Israel, Palestine and the Arab/Israel Conflict

[Preacher_X]

The Bastards didn't even give us....

Israel for what it is:


They didn't even give us two minutes to leave!!:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1231056,00.html


(IMAGE)Israelis faking it, get caught on tape:
http://alsaher.com/boycott/images/crime.jpg

http://www.alkhilafah.info/massacres/palestine/index2.htm

Israelis soldiers admit: "throwing grenades on children for amusement and watching palastian property being destroyed to stop boerdem:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&e=1&u=/ap/israel_soldiers__regrets


(IMAGE) This is why Israeli soldiers refuse to let foreign bodies and the UN to come and monitor their milatry actions:
http://alsaher.com/boycott/images/arrestboy.jpg
http://alsaher.com/boycott/images/dead.bmp


the Israeli war crime gallery:

http://alsaher.com/boycott/crimesgallery.htm

SOME FACTS ABOUT THE CHILDREN OF PAlESTINE:​

- 94.6 percent of children have seen funerals

- 83.2 percent have witnessed gunfire

- 66.9 percent have seen non-family members injured or killed; 62 percent of
them have seen the injury or death of a family member.

- 36 percent of children have been tear-gassed.

- In such a situation, 32 percent of children have experienced post traumatic
stress, and 33 percent are suffering from symptoms of shock like nightmares,
extreme anxiety and bed-wetting.

since 2001:

- 910 Palastinian children have been killed by Israelis

- 9,500 Palastinian children have been seriously injured by Israeli forces

- 2,000 children are being held captive by Israeli forces and remember Israel is the only country in the world with LEAGALISED TORTURE

who is the terrorist here?:
http://alsaher.com/boycott/images/pointing.bmp

 

[spuriousmonkey]

and this is not a propaganda thread because you raise which discussion point?

 

[spidergoat]

I have trouble having much sympathy for Palestinians that strap bombs on their own children and blow up innocent people. They have no cause to complain about human rights.

 

[Hathor]

you do not believe that, on occasion, the ends do justify the means?
that, a well placed and strapped, palestinian kid could wrought an upheavel of such magnitude, that it results in a re-eval of israeli tactics?

or, specificity aside, the concept evaluated abstractly as a viable method of political action?

i believe in it. deperate circumstances require desperate measures.
survivors could be stabbed. then sawed.

state sponsored terrorism, as evinced by the kind practised by the usa and zion require a response by any means necessary!

*granma? wanna volunteer?

 

[Preacher_X]

oh my God what bullshit by everybody.

YOU ARE ALL victims of ZIONIST propaganda!!!.

look up the history of child suicide bombers... there are 0!!!!!

but people think that there a child suicide bombers and that is complete bullshit, it is due to zionist propaganda.

hitler says "spread a lie enough time, it becomes reailty"

well i guess its working, Zionist news dont actually say there are child suicide bombers they just say things that may lead you to think that and will show you pics of kids with guns and shit.

but look it up... THERE ARE NO CHILD SUICIDE BOMBERS... EVER!!!!

the only ever case of a child suicide bomber was that of Husam Abdullah. first Israel said he was 10, then they later said he was 14 and then finally it was revealed he was 16. many journalists are suspicious about this case though and say it could be a set up, as there are doubts to how the news crew came straight away at the (sealed) checkpoint and during interviewing he stated wrong and sterotypical views on Jihad and its rewards. also it comes right at the time Israel was coming under heavy critiscim for the deaths of infants in various incidents in raffah.

Hamas and Islamic Jihad all have strict policies against using children in atatcks.

 

[Preacher_X]

ok so you know now that child suicide bombers dont exsist.

but anyway, we all know that children are influenced by their enviroment and TV etc. so how influenced do you think palastinian kids are?


how will this girl feel about Israel after they do this to her brother?
http://alsaher.com/boycott/images/bilalramadan.jpg


how do you think this kid, who is looking at his house being demolished is gonna feel about Israel?
http://alsaher.com/boycott/images/hedm.jpg


how is this kids gonna be affected by having to go through this every day?
http://alsaher.com/boycott/images/pointing.bmp

what about this 4 month year old baby KILLED by Israelis? what if this was YOUR baby brother?

