Islam, World's Fastest Growing Religion

[Crunchy Cat]

Proud Syrian

Hang on a second !! There is a big difference between going knocking doors and preaching and between 'wishing' our dear friends and beloved ones the same sweetness we feel in Islam !

There is a big difference between preaching and knocking doors
and wishing your dear friends and beloved ones the same
sweetness we feel in Jesus!

No matter how you word it, if you are an advocate of a religion
and / or urge acceptance of it then you are preaching.

I will offer Islam to my friends simply because they are very dear to me and i want them to be saved, what's wrong with that ?

I never said it was right or wrong; however, it is rather annoying.

I think you should be grateful for these friends, they really CARE about you.

They care about the same things any other human does. They
just rationalize differently.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

No my lady, I did not post to preach but to counter the pathetic christian lies against Islam and its great prophet....

When someone attack islam and spread false lies, then they must be challenged and stopped.

Really? I read your opening statement and there was nothing
in it that indicated thaht you were attempting to counter 'pathetic christian lies against Islam & friends'.

 

[Michael]

I know this is antidotal but as most of these posts are as well then what the hell. I have 3 friends who are Iranian. Each of them completely believed in Islam (of course). Each left Iran and all of them received an education (PhD). All of them have converted out of Islam and into Atheism. I’m saying pure atheists. There is no question in their minds. They laugh at how blinded they were in Iran by Islam. They say that most Iranians (outside of Iran) they know also are Atheists (although a few are not and they refuse to associate with those ones because they’re nuts). According to you Proud_Syrian this must suggest

1) That Atheism is the correct belief system
2) The because of this there must be some truth behind atheism.
3) That the trend is for Western countries to become atheists
4) That atheism is the choice people make – when given the choice.
5) That there is something holy and wonderful about Atheism.

I like the last one!

Anyway, according to what Cris has posted - that is that: Atheism is the fasted growing belief system ever. The direction is not for a world converted into Islam. All of the indicators actually suggest that the world is converting to Atheism.

As for the "actual numbers" of people converting to Islam in the “westernized” countries. It is very small and you are overstating if you suggest otherwise. Without a doubt the over whelming majority of people unfortunately become Christian. This we can all agree. There is no doubt. Also, when compared to people “converting” to the agnostic and/or atheistic belief systems, Islamic conversions are just too few to make any sort of a statistical difference. The percentage of Muslims in the West has remained stagnant over the last 50 years. The ratios of Christian and Muslim haven’t changed at all during this time. So to say the fastest growing religion in the world is Islam is to say nothing about religious conversion - it’s just an indication of the drop in birth rate in the average “Western” country relative to the SE. Pacific. That’s all. Like I said before, if I got 10 people to convert to “insert religion here” in Arabia this year. “insert religion here” would be growing at a rate of at least 5 (up to 10) fold faster than Islam. “insert religion here” would be the fastest growing religion in Arabia. Which really doesn’t mean squat. So you actually do Islam a disservice by 1) over stating the facts and 2) suggesting that antidotal evidence must have statistical significance and 3) that either has any relevance to what is “truth”.

If that were the case god/or lack there of must have changed many times over the last 50K years

 

[Silivren]

Poor girl! The US is so freakin bigoted, at least, people in power seem to be. My friend has a teacher that constantly preaches and makes fun of him because he's mormon.. and i know that's not as bad as the little girl, but still. Every bit matters. And i guarentee that if that had happened in my school district, a very large group of high schoolers would have started protesting about it.. said friend and I being a couple of them.

As for the topic? Maybe it's because of births, maybe it's because of conversion, maybe it's because of both. They can't keep perfect track of everything. *shrug* eh well.

 

[Nehushta]

Silivren,

Poor girl! The US is so freakin bigoted, at least, people in power seem to be.

Not to diminish this girl's plight, but I wonder if a Christian could openly wear her cross in Syria, or a Jew her star of David, or a Wiccan her pentacle? Just curious...
_________________________________________________

Proud_Syrian,

What do you say? Is there so much religious freedom in Syria that you have room to criticize the U.S.? If not, well, you know what they say about people who live in glass houses...

