful citizens (most) and are part of the state.
they serve on the police force, they serve in the army (volunteer...not drafted), they are in the government... i don't know how you can argue it's about religion.
Hamas and co. would like to make it about religion and sometimes ethnicity which is why they are acting as if it is, and are trying to turn it into such a conflict... but it's not, and as hard as it is, the Israeli government will not turn it into a religious/ethnic conflict.
leave it to the media to tell all about it though
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Well I'm sorry but Muslim fundamentalist the world over hate you.
not really. it's not about religion, and not about ethnicity. it's mostly about nationality.
BINGO! Oth said it; this is a war of two nationalities that really aren’t that real. Although the Pals have the historical, racial, and cultural aspects of a nation. Zionist’s have well…not much really they would have settled for Uganda or Argentina if they didn’t get Palestine so really their tie is not so much with the land. What bonds Zionists together is their dream to be treated like a Gentile state, and the way to do that is reject what it is to be a Jew.
they are good faithful citizens (most) and are part of the state.
Just a synch of the racism in Israel for you…
they serve on the police force, they serve in the army (volunteer...not drafted), they are in the government... i don't know how you can argue it's about religion.
I think you are talking about the Druze…
the Israeli government will not turn it into a religious/ethnic conflict.
It already has by apartheid policies…
BINGO! Oth said it; this is a war of two nationalities that really aren’t that real. Although the Pals have the historical, racial, and cultural aspects of a nation. Zionist’s have well…not much really they would have settled for Uganda or Argentina if they didn’t get Palestine so really their tie is not so much with the land. What bonds Zionists together is their dream to be treated like a Gentile state, and the way to do that is reject what it is to be a Jew.
they are good faithful citizens (most) and are part of the state.
Just a synch of the racism in Israel for you…
they serve on the police force, they serve in the army (volunteer...not drafted), they are in the government... i don't know how you can argue it's about religion.
I think you are talking about the Druze…
the Israeli government will not turn it into a religious/ethnic conflict.
It already has by apartheid policies…
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