Whirl you do realise that the technology for interception for interbalistic missles has been developed and is more or less being implemented. I distictly remember the US instituting the program for it and its a collaborative effort amongst several countries not sure if it includes Israel but I m pretty certain it includes Australia and a few other countries. Missle shield or something forgot what they called it.
Israel, Palestine and the Arab/Israel Conflict
- Thread starter goofyfish
- Start date
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You still haven't disputed anything said, which only re-enforces my point that you don't know what you are talking about. What alternative is there to Arafat? Why does Arafat exist? etc. You are too scared to be logical for once that you must appeal to authority, and who resorts herself to a appeal to ridicule, and ad homs to try to make a point. Fallacci is a very appropriate name indeed..
Israels' problems' today notwithstanding the political , social and economic nightmares that plague it, includes the simple but apocalyptic enigma of numbers. Israel faces a demographic nightmare, the Israeli population (2003 figures) stands at roughly 6.1 million, with a population growth rate of 1.39% and a birth rate of 18.67/ 1000 births.
This is to be contrasted with that of the Palestinians in the occupied territories who currently stand at 3.4 million and have a population growth rate of around 3.5% , with a birth rate of around 36/1000 births , which is twice that of the Israeli figure.
(Source: CIA Factbook.) It has been postulated that the Arab Muslim population will surpass the Jewish Majority within a generation. An eventuality such as this will seriously compromise the ability of the Jewish State to govern itself effectively, not to mention the nightmarish security situation which will be wrought upon them. Any attempt by an Israeli Government which would seem to assist this impending catastrophe by limiting the nature and scope of Israeli settlements in the territories will be certainly met with dire reprisals both from the settler community as well as hardliners within the Government. This is basically what we have observed , with the rejection of the Sharon disengagement plan by his own party, which enjoys the support of the settlers. The main focus of Sharons attention is on the West Bank, biblically the land of Judea and Samaria, and on whose hallowed ground stands Jerusalem, which the Israelis imagine their future capital to be.(functionally). Getting rid of Gaza , which he construes to be nothing more than the extension of the Sinai, Sharon hopes , will allow him to validate his claims to the West Bank, by appearing to offer concessions ,(making him a man open to negotiation), while simultaneously conducting a land grab by means of the security fence , (ostensibly to keep the terrorists out). With the recent defeat of his Plan B , Israel now finds itself in a tight spot. Golda Meir would have done well to Listen to Moshe Dayan when he pleaded with her not to seize the "Hornets nest of Gaza, where we will be straddled with a million and a half Palestinians" during the 1967 war. (Israels Wars, Aharon Bregman)
This is to be contrasted with that of the Palestinians in the occupied territories who currently stand at 3.4 million and have a population growth rate of around 3.5% , with a birth rate of around 36/1000 births , which is twice that of the Israeli figure.
(Source: CIA Factbook.) It has been postulated that the Arab Muslim population will surpass the Jewish Majority within a generation. An eventuality such as this will seriously compromise the ability of the Jewish State to govern itself effectively, not to mention the nightmarish security situation which will be wrought upon them. Any attempt by an Israeli Government which would seem to assist this impending catastrophe by limiting the nature and scope of Israeli settlements in the territories will be certainly met with dire reprisals both from the settler community as well as hardliners within the Government. This is basically what we have observed , with the rejection of the Sharon disengagement plan by his own party, which enjoys the support of the settlers. The main focus of Sharons attention is on the West Bank, biblically the land of Judea and Samaria, and on whose hallowed ground stands Jerusalem, which the Israelis imagine their future capital to be.(functionally). Getting rid of Gaza , which he construes to be nothing more than the extension of the Sinai, Sharon hopes , will allow him to validate his claims to the West Bank, by appearing to offer concessions ,(making him a man open to negotiation), while simultaneously conducting a land grab by means of the security fence , (ostensibly to keep the terrorists out). With the recent defeat of his Plan B , Israel now finds itself in a tight spot. Golda Meir would have done well to Listen to Moshe Dayan when he pleaded with her not to seize the "Hornets nest of Gaza, where we will be straddled with a million and a half Palestinians" during the 1967 war. (Israels Wars, Aharon Bregman)
Well put, and yes Israel is an in demographic trap. But Israel cannot survive, it's simply not sustainable. She has enormous public costs, mainly to the military, a stressed out population, a horrible economy, and increasingly large problems of emigration. Israel is not the haven for Jewry anymore, the country is in a very dangerous position, and the country exists out of subsidy, left to its own devices that country would simply cease to exist. The US can only afford to support Israel for so much longer, and I don't see Israel lasting much longer then 2025-50.