But just so you don't feel too picked on, there aren't many places where a Wiccan can openly wear her pentacle in a U.S. school either - so it's not just Muslims who are singled out for this type of religious descrimination in the U.S. - it's anyone who's not part of the Judeo-Christian majority. How do you feel about that?

 

[Proud_Syrian]

Re: Re: Re: Proud Syrian

Originally posted by Medicine*Woman

Originally posted by Proud_Syrian


I am shocked and appalled that this happened to this little girl! This defies our constitutional protection of separation of church and state.
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P S:

Well,the constitution is applied only when it comes to non-muslims, muslims on the other hand have to suffer discrimination and crude racism....note, this little muslims girl is AMERICAN, her parents are converts to islam and yet she suffers in her own land !! how sad and crule is that !!

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When I was a child growing up in the deep South, we said prayers in school, we had church ladies come in and tell us Bible stories, there was no protection for us under the constitution at that time. Of course, that's before I understood the concept of separation between church and state. Also, the parents in the community were WASPs, so they didn't protect us from these personal religious invasions. It was the accepted practice. When I was seven I went to a Baptist Sunday School with my friends. The Sunday School teacher asked us to say something nice to Jesus for dying for us. I said, "Jesus I'm sorry you died." Just then, the old bat of a prude came up and slapped me across the face for saying that I was sorry Jesus died! Now, I'm not sorry, nor do I believe Jesus died, but I hope the old bat did. It took me a number of years to escape from their clutches, but I did, and I'm free of their lies.
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P S:

Jesus never died on the cross nor he came to save us, he did not want even to die according to the bible itself, it is this illogical doctribe that those mislead sheeps indoctrinate in the minds of people to decive them...does God need to die to save us ?? how illogical and irrational to do that ? and can God DIE ?? Death is human attribute and cant be applied on THE ONE WHO CREATED DEATH.
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God Bless this little girl in Oklahoma. That reminds me of NAFTA. Texas is going to slip right off into the Gulf of Mexico, but don't worry. Oklahoma sucks!
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And God bless you too dear lady, thanks for your support.

 

[curioucity]

I feel like I'm supposed to care none bout this thread (sorry for the offence, I believe it is) since this bothers my ignorance.....
But, well, those racist people really have to be slain.... what use is it to sweat it, I can't and hate to get it.......

 

[Proud_Syrian]

Originally posted by Nehushta
Apparently my assumption that Islam is the fastest growing religion due to the higher birthrate in Muslim countries is correct. So please let me know which of my comments were ignorant.
================================
P S:

As I said before, it is NOT only the high rate of birth, it is the western conversion to islam that makes islam the fastest growing religion in the world.

==================================


Most Muslims are Muslim by default rather than by free choice. Is that an ignorant comment as well, or do you concede that this is the truth?
===================================
P S:

Now this is ignorant comment to make, most muslims are not muslims by default, they are muslims by free choice because they can change to other religion if they want specially the ones who live in your 'supposedly' FREE societies, so why they are not changing if they are muslims by default !!!!!!!!!!!!!

let me answer you before you ask that there is no freedom in the muslim world by telling that that if this is the case, why muslims who migrate to the west COMMIT more to Islam and become even more religious !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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By the way, I am truly sorry for the little girl who wasn't allowed to wear the hijab to school. I'm all about religious freedom - not about limiting religious choices, as you seem to think. I don't like Islam at all, and I particularly dislike it since 9/11, but then I don't like any of the Abramic religions. You needn't feel special in this regard.
==================================

It's sad to hear that you dont like islam and you blame Islam for 9/11 , I think you should blame your TERRORIST GOVERNMENT FORIEGN POLICIES regarding the muslim world and their support for the israeli sadistic terrorism against the palestineans !!! NOTHING IN ISLAM JUSTIFIES 9/11........NOTHING WHATSOEVER.

