Israel, Palestine and the Arab/Israel Conflict

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Territories have been taken and retaken for thousands of years.

Exactly, thus the Zionists have no claim on to that land, they lost their rights (they never had any to begin with). The last rulers of that land was the UK, and they officially endorsed a Arab state, not a Zionist one.

Since when did the Palastinians actually rule it?

Since when did European Jewry rule it? If we are going to follow racial lines, instead of religious ones. Palestinian Jews are the rightful owners of that land, yes Arab Jewry (they are the closest relative to Hebrews). But since their religion bars them from settling a state, they won't do it. You see G-d dosen't want the Jews to come to the Levant; they are not allowed to converge on that land. If they do, they will suffer great, great, great pain, and I suspect that the terrorism can be (if you are religious) an act of G-d. As a Christian I now understand why Evangelicals support Israel so much, not because we love Jews, or Israel. Quite the opposite we want them to convert, and finally destroy Israel. Israel is a living sin, Israel has no basis to exist other then as a refugee camp.

To say that it is now illegal is horseshit.


It's not illegal since the UN has allowed Israel to exist. But If Israel is to exist as a state so should Palestine that was the deal.

According to that logic California belongs to Mexico.

No because Mexico officially ceded that territory to the US. No one ceded anything to the Zionists.
 
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otheadp said:
it's all very simple. if you want to talk, we will talk. if you want to fight, we will fight. if you lose in the fight, don't whine for it is you who refuses to talk.

3) fighting is less and less acceptable in today's world because the west is becoming less and less tolerant to arab propaganda and to arab terrorism (or in other words, "we Jews control America")
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The jews do not control America. It is the media with which they influence their propoganda (the same way muslims influence Al-Jazeera and other literature east of the Atlantic). The jews have rich and influential people running the Chicago Sun-Times and the New York Times. While our American soldiers die in the Iraqi war-front, a decrepit jew is sitting in his arm chair at the helm of the New York Times mumbling "give 'em hell" in between puffs of his cigar, bites out of a Thomas's Bagel and Geritol injections. While the muslims continue to oppose America, the jews have successfully assimilated through immigration in the early 20th century and used the idiosyncracies of American culture to broadcast news with a cadence and delivery that sways every apologetic Christian-American of Anglo-Saxon descent into praying for Jesus to come back and "save" Al-Yahud. The muslim view of the United States as "Dajjal" (Arabic for "Anti-Christ") only perpetuates the burying of their heads in the sands so that their journalistic endeavors can never take root.

otheadp said:
so time to learn from your mistakes and improve the lives of everyone by doing some jaw jaw instead of war war
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The only Palestinian prisoner to ever amount to any secular decency was Anwar Sadaat who took the initiative to step outside the parochial boundaries of his culture for the greater good by actually reading about the German ghettos and the Gestapo. (Although I'll argue the details about his death with you on some other post.)
 
“The Cycle Of Violence” Is Zionist Propaganda.

“The Cycle Of Violence” Is Zionist Propaganda.

It is all too common for the Zionist to describe the bloodshed in Israel and Palestine as a cycle of violence and how the Palestinians aren’t helping. They also bitch about the suicide bombings to. Well describing what is happening in Israel and Palestine as a cycle of violence is complete bullshit.

In 2003 alone:
882 Palestinians Dead including 117 children killed through Zionist military action.
But only 91 Israelis dead.

Since 2001, 2,934 Palestinians have been killed (550 were kids)
38,500 have been seriously injured (1/4 were kids)
2,500 People have been permanently disabled.
25 Medical personal whilst on duty have been killed
103 have died because of ambulances carrying injured have been delayed by one of 750 checkpoints.

Also remember that there are 5,000,000 Palestinian refugees who were all kicked out from the beginning of 1948 onwards, Israel’s people all have homes and are not refugees instead they are on stolen land.

The Palestinian West Bank and Gaza Strip are ILLEGALY being captured and Palestine has nothing of its OWN land and is capturing nothing.

Palestinians are subject to 4 hours of border checks daily to go to work, school etc Israel is subject to nothing.

The unemployment rate in Rafah is 80% and 75% of the people live on less the $2 a day. Israel is very rich and makes loads of money from the stolen lands.

Also Palestine has no army and Israel has one of the most advanced military in the world and is backed by a superpower. I’m sick and tired of hearing on the news “there has been fighting in the west bank between Palestinians and Israeli troops.” What fighting! Soldiers with bullet proof body armour, machine guns and tanks with the backing of helicopters and gunship Vs. Palestinians throwing rocks and using home made petrol bombs.

Using the phrase “cycle of violence” is also wrong because Palestine didn’t start this mess, it was Israel who burnt down 500 Palestinian villages (50%) and forced them out and then quickly took their land. It is Israel who have destroyed thousands of acres of Palestinian farming land and almost weekly send in bulldozers to demolish houses to make room for more land. They have made a Palestinian refugee population of 5,000,000 and made hundreds of thousands homeless.