Mr. Foley's assertion that visiting the temple mount precipitated the Palestinian uprising ignors the fact that Israel also sees the temple mount as holy and has just as much right to visit.
They don't have a right to visit that area, which is sacred to Muslims. You may want to believe or think he has a right, but really he doesn't. Sharon obviously wanted to instigate the Pals. in the upcoming election so he could sweep into power by providing a strongman against the Pals. and his coup d'grace worked gracefully. There was no reason for Sharon to go there other then to piss people off.
The demographic problem in Israel is quite real and recognized by all concerned (especially the Israeli government). If nothing is done, the democtratic state of Israel will fail.
The democratic state of Israel will disappear regardless. If Israel is to go through with some Nazi type deportations, or even mass exterminations she has to become a fascist state. I seriously do see Israel becoming a fascist state soon enough (15 year time frame). Unfortunately for Israel, it would fail. Fascism is the last desperate plea for survival and it usually fails. So Israel doesn't have much to live anyways. Israel is simply not sustainable.
They don't have a right to visit that area, which is sacred to Muslims. You may want to believe or think he has a right, but really he doesn't. Sharon obviously wanted to instigate the Pals. in the upcoming election so he could sweep into power by providing a strongman against the Pals. and his coup d'grace worked gracefully. There was no reason for Sharon to go there other then to piss people off.
The demographic problem in Israel is quite real and recognized by all concerned (especially the Israeli government). If nothing is done, the democtratic state of Israel will fail.
The democratic state of Israel will disappear regardless. If Israel is to go through with some Nazi type deportations, or even mass exterminations she has to become a fascist state. I seriously do see Israel becoming a fascist state soon enough (15 year time frame). Unfortunately for Israel, it would fail. Fascism is the last desperate plea for survival and it usually fails. So Israel doesn't have much to live anyways. Israel is simply not sustainable.
Why don't Isralis have a right to visit the Temple mount? After all, its called that because the Jewish Temple stood there for many centuries.
It's not Israeli's who can't visit the temple mount, I can't go there either (catholic), and a Jew can't go either, and atheists can't go there either. It's a Muslim holy site, and as such it must remain pure. That's just the way it is, Al Asqa is there, and you have the wailing wall. It's only fair, what pissed off the Pals. more then anything else was that Sharon said that that mount was forever Israeli. (I am not sure but I even think he uttered something about the 3rd temple). That was obviously done to piss people off, lets not pretend to be ignorant here.
I don't dispute the Muslims' right to visit the Temple mount, but please explain to me why the Jews don't have equivelant rights -- and don't quote any religious reasons because that's exactly what a Jew would do
A Zionist fanatic could go and blow the place up; there are Zionist terrorists out there too. It's just the way Muslims are, only Muslims can go to Mecca, and only Muslims can go to Al Asqa. I think that Old Jerusalem should be administered from the UN, because these two people simply can't deal with it. At least there neither Sharon nor Arafat can claim it for themselves and start many wars.
It's not Israeli's who can't visit the temple mount, I can't go there either (catholic), and a Jew can't go either, and atheists can't go there either. It's a Muslim holy site, and as such it must remain pure. That's just the way it is, Al Asqa is there, and you have the wailing wall. It's only fair, what pissed off the Pals. more then anything else was that Sharon said that that mount was forever Israeli. (I am not sure but I even think he uttered something about the 3rd temple). That was obviously done to piss people off, lets not pretend to be ignorant here.
I don't dispute the Muslims' right to visit the Temple mount, but please explain to me why the Jews don't have equivelant rights -- and don't quote any religious reasons because that's exactly what a Jew would do
A Zionist fanatic could go and blow the place up; there are Zionist terrorists out there too. It's just the way Muslims are, only Muslims can go to Mecca, and only Muslims can go to Al Asqa. I think that Old Jerusalem should be administered from the UN, because these two people simply can't deal with it. At least there neither Sharon nor Arafat can claim it for themselves and start many wars.
I'm not sure which group wants yet another Jewish temple more, the Zionists or the Charismatic Christians.
Zionists really don't care they are atheists, Christians do because they want Israel gone, and Jews do so they can "revive their past".
As for the Muslim holy site, the Muslim clerics intentially chose the Temple Mount to build the Dome of the Rock -- specifically to spite the Jews.
Ermmm...not really that is where Muhammad ascended into heaven.
The mosque is actually a converted Christian Church.
I never heard of that, I am inclined to believe you are talking about the Mosque in Istanbul.
There is nothing in the Koran which specifies this is so, and don't tell me this is where Muhhamad assended or some such nonsense.