THE BRUTAL KILLING OF BABY EMAH HEJO, dear Americans, have you any idea where your tax money goes to?

AND ONCE AGAIN MAY I REMIND YOU

- 94.6 percent of children have seen funerals

- 83.2 percent have witnessed gunfire

- 66.9 percent have seen non-family members injured or killed;

62 percent of them have seen the injury or death of a family member.

- 36 percent of children have been tear-gassed.

- In such a situation, 32 percent of children have experienced post traumatic
stress, and 33 percent are suffering from symptoms of shock like nightmares,
extreme anxiety and bed-wetting.

please also study (use Google or read a book) what Post traumatic stress is and how badly it affects kids.

so we all now how kids are affected by TV but what a about all of theis in REAL LIFE - EVERY SINGLE DAY

 

[Preacher_X]

we all know that kids who grow up in ghettos or in single parent familes how affected the kids can be.

well what about growing in a society where you have to have daily checks, you can't go back to your country, 75% of the population lives on less then $2 a day, where every day Israeli bulldozers and tanks come in and destory houses DAILY, a place where kids can not play out, a place where you are surronded by a 8 meter high wall with snipers in posts that cover your entire land, a place where the holiest mosque in you country is being taken over by Jews, a place where there are little schools and where the schools are often closed down and a place where since 2001:

since 2001 (children):

- 910 Palastinian children have been killed by Israelis

- 9,500 Palastinian children have been seriously injured by Israeli forces

- 2,000 children are being held captive by Israeli forces and remember Israel is the only country in the world with LEAGALISED TORTURE

since 2001 (children and adults):

- 2,934 killed by Israelis

- 38,500 serioulsy injured beacasue of israeli forces

- 2,500 permantly disabled by the IDF (israeli "defense" force)

- 308 died in assasination attacks (152 were bystanders)

- 25 medical personnal and 12 journalists killed while on duty

- 103 have died beacsue of delays in one of the 750 checkpoints in the occupied lands.

thats what you get for trying to go to school

if only Americans knew where their tax money ended up.

 

[§outh§tar]

I fail to see the discussion point.



Do you think Americans really care?

I smell PM and it doesn't smell nice.

 

[spidergoat]

Those kids have only their propaganda-filled parents to blame for their miserable situation. And there are suicide bombings all the time, kids are raised and encouraged to be suicide bombers even though, for the most part, they are older when they actually do it. War is hell, and both sides are fighting it. There is no moral high ground in the West Bank and Gaza. War is immoral. There are bloody pictures to be seen of Israelis, too, why don't you show them? Oh, right, you are a propagandist,too. As long as Palestinian parents deliberately put their children in harm's way, and reap the harvest of violence to further their cause, they deserve little sympathy. Indeed, it is considered a blessing in Islam to die for Jihad, so why complain, they get exactly what they want. Where are the pictures of the prosperous West Bank arabs with large homes? Conveniently overlooked, because all Palestinians are supposed to be "refugees". What a farce.

 

[Preacher_X]

no spider Goat they have Israel to blame not their parents. it was israel who invaded and took over their land and kicked them out not the other way around.

so what do you want Palastinians to do... roll over and play dead as Israel does all of that to them. what blatant hypocriscy. are you a jew? lets use your little logic for a sec... well why are you bitching about Hitler. if you didnt want to die then why did you financially help Britain in WW1, its all your fault... see dont like it do you.

Israel started this and not the Palastinians. before 1948 Jews owned 6% of the land anmd then all of a sudden they wannted 55% even after that, they looted more land and now have 90% and the rest is captured by them and under there command. only 5% of those Israelis were native and actually from Israel and they kicked out all of those Palastinians.

 

[Undecided]

spidergoat

There are bloody pictures to be seen of Israelis, too, why don't you show them? Oh, right, you are a propagandist,too.

Why do you absolve the Israeli public’s complicity, and even overt support for these measures? Both sides are to blame for the violence; neither side has the right to point the finger in terms of violence. If Israel wants to see the end of those bombings she knows what to do, leave the occupied territories and their colonial outposts. Pal. Land is not your land, and as long as you stay on that land don’t expect peace to come anytime soon. For the Pals. don’t expect the Israeli’s to pull of the occupied territories as long as you attack Israel.