Islam strongly denounces terrorism:

http://www.islamdenouncesterrorism.com

 

[Proud_Syrian]

Originally posted by Silivren
Poor girl! The US is so freakin bigoted, at least, people in power seem to be. My friend has a teacher that constantly preaches and makes fun of him because he's mormon.. and i know that's not as bad as the little girl, but still. Every bit matters. And i guarentee that if that had happened in my school district, a very large group of high schoolers would have started protesting about it.. said friend and I being a couple of them.

As for the topic? Maybe it's because of births, maybe it's because of conversion, maybe it's because of both. They can't keep perfect track of everything. *shrug* eh well.

Well said my friend, your comments are very fair and rational.

Thank you.

 

[Proud_Syrian]

Originally posted by Nehushta


Not to diminish this girl's plight, but I wonder if a Christian could openly wear her cross in Syria, or a Jew her star of David, or a Wiccan her pentacle? Just curious...
__________________________

P S:

I think you dont know that about 12% of Syria's population are christians and that they enjoy MORE religious freedom than the one the muslims have in America....I challenge anyone to produce any evidence from respectable sources about christian or jewish oppression in Syria !

==============================

What do you say? Is there so much religious freedom in Syria that you have room to criticize the U.S.? If not, well, you know what they say about people who live in glass houses...

==============================
As i said before, I CHALLENGE ANYONE to produce credible evidence of religious oppression against christians in Syria !!!! !

=============================
But just so you don't feel too picked on, there aren't many places where a Wiccan can openly wear her pentacle in a U.S. school either - so it's not just Muslims who are singled out for this type of religious descrimination in the U.S. - it's anyone who's not part of the Judeo-Christian majority. How do you feel about that?
===========================
P S:

It's horrible, EVERYONE no matter what is their religious background has the right to practice their religion freely, this is BASIC HUMAN RIGHT.

 

[chalcedony]

NOTHING IN ISLAM JUSTIFIES 9/11........NOTHING WHATSOEVER.

Where do you think the 19 hijackers are now, based on your religion?

 

[Silivren]

Yeah, schools aren't just bigoted against muslims.. though i must say, my school is a lot looser than most. Even if some of the teachers are a bit bigoted, i don't think they would come down upon people for wearing religious symbols. Not that they notice. Said mormon friend borrowed a pentacle from one of my other friends, the teacher didn't even notice.. though another student said he'd pray for his soul.. *sigh*

Still, a lot of schools don't let wiccans wear pentacles.. they think they're satanic. I've heard stories about teachers fired because they're wiccan, students suspended because they wear their religious symbols..

Though i also once read a story about a christian girl who had a tattoo of a cross on her hand, and the school threatened to kick her out unless she had it removed. Why? It was a 'gang symbol'. The parents went to court and won, but this was after the girl removed the tattoo... Every religion has the chance of being persecuted against. The US is supposed to be the land of tolerance.. in words maybe, but not always in deed. Fun country, neh?

 

[Nehushta]

PS,

Originally posted by Proud_Syrian
I challenge anyone to produce any evidence from respectable sources about christian or jewish oppression in Syria !

I'm not sure what you'd consider to be a respectable source, but what about the Dhimmi website?

It's horrible, EVERYONE no matter what is their religious background has the right to practice their religion freely, this is BASIC HUMAN RIGHT.

At least on this point, we seem to agree.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Proud Syrian

As i said before, I CHALLENGE ANYONE to produce credible evidence of religious oppression against christians in Syria !!!! !

Enjoy:

http://www.foigm.org/IMG/phares1.htm

 

[Michael]

Is this true (from the second above site)

"In the 7th century, the Caliph Umar imposed this Dhimmi status on conquered populations under his rule. Christians, Jews, and others were forced to accept Al-Shurut al-Umariya, or Umar's conditions, a system of restrictions designed to shame and despoil non-Muslim subjects. Dhimmi peoples had to relinquish their land, were forced to pay a special "protection" tax (dhimma) or face death, wear distinctive clothing, and were banned from most government positions."