And here are pictures of the cycle of violence that ISRAEL STARTED and ISRAEL CONTINUES!!!!
http://www.alkhilafah.info/massacres
 
actually the words "cycle of violence" are a western invention which they use whenever there's a suicide bombing.

when Israel goes into Judea or Samara or Gaza they call it "Israeli aggression" and say tha Israel should stop.
when there's a suicide bombing they call it "cycle of violence" and that everyone should stop (i.e. Israelis shouldn't retaliate)
 
otheadp said:
actually the words "cycle of violence" are a western invention which they use whenever there's a suicide bombing.

when Israel goes into Judea or Samara or Gaza they call it "Israeli aggression" and say tha Israel should stop.
when there's a suicide bombing they call it "cycle of violence" and that everyone should stop (i.e. Israelis shouldn't retaliate)
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otodeap you killed another innocent child.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...20040522/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians_9


How many more are you planinng to kill? and then u complain about retaliation. :mad:

Do you ever feel that killin is simply wrong? or for you like your brothers in israel palestanians are no humans? or you will be rewarded in heavns for killing them and destroying their homes?
 
Preacher, I'm somewhat in agreement that "cycle of violence" can be a confusing term as applied to the ongoing conflict between Zionists and others. It's applied with some confusion as well in reference to individual abusive behavior: In one sense, the phrase describes a statistical propensity for individuals who were abused as children to become child abusers themselves in adulthood; It's also used to describe the phases of calm, tension building, violent incident, and making-up of abusive personal relationships.

Sometimes in political discussion it's borrowed to describe how the trauma of the Holocaust and earlier pogroms contributed to the willful participation of European Jews in dispossessing and oppressing Palestinians. In this case it could also describe Palestinian violence, being perpetrated on new victims, in the generational sense. I've not heard it used to describe the cycle between Israeli offensives, intifadehs, relatively calm periods, Arab-Israeli wars, etc. maybe because the modern Mideast does not have a predictable period of violence and calm.

In spite of the confusion, I'm not ready to dispense with the term, but I'm learning to explain better what I mean when I use it. The most valuable insight of "cycle of violence" is that it involves more than one participant.

Israel has well-proven superiority in dishing out violence, and it has been complete folly for Palestinians to attempt to kill and dispossess on the same scale in retaliation. This is a compelling reason for Palestinians to unilaterally break the chain of violence, by not participating in a contest that they cannot win in the present geopolitical context.

If a truly non-violent resistance movement were to thrive among Palestinians, Israel could be brought into line with universal standards of human rights in much less time, and with much less bloodshed than any or all intifadehs combined. Almost all of the blood would be Palestinian, along with that of some foreign and Jewish activists for the Palestinian cause. Nonviolence would extremely rapidly pivot public opinion worldwide, and especially in the USA, in favor of Palestinian civil rights.

Because of this difficult but much more promising opportunity, as compared to the most sensational methods by which Palestinians are resisting in the eyes of the world so far, there may still be some truth and value in the phrase "cycle of violence", if used in the most fitting context.
 
I agree with Hype, Zionists want this "cycle of violence" nonsense because Zionism feeds off the "victim syndrome", in return Israel get's more US aid. If Pals. really want things to change for their favor they should follow hypes, and my warnings. This war is one of propaganda, and the Pals. don't have the machine to pump out the same level of it. If the Pals. staged peaceful demonstrations against the wall for instance, no guns, no bombs, just sitting down in the projected path of the wall. The Israeli's will have to choice but to "expel" them so they aren't in the way. Sure some deaths will occur, but the Pals. should not attack back. That overt human rights abuse get's out to the international media, the UN condemnations, and the US even will have to occur. The tide will swing disastrously against Israel, as it did for the British in India. Make Israel look for what it is, an oppressor. You attacking them justifies their actions, don't give them that chance. Let Israel wallow in “peace”.
 
And if sitting won't get the self-absorbed world off its ass, a hundred pacifist Palestinians could walk out of their demolished houses in Rafah, one thousand could walk with them from Ramallah, joining ten thousand more in Gaza, joined by ten thousand more in Ramallah, and all of them together, including not a few clear-thinking Jews in their midst, (and yes there could be a few hundred fallen in the first hours) all could reach Jerusalem, again the City of Peace, literally empty-handed yet with the entire world eating out of it. It would be a much shorter and better publicized walk than Ghandi's.
 
Well I suspect that US will be much harder to win over then Europe. Instantaneously the Europeans would support the Pals. in their cause should the Pals. wizen up a bit. Hamas, Fatah,etc should hand in their weapons and officially renounce violence, pool their financial resources together to launch a program of peaceful, assertive protest. Israel simply could not stand it, they would be killed by their own words, remember if the "teworism" were to stop the Pals. would get what they want. Israel won't let it stop, and will attack "teworist" phantom hideouts. I think the best example to support our position was the recent UN condemnation of Israel's appalling actions in Rafah, and the attack on a peaceful protest in Gaza. Israeli's don't know how to deal with passive resistance, they only know violence, and they would freak without it.
 