 

[Preacher_X]

and whats wrong with wanting to go back to the country you were kicked out of only a few decades ago.?

and Spider Goat,

who invaded?
who kicked who out?
who has broken more UN resolutions then anyother country in the world?
who is stealing who's land?
who has the tanks
who has the planes
who has the bulldozers
who has the missiles
who has US backing

and Israel complains when a few of its citezans aer killed what about the plight of millions of Palastians?

look spidergoat, i dont know if your Jewish or not but just know one thing. America and the West support Israel for their own benifit and own agendas just like the Taliban and Sadam were supported for Americas/Europes own agendas. after these Western countries finish their agenda or dont need you anymore then they will stop supporting you and you'll have the same fate as Sadam and the Taliban and you are already surronded by 400,000 million people who have sworn to eradicate your country.

or what if by chance these 400,000 million ever unite together or what if the next emerging superpower happens to be out of this region? Israel is collapsing as it is and soon it will be destroyed. how badly have you treated the Palastinians and how much have you defied international law? when Amwerica falls from a super power (which is set to be beofre the next centruy) then what? you have defied all other countries so who will help you and no one will bother will international law when dealing with you, Jews already have a long history of perseuction, they;re religion was even founded by persecution (the Egyptian pharohs) and people have continued to persecute you throughout history, the only people who ever protected you were Arabs but thats long gone now... Israel does not have long to go.

 

[Preacher_X]

Undecided, i agree with you partially but the Palastinains can't do nothing as Israel goes on the offensive and attacks.

but at the end of the day, i see what you mean, both sides have to stop for their to be actual peace progressions but thats gonna be hard as long as there are people like spider goat and as long as there is US backing.

im glad though atleast someone realises Palastine is not Israeli.

 

[Undecided]

Undecided, i agree with you partially but the Palastinains can't do nothing as Israel goes on the offensive and attacks.

The Pals. can do quite a bit, I don’t that argument. Palestinians will not win in this battle against Israel, nor will they lose. The end situation will be a stalemate of biblical proportions. If the Pals. want to make their struggle legitimate, they have to defend their own towns from Israeli incursions but they should stop killing innocent Israeli’s.

[i thats gonna be hard as long as there are people like spider goat and as long as there is US backing.[/i]

And yourself Preacher, you are just as bad by the looks of it. All people ideologues whether they be Zionist, or Arab Nationalist are antagonists.

im glad though atleast someone realises Palastine is not Israeli.

I understand why Pals. attack Israel, and they do have legitimate reasons. But they doesn’t mean they should.

 

[Preacher_X]

ok, but i still belive Israel will be destoryed one day, its only a matter of time. its already in a mess and as the world becomes multi-polaric in terms of powers and when the US retires from a super power Israel will be over and this time they wont have the Arab countries to run off to and find shelter

 

[Undecided]

Yes I agree will eventually be destroyed, its up to the Israeli's how they go? Will it be peaceful, or another holocaust? It is truly only up to them, Israel is destined to be destroyed yes.

 

[spidergoat]

no spider Goat they have Israel to blame not their parents. it was israel who invaded and took over their land and kicked them out not the other way around.

The only ones who invaded Israel were the Arabs countries who couldn't stand to see Jews have any power. Jews already lived there, so it was an internal struggle.

Why do you absolve the Israeli public’s complicity, and even overt support for these measures?

I don't, the public supports strong measures against the war that is still being waged against it. I don't support the individuals that take things into their own hands and commit atrocities against innocent Arabs.

If Israel wants to see the end of those bombings she knows what to do, leave the occupied territories and their colonial outposts.

I think they should. In fact this is the plan of Sharon. But you know it won't end there. There are Palestinians who want Israel gone for good.

Pal. Land is not your land, and as long as you stay on that land don’t expect peace to come anytime soon.

Much of "Palestinian land" is now Israel's, tough shit, that's war, they risked land and lives, and sometimes you lose.

and whats wrong with wanting to go back to the country you were kicked out of only a few decades ago.?