I only ask because I once asked about this "tax" before and no one would pipe up and give me an answer. Which is what I noticed happens on this board when one doesn't like the conclusion arrived at when answering the question. You, Proud Syrian, dropped the gauntlet yet when you are usually prolific now I hear nothing? Again, it’s just like this “tax” question I posted. Again, nothing. Or the question about variants of the Qur’an in existence and used today. Again nothing. I seem to notice that when ever one of these questions come up there’s near a pipe to be heard. My personal theory is that Muslims on the whole are quite rational and therefore instead of accepting the position that like all religions Islam is genuinely flawed they just pretend like the question was never asked. So I am left to assume the following:
1) The Qur’an was altered during its canonization implying it is not an original document evident by the fact that even today there exist multiple forms that obviously are not identical.
2) Foreign words exist in the Qur’an and therefore it is not in “pure” Arabic (what ever that is).
3) There was once a tax imposed on non-Muslims in Islamic dominated countries.

Now I see this religious tax in relation to a history of persecution and have a better understanding of why no one was willing to answer me.

All of which is typical of most religion. Even Christians in their convoluted logic at least accept the glaringly obvious facts. Even they as a minimum attempt to make a case that Jesus existed or was historical. They don’t just throw down the Gauntlet and then walk away.

 

[Proud_Syrian]

Originally posted by chalcedony
Where do you think the 19 hijackers are now, based on your religion?

According to Islam, those hijackers are now in HELL, let us read from the Noble Quran:

"...if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole humanity: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole humanity...(The Noble Quran, 5:32)"

 

[Proud_Syrian]

Re: Proud Syrian

Originally posted by Crunchy Cat
Enjoy:

http://www.foigm.org/IMG/phares1.htm

Oh Please,,,,,,,,,,give me CREDIBLE source like AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL or HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH, dont give me these anti muslim hate crap sites....

My challenge is still on........so go ahead, I am waiting.

 

[Proud_Syrian]

Originally posted by Nehushta


I'm not sure what you'd consider to be a respectable source, but what about the Dhimmi website?
==============================

P S:

As I answered above, these are anti muslim christian and jewish hate sites, credible sites are those from INTERNATIONAL RECOGNIZED BODIES such as AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL and HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH.

 

[Proud_Syrian]

Re: Is this true (from the second above site)

Originally posted by Michael
"In the 7th century, the Caliph Umar imposed this Dhimmi status on conquered populations under his rule. Christians, Jews, and others were forced to accept Al-Shurut al-Umariya, or Umar's conditions, a system of restrictions designed to shame and despoil non-Muslim subjects. Dhimmi peoples had to relinquish their land, were forced to pay a special "protection" tax (dhimma) or face death, wear distinctive clothing, and were banned from most government positions."
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P S:

What a load of lies and BS, you see my friend, when you copy and paste from anti muslim hate site, this is what you get, hate and lies........Let me refute these LIES one by one:

Jerusalem was the capital of the Jews until A.D. 71. In that year, the Roman Army made a major assault on the Jews, and exiled them from the area after great savagery. As the time of the Jewish diaspora began, Jerusalem and its surrounding area was becoming an abandoned land.

However, Jerusalem once again became a center of interest with the acceptance of Christianity during the time of the Roman Emperor Constantine. Roman Christians built churches in Jerusalem. The prohibitions on Jews settling in the region were lifted. Palestine remained Roman (Byzantine) territory up until the 7th century. The Persians conquered the region for a short time, but the Byzantines later reconquered it.

An important turning point in the history of Palestine came in the year 637, when it was conquered by the armies of Islam. This meant the genesis of a period of peace and harmony in Palestine, which had for centuries been the scene of wars, exiles, looting and massacre, and which saw new brutality every time it changed hands, a frequent occurrence. The coming of Islam was the beginning of an age when people of different beliefs in Palestine could live in peace and harmony.