I very highly doubt you ever read the Quran so I don't take your interpretation seriously at all, secondly if Muslims believe that to be true who are we to deny them the right? Just because it makes you feel uncomfortable? Give me a break, get over your self-importance. Get over it, Jews, Christians, etc are not allowed to go and it's an accepted fact. The fact that Sharon stated that, that land would be part of Israel knowing it was the 3rd religious site in Islam, he wanted an intifada. So let's move on shall we this is getting quite boring.
Zionists really don't care they are atheists, Christians do because they want Israel gone, and Jews do so they can "revive their past".
As for the Muslim holy site, the Muslim clerics intentially chose the Temple Mount to build the Dome of the Rock -- specifically to spite the Jews.
Ermmm...not really that is where Muhammad ascended into heaven.
The mosque is actually a converted Christian Church.
I never heard of that, I am inclined to believe you are talking about the Mosque in Istanbul.
There is nothing in the Koran which specifies this is so, and don't tell me this is where Muhhamad assended or some such nonsense.
I very highly doubt you ever read the Quran so I don't take your interpretation seriously at all, secondly if Muslims believe that to be true who are we to deny them the right? Just because it makes you feel uncomfortable? Give me a break, get over your self-importance. Get over it, Jews, Christians, etc are not allowed to go and it's an accepted fact. The fact that Sharon stated that, that land would be part of Israel knowing it was the 3rd religious site in Islam, he wanted an intifada. So let's move on shall we this is getting quite boring.
i told them but when i went up to them they said they didnt know.
i tried to say no but something just happened.
anyway, lol, i get the message now, sos for dissing you on the forums.
i tried to say no but something just happened.
anyway, lol, i get the message now, sos for dissing you on the forums.
crazy151drinker
Registered Senior Member
As far as 'scorched earth' policy, was Sherman the first to really use this type of strategy? Im sure Historically someone had to have done it first.....
49 Palestinean civilians killed by Israel since Monday !!
49 Palestineans are dead since Monday !!!!
U.N. Envoy Calls Israeli Gaza Raids a War Crime
GENEVA (Reuters) - The United Nations' special human rights envoy for the occupied territories said on Wednesday that Israeli military strikes against a Gaza refugee camp were war crimes and a violation of humanitarian law.
"These actions constitute...war crimes...They also amount to collective punishment which violates both humanitarian law and international human rights law," said South African law professor John Dugard in a statement.
http://www.aljazeera.net/mritems/images/2004/5/19/1_225891_1_6.jpg
The envoy, who has often strongly criticized Israeli actions, said that the U.N. Security Council should consider imposing an arms embargo against the Jewish state just as it had against the apartheid regime in South Africa in 1977.
"The special rapporteur calls on the Security Council to take appropriate action to stop the violence, if necessary by the imposition of a mandatory arms embargo," he said.
Israeli tanks and helicopters fired on protesters in a refugee camp on Wednesday, killing 10 Palestinians and raising a two-day death toll to 33 in Israel's bloodiest Gaza raid in years, witnesses said.
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=5195060
My comments: Israel must be dissmanteled for peace to prevail in the world, they have done enough evil so far, enough is enough !
Dont shout terrorism when some palestineans blow up some of those pigs..!! terrorism stems from terror and violence generates only violence.
49 Palestineans are dead since Monday !!!!
U.N. Envoy Calls Israeli Gaza Raids a War Crime
GENEVA (Reuters) - The United Nations' special human rights envoy for the occupied territories said on Wednesday that Israeli military strikes against a Gaza refugee camp were war crimes and a violation of humanitarian law.
"These actions constitute...war crimes...They also amount to collective punishment which violates both humanitarian law and international human rights law," said South African law professor John Dugard in a statement.
http://www.aljazeera.net/mritems/images/2004/5/19/1_225891_1_6.jpg
The envoy, who has often strongly criticized Israeli actions, said that the U.N. Security Council should consider imposing an arms embargo against the Jewish state just as it had against the apartheid regime in South Africa in 1977.
"The special rapporteur calls on the Security Council to take appropriate action to stop the violence, if necessary by the imposition of a mandatory arms embargo," he said.
Israeli tanks and helicopters fired on protesters in a refugee camp on Wednesday, killing 10 Palestinians and raising a two-day death toll to 33 in Israel's bloodiest Gaza raid in years, witnesses said.
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=5195060
My comments: Israel must be dissmanteled for peace to prevail in the world, they have done enough evil so far, enough is enough !
Dont shout terrorism when some palestineans blow up some of those pigs..!! terrorism stems from terror and violence generates only violence.