Cause it is no longer their country. A huge proportion of Palestinians only moved to Israel around the same time as the Jews did.

who invaded?

Lebanon, Syria, Transjordan, Iraq, and Egypt.

who kicked who out?

The first large-scale assaults began on January 9, 1948, when approximately 1,000 Arabs attacked Jewish communities in northern Palestine. (here)

who has broken more UN resolutions then anyother country in the world?

F the UN.

who is stealing who's land?

No one stole anything, the term stealing does not apply.

who has the tanks
who has the planes
who has the bulldozers
who has the missiles
who has US backing

Israel, they would be stupid not to. Why do the Palestinians not have these things, where are their Arabs brothers? ...left them out to hang in the wind because they know overthrowing Israel is a lost cause.

 

[Undecided]

I don't, the public supports strong measures against the war that is still being waged against it. I don't support the individuals that take things into their own hands and commit atrocities against innocent Arabs.

But you support the actions of a collective who do the same thing? You aren’t fooling me in the least.

I think they should. In fact this is the plan of Sharon. But you know it won't end there. There are Palestinians who want Israel gone for good.

The Plan of Sharon is not all milk and honey, he proposes pulling out Gaza, and that has been passed but in return he wants to keep some major settlements in the West Bank, a move that has not been sanctioned by the Pals. It is still legally their land; no one recognizes Israel’s land claims in the WB or Gaza.

Much of "Palestinian land" is now Israel's, tough shit, that's war, they risked land and lives, and sometimes you lose.

Who told you this lie? The only state who recognizes this illegal occupation is Israel and Israel alone. What I am talking about is the 1967 Green line borders, yes they lost ½ of the region to Israel, but they never actually ceded that land to Israel. It was merely a cease-fire; the war is not yet over. But I am talking about the 1967 Green line, the same in which Israel violated and has been condemned constantly.

Cause it is no longer their country. A huge proportion of Palestinians only moved to Israel around the same time as the Jews did.

I can substantiate otherwise, don’t make the same mistakes you made before.

F the UN.

Imagine if the world said that in 1948, don’t be an ignoramus. Yet you wonder why the world considers Israel a threat to world peace?

 

[otheadp]

PreacherX:
you want statistics, take a look at this:
http://www.ict.org.il/articles/articledet.cfm?articleid=439

who has the tanks
who has the planes
who has the bulldozers
who has the missiles
who has US backing

'palestinians' have been successful in presenting themselves as a people (they are not), and the conflict as a 'palestinian'-Israeli

it is an Arab-Israeli conflict, not 'palestinian'-Israeli one
there were multiple conflicts where Arabs had a quantitative and sometimes qualitative advantage militarily over Israel, and in all conflicts they lost

it is irrelevant who has the tanks and who hasn't

and another thing: displaying dead bodies of children is disgusting and a strawman argument. i can show you dead bodies of Israeli kids. would that make your argument void or is dead Israeli kids not an atrocity? do you not mourn for them too?

and as far as "who stole whose land"
the Arabs of 'palestine' (or should i say of other countries) tried to steal the land on serveral occasions (beginning from pogromming bought land in mandate and pre-mandate Palestine, in '48 when they refused the UN plan and tried to steal the Israeli half of the partition, and in subsequent attempts to destroy the Jewish state in massive military assaults and invasions) and thus created (and conveniently maintained) a refugee problem

Israel will not be the one to take the fall for Arab nations' racism, xenophobia, strategy of racial-and-religious-purity-in-the-ME, and most of all incompitence

check this out
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1085455475373

 

[travis]

Israel will not be the one to take the fall for Arab nations' racism, xenophobia, strategy of racial-and-religious-purity-in-the-ME, and most of all incompitence

What?!?!? Israel is the most racist xenophobic country in the world. Citizenship papers don't say "Israeli", they say "Jew" or "Arab". Arabs are second class citizens. Any Jew in the world is automatically eligible for citizenship in Israel....it's a form of dual citizenship cleverly structured to circumvent the dual citizenship laws of other nations. But if a non-Jew wants to immigrate to Israel, no way. Jews do not promote the assimilation of Jews with other races.