Palestinians would not have to stop all violent resitance to make the first steps, but in one day of massive non-violence they could far overshadow it, and leave it behind. Everybody knows that Palestinians can't bomb their way back to equality with Jews- equality is available for the taking with relatively less dying, and with no killing at all.
 
skywalker said:
otodeap you killed another innocent child.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...20040522/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians_9


How many more are you planinng to kill? and then u complain about retaliation. :mad:
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the 'palestinian' terrorists should ask themselves that question.

the PA "government" is under obligation to its own citizens and their Israeli partners from the signed agreements to stop smuggling of weapons from Egypt (Egypt is also supposed to do something but Mubarak is the king of doubletalk... not much can be expected of this so-called friend)
Arafat refuses to stop it, and in the meantime Hizballah's Katyusha rockets and AK's are being smuggled in for rival 'palestinian' gangs to use domestically in the 'palestinian' population centres and to send into Israeli towns.. .and I'm not just talking about those towns inside Gaza and Judea & Samaria. they're shooting rockets into Sderot.

reports say that Hizballah is sending in better rockets with better range that can hit deeper into "Israel proper".

Arafat and his PA nazis aren't interested in stopping the cycle of violence and terrorism against Israel so who is left to defend our citizens?
I know, skywalker, you are very eager to stop those weapons smugglings from taking place. until you buy that plane ticket and volunteer in the Arafat 'police' to stop it, the IDF is just going to do that by themselves.

the minority of 'palestinians' who take it upon themselves to put the peaceful 'palestinian' population at risk is at blame here.

check out the 4th Geneva Convention, Article 28 (not that i care much for it, but from the international law's perspective):

"The presence of a protected person may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations ..."

also, if you want to see real statistics, check out this site.
people complain that the IDF has killed 3000 'palestinians', while 'palestinians' have killed 1000 Israelis, so therefore it makes the 'palestinians' more humane somehow.

the people you are rooting for are inhumane butchers. in the long run Operation Rainbow will save more 'palestinian' lives because it will prevent the need for retaliations.

where were your protests when 'palestinian' butchers shot on purpose a pregnant mother and her 4 children? were the terrorists conducting searches for weapons in the area?
 
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by the way, from your own link:
In the West Bank, four people were wounded by a Palestinian suicide bomber near an Israeli army checkpoint.
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it was actually 5 people. one was a soldier, the other four were 'palestinian' civilians waiting at the checkpoint

did the press mention that? .. didn't think so!
 
Statistics: their manipulation in the Israeli - "Palestinian" conflict

People think that since the Israeli army has killed 3 times more people than 'palestinian' terrorists did, that makes the 'palestinians' more humane, less agressive, and basically "right".

one of the first things they teach you in any basic statistics class is that one of the ways to skew statistical results is displaying absolute values without percentages.

check out these statistics and make your own conclusions

the 3000 vs. 1000 dead is meaningless
 
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several misrepresentations that people forget to mention include:

percentage of non-combatants killed
percentage and total # of women killed
percentage of "work accidents"
percentage of killing collaborators
total and percentage of 'friendly fire'
etc. etc.

a sample of graphs:

Graph2_9.gif

Graph2_10.gif
 
Interesting article.

The proportion of females among Israeli fatalities was relatively low in the early months of the conflict, and gradually rose to a level of around 30 percent; since June 2001, this proportion has remained fairly stable. Palestinian fatalities, in contrast, have been consistently and overwhelmingly (over 95 percent) male (see Graph 1.5).
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I think the above quote says something. If it was indeed true that israel forces were targetting civilians on a mass scale then one would expect a higher fatality ration for women. This is in theory of course. This doesn't mean actually that Israeli forces do not target the civilian population.
 
Wasn't it a Jewish chap who claimed;

"There are three types of lies, lies, damn lies and statistics"

:)
Dee Cee
 
Mark Twain did

aha.. when the poor little butchers present you skewed statistics, it's "brutal occupation"
when the victim does, it's damn lies eh?

statistics don't lie... they can be manipulated, sure, but if you read the article you see that no manipulating is done because that statistical research was done in the most scientific way.
Mark Twain said it as a joke. he is actually quoted in many Zionic websites for other things he wrote
 
crazy151drinker said:
"(illegal because international law clearly states that captured territory must be returned and can not be turned to cities of occupiers let alone the capital!"

So then I guess the turks (ie ottoman empire) should be given back their palastinian lands. Hmmmm well the Romans had it before that so I guess the Italians now own all the palastinian lands.

I guess war is now illegal.....
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what complete horsehit! Those situataions are completly different. firstly these areas belong to Egypt and Jordan and NOT Israel and also The UN has demanded a complete withdrawal of the terrotirtes by Israel. also, the UN has demanded that Israel take out illgeal settelers from the areas. also these areas ARE NOT part of the Israel under the UN partition. also Israel is ignoring its international obligation to ensure that these captured land are secure and financically stable. 3/4 of Palastinans live on under $2 a day and tens of thousands homes have been knocked down. :(

if you think these captured terrotires are legal you are a jack ass. please get an eductaion and study what the UN says and the many resoluation it has made against Israel because of this.

if it was not for American Vettos, then Israel would have been attackked by NATO and the UN forces.
 
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