Palestine was captured by Omar, the second caliph after the Prophet himself. The entry of Omar into Jerusalem, the incredible tolerance, maturity and kindness he showed towards people of different beliefs, introduced the beautiful age that was beginning. The British historian and Middle East expert Karen Armstrong describes the capture of Jerusalem by Omar in these terms in her book Holy War:

''The Caliph Omar entered Jerusalem mounted on a white camel, escorted by the magistrate of the city, the Greek Patriarch Sophronius. The Caliph asked to be taken immediately to the Temple Mount and there he knelt in prayer on the spot where his friend Prophet Mohammed had made his Night Journey. The Patriarch watched in horror: this, he thought, must be the Abomination of Desolation that the Prophet Daniel had foretold would enter the Temple; this must be Antichrist who would herald the Last Days. Next Omar asked to see the Christian shrines and, while he was in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, the time for Muslim prayer came round. Courteously the Patriarch invited him to pray where he was, but Omar as courteously refused. If he knelt to pray in the church, he explained, the Muslims would want to commemorate the event by erecting a mosque there, and that would mean that they would have to demolish the Holy Sepulchre. Instead Omar went to pray at a little distance from the church, and, sure enough, directly opposite the Holy Sepulchre there is still a small mosque dedicated to the Caliph Omar. ''

So, in the above we are reading what WESTERN DISTINGUISHED historian Karen Armestrong wrote.....so if Omar really oppressed Christians, How do you explain the exsitence of substantial christian minority UNTIL now in Palestine ? How do you explain that these christian churches stood for centuries of Islam rule there and no onw destroyed them ????????????????

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I only ask because I once asked about this "tax" before and no one would pipe up and give me an answer. Which is what I noticed happens on this board when one doesn't like the conclusion arrived at when answering the question. You, Proud Syrian, dropped the gauntlet yet when you are usually prolific now I hear nothing? Again, it’s just like this “tax” question I posted. Again, nothing.
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P S:

Excuse me, I have no time to answer haters and people who believe lies and fabrications...when you copy and paste from anti muslim hate sites, then you lose your credibility as someone who is really trying to find out the truth.......but I will answer you here, I dont drop any questions, we are unlike christians have nothing to hide........

regarding the tax you are talking about, it is called AL JEZYA, and it is 1.5 % of your savings every year, the reason christians and jews who live under muslim rule pay this tax is because THEY ARE NOT REQUIRED to go to the army and fight, it is the muslim duty to fight and protect them.......THEY PAY AND STAY HOME, WE GO TO WAR AND GET KILLED....

If they pay 1.5 % tax ( NO ONE PAY IT NOWADAYS ) we muslims pay 2.5 % tax every year and WE GO TO THE ARMY while the christians and jews are home........so who is having better deal under islamic law ????????????????????

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Or the question about variants of the Qur’an in existence and used today. Again nothing.

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P S:

As I said, I cant debate all of you ALONE, but as I said, when you go to anti muslim hate sites, you will only get lies and hate....but here is your answer about the alleged variants of the Quran ( Please refer to these sites that I will give to you to find ALL the answers and the rebuttals for these pathetic haters ):

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Text/

http://www.answering-christianity.com/islamic_qa.htm

Salam ( Peace )

 

[Proud_Syrian]

And since at at, let us talk little bit about the CHRISTIAN SAVAGERY and BARBARISM against muslims during the Crusaders:

The Savagery of the Crusaders

Christian Crusaders plundered Jerusalem and killed all its non-Christian inhabitants:

While members of all three religions were living in peace and harmony in Palestine, the Christians in Europe decided to organize the 'Crusades.' Following a call by Pope Urban II on 25 November 1095 at the Council of Clermont, more than 100,000 people from all over Europe set out for Palestine to 'Free the Holy land from the Muslims' and find the fabled wealth of the East. After a long and wearying journey, and much plundering and slaughter of Muslims, they reached Jerusalem in 1099. The city fell after a siege of nearly five weeks, and the Crusaders moved in. And they carried out a savagery the like of which the world has seldom seen. All Muslims and Jews in the city were put to the sword. In the words of one historian, 'They killed all the Saracens and the Turks they found... whether male of female." One of the Crusaders, Raymond of Aguiles, boasted of this violence:

Wonderful sights were to be seen. Some of our men (and this was more merciful) cut off the heads of their enemies; others shoot them with arrows, so that they fell from the towers; others tortured them longer by casting them into flames. Piles of heads, hands and feet were to be seen in the streets of the city. It was necessary to pick one's way over the bodies of men and horses. But these were small matters compared to what happened at the Temple of Solomon, a place where religious services are normally chanted ... in the temple and the porch of Solomon, men rode in blood up to their knees and bridle reins.