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U.N. Envoy Calls Israeli Gaza Raids a War Crime
Well the UN has officially passed a new Security Council resolution condemning Israel, and to demand the end of the illegal/inhumane destruction of Palestinian homes in Rafah. Well we know Israel's record when dealing with international law don't we? The Israeli's attacked a peaceful demonstration, and there were no threats to the Israel army. But we really shouldn't be shocked should we?
Well the UN has officially passed a new Security Council resolution condemning Israel, and to demand the end of the illegal/inhumane destruction of Palestinian homes in Rafah. Well we know Israel's record when dealing with international law don't we? The Israeli's attacked a peaceful demonstration, and there were no threats to the Israel army. But we really shouldn't be shocked should we?
just 49?
we lost almost 3000 on 9/11 and Pearl got beheaded and Berg got beheaded I think many more palestinians and muslims have to die as a whole to balance it out. Not even mentioning all the Israeli casualties that came from bombers and palestinian terror squads.
49 is just not enough
we lost almost 3000 on 9/11 and Pearl got beheaded and Berg got beheaded I think many more palestinians and muslims have to die as a whole to balance it out. Not even mentioning all the Israeli casualties that came from bombers and palestinian terror squads.
49 is just not enough
whoa... eluminate.. easy there
the Gaza operation is necessary but 'palestinian' casualties should be avoided
Magen David Adom (Israeli ambulance services) offered medical help to 'palestinians'
killing them was not at all an objective
except the terrorists and gunmen of course.
she yamutu, amen! kuss rabbak
the Gaza operation is necessary but 'palestinian' casualties should be avoided
Magen David Adom (Israeli ambulance services) offered medical help to 'palestinians'
killing them was not at all an objective
except the terrorists and gunmen of course.
she yamutu, amen! kuss rabbak
maybe the 49 who are dead are fake? just goat body parts that are unrecognizable protrayed as fallen people...
He thinks what happened here is fake so why not think that all this bs about palestinians suffering is really bs which it is. Its all fake they are just pretending and complaing to the gullable media who are just to happy to be fed lies and propoganda fed by the liars and fakers like the palestinians or other muslims who only fake and lie but then when you try to help kill you.
He thinks what happened here is fake so why not think that all this bs about palestinians suffering is really bs which it is. Its all fake they are just pretending and complaing to the gullable media who are just to happy to be fed lies and propoganda fed by the liars and fakers like the palestinians or other muslims who only fake and lie but then when you try to help kill you.
actually the number is 39 dead. not that it makes much difference.
i didn't hear any condemnations from the Security Council (what security? lol) when the last bus exploded in Israel, or when my schoolmates died in the disco... or any other suicide bombing... or the disgusting execution (freedom operation?) of a pregnant woman and her 4 children
i didn't hear any condemnations from the Security Council (what security? lol) when the last bus exploded in Israel, or when my schoolmates died in the disco... or any other suicide bombing... or the disgusting execution (freedom operation?) of a pregnant woman and her 4 children
btw, re: goat body parts, i know they did that in Jenin but the dead kids in Gaza are no goats.
i don't know... i'm sort of torn here. maybe a few massacres (real ones... not fake Jenin-type) are necessary to get the 'process' moving
this operation is going to be limited. they'll strengthen their security corridor and the 'palestinian' situation will continue.
i agree with you about a absolute war that is needed to solve the problem once and for all.
it's just that it hurts me to see dead children. it's not their fault that the busses and discos exploded... although the way their educating is done, they'll probably be the next ones to go boom when they grow up
maybe the UN should have more involvement to solve the situation the way only the UN can?
i don't know... i'm sort of torn here. maybe a few massacres (real ones... not fake Jenin-type) are necessary to get the 'process' moving
this operation is going to be limited. they'll strengthen their security corridor and the 'palestinian' situation will continue.
i agree with you about a absolute war that is needed to solve the problem once and for all.
it's just that it hurts me to see dead children. it's not their fault that the busses and discos exploded... although the way their educating is done, they'll probably be the next ones to go boom when they grow up
maybe the UN should have more involvement to solve the situation the way only the UN can?
oh right the UN which protected the Serbian Minority so great in Kosovo that they almost got exterminated. Oh the wonderful UN which runs for cover instead of protecting civilians which is their mission after all. These superb defenders of the innocent which press the gas pedal at the first sign of trouble. They are preforming great feats of protection especialy in places like latvia was it ? where 3 were thrown out of the country for being excesively drunk... was it? Hell they are just glory pawns that dont even solve the problem but make it worse because they would be seen as occupiers as well.
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