In two days, the Crusader army killed some 40,000 Muslims in the barbaric ways just described. The peace and harmony in Palestine, which had lasted since Omar, ended in terrible slaughter. The Crusaders violated all the ethical laws of Christianity, a religion of love and compassion, and spread terror, allegedly in the name of Christianity.


The Justice of Saladin( The Noble Hero of Islam ) :

The barbaric Crusader army made Jerusalem their capital, and established a Latin Kingdom whose borders stretched from Palestine to Antioch. However, the Crusaders who brought savagery to Palestine did not last long. Saladin gathered all the Muslim kingdoms under his banner in a holy war, and defeated the Crusaders at the battle of Hattin in 1187. After the battle, the two leaders of the crusader army, Reynauld of Chatillon and King Guy, were brought in Saladin's presence. Saladin executed Reynauld of Chatillon, who had won fame with the terrible savagery he had committed against Muslims, but he let King Guy go, as he had not committed the same crimes. Palestine once again saw the true meaning of justice.

Immediately after Hattin, and on the very same day that Prophet Mohammed had been taken from Mecca to Jerusalem in one night, the day of the ascent, Saladin entered Jerusalem and freed it from 88 years of Crusader occupation. When the Crusaders had taken the city 88 years earlier, they had killed all the Muslims inside it, and for that reason they were afraid that Saladin would do the same thing to them. Whereas he did not touch even one Christian in the city. Furthermore, he merely ordered the Latin (Catholic) Christians to leave it. The Orthodox Christians, who were not Crusaders, were allowed to live in the city and live and worship as they chose. The British historian Karen Armstrong describes the second Islamic capture of Jerusalem in these words:

On 2 October 1187 Saladin and his army entered Jerusalem as conquerors and for the next 800 years Jerusalem would remain a Muslim city... Saladin kept his word, and conquered the city according to the highest Islamic ideals. He did not take revenge for the 1099 massacre, as the Koran advised (16:127), and now that hostilities had ceased he ended the killing (2:193-194). Not a single Christian was killed and there was no plunder. The ransoms were deliberately very low...

Saladin was moved to tears by the plight of families who were rent asunder and he released many of them freely, as the Koran urged, though to the despair of his long-suffering treasurers. His brother al-Adil was so distressed by the plight of the prisoners that he asked Saladin for a thousand of them for his own use and then released them on the spot...

When Imad ad-Din saw the Patriarch Heraclius leaving the city with chariots crammed with treasure, he urged Saladin to confiscate it. But Saladin refused. The Koran said that oaths and treaties must be kept to the letter and it was essential that the Muslims should observe the legalities... Heraclius paid his ten-dinar ransom like everybody else and was even provided with a special escort to keep his treasure safe during the journey to Tyre.

In short, Saladin and the Muslims in his command treated the Christians with great mercy and justice, and even showed them more compassion than their own leaders had.


Richard the Lionheart, was not very "noble" at all.
After Jerusalem, the Crusaders continued their barbarity and the Muslims their justice in other cities in Palestine. In 1194, Richard the Lionheart, who is portrayed as a great hero in British history, had 3,000 Muslims, among whom were many women and children, basely executed in Acre Castle. Although the Muslims witnessed this savagery, they never resorted to the same methods. They abided by God's command "Do not let hatred for a people... incite you into going beyond the limits" (Surat al-Ma'ida) and never used violence against innocent civilians. They never employed unnecessary violence, not even against the Crusader armies they defeated.

The savagery of the crusaders and the justice of the Muslims once more revealed a historic truth: Only an administration built on the principles of Islam could allow people of different faiths to live together in Palestine. This fact continued to be demonstrated for 700 years after Saladin, particularly during the Ottoman period.