Islam vs. the Western World: off-topic posts from a Religion thread
- Thread starter kks
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There is a big difference between "reinterpretation" and making new laws or striking out old ones, for example sodomy was once illegal in most states in the USA, there was nothing in the constitution forbidding or accepting it, slavery was once legal as well and so much so the "founding fathers" them selves had slaves, eventually the very bill of rights written by the founding fathers had to be revised to forbid it. You may be able to reinterpret your holy books how ever you want (which I would assume would put you as great odds with those that take a slightly different interpretation), but we can actually rewrite them!
lets see, the Quran doesnt mention a punishment for homosexuality and some of the schools of jurisprudence in Islam do not see homosexual acts as a valid form of sexual relationships and hence have nothing to say about it: neither banning it or approving it. Slavery is not allowed. etc etc. It takes a lot of effort to rewrite the founding papers of US law, you cant just change it willy nilly. However, you can reinterpret them more easily and the same thing happens all over the world. But because it is all documented in other languages and not English, a lot of people probably never hear about it and come to hasty decisions. I understand what you're trying to say, but I think the reinterpretation of religious law isnt that far fetched as some think.
Sorry about my spelling, watching movie and trying to figure out who Mysterion is o.0
The problem, of course, is how that might affect others ...of differing beliefs or religions.
And perhaps that's why theocracies of the world have never been good in dealing with the rest of the world. Muslim laws (or any other religious laws) can NOT be permitted to overshadow a purely secular legal system in the 21st century ...because they don't take into account the various religious beliefs of the rest of the world's people or cultures.
Baron Max
Actually they do. Muslim religious law specifically burdens the government with the protection of all religions, religious buildings and religious practices amonst others.
And what about the bodies of dead Muslims that were killing in attacks by Muslims? More Muslims have been killed my Muslims than all the westerners combined!!
Now what do you say about Muslims and lies and demonizations?
Baron Max
At least they can actually be rewritten.
Oooh do reinterpret it in say Iran, go right ahead have sex with another man and tell everyone Islam allows it there, I dare you! If anyone could reinterpret it any way they want then it not a religion anymore, its a personal ideology and I have nothing against that, religion is not personal ideology its many people believing the same thing without proof or reason, it is a meme, a virus of thought, and as much as you your self claim to reinterpret it how ever you want you are merely a mutant, and would quickly have your head cut off in many countries run by fellow believers for your claims.
More Christians/Westerners/Americans have been killed by Christians/Westerners/Americans than by Muslims/Arabs/brown people. Which begs the question as to why you arent concerned about your own.
And all Muslims follow exactly the same laws all over the world, in all cultures and in all societies? The members of al-Queda follow the same laws?
Baron Max
Its not theocracy that is the problem, you can see the same problems when power is concentrated in the hands of a few under any ideology. If its not Hindus vs Muslims, its Brahmins vs Dalits, rich vs poor, powerful vs powerless. The most important point which needs to be recognised in ANY society is that self determination is a prelude to social progress. Without the political freedom to have their say, no society will hear the voice of the disenfranchised. And the second, that it is the absolute duty of the majority to protect unequivocally, the rights of the minority and ensure their safety and self determination is preserved.
You're the one arguing about how great Islam is ....I'm not saying a damned thing in defense of Christianity or any other religion.
Again, ... "And what about the bodies of dead Muslims that were killing in attacks by Muslims? More Muslims have been killed my Muslims than all the westerners combined!!
Now what do you say about Muslims and lies and demonizations?"
Baron Max
They wont be for a very very long time.
The situation is interesting. But if anyone wants homosexuality to not be banned or punishable all they have to do is bring a motion and campaign for the abolishment of the current law. This is exactly what Ahmadinejad said and this is exactly how that law came to be there in the first place: because the people did not want it. So if the people want homosexuality, they can campaign for a new law. And no, they wont be put in jail for the rest of their lives as the government, that consists of Muslims and Jews and others will not allow it.
You could pick one. Be it Christians, Westerners or Americans. Dont want to pick Christianity/ Still have two other options. I'm not arguing about how great Islam is, not atm at least, I'm just replying to people who dont know a thing about it yet try to come off as all knowing.
Wow, that's neat, SAM. But does it come even anywhere near to explaining the situations in Iraq and Afghanistan ...and the ongoing support of the Taliban and the extremist Muslims of Iraq?
Those organizations are doing everything they can to fuck up their own nations, and Muslims around the world seem avidly in support of them. Why?
Your lovely, glowing statement above provides no insight into that avid Muslim support, does it.
Baron Max
Understood and accepted. But you have to admit that with the extent of Muslim terrorism in the world, on a daily basis, with Muslims killing Muslims, that it gives Muslims a somewhat tainted appearance. And what makes it much worse is the prevalent view that other Muslims of the world seem to avidly cheer some/most of those acts of terrorism.
Baron Max
What makes you think any Muslims are supporting the Taliban? And what makes the Northern Alliance, which is the current puppet of choice any better? They just sentenced a young journalist to life for blasphemy and have been freeing rapists and criminals. I support the right of the people of Afghanistan to choose what they want. If we want them to go back to the era when religious tolerance was better in their society, we have to help them to return to those conditions of security. Its like attacking the US because they twice elected a douchebag like Bush, what would killing a whole bunch of people because of their crappy governance achieve? What did it achieve in Afghanistan? In Iraq? In Iran?
We're surely advanced enough in our thinking to come up with better solutions?
Hmm, that's not what SAM said in her glowing words of the tolerance of the Muslim faith! She said:
"Its not theocracy that is the problem, you can see the same problems when power is concentrated in the hands of a few under any ideology. If its not Hindus vs Muslims, its Brahmins vs Dalits, rich vs poor, powerful vs powerless. The most important point which needs to be recognised in ANY society is that self determination is a prelude to social progress. Without the political freedom to have their say, no society will hear the voice of the disenfranchised. And the second, that it is the absolute duty of the majority to protect unequivocally, the rights of the minority and ensure their safety and self determination is preserved."
Baron Max
People supporting the fighters of their own country who are defending them from invasion? Well, I'll be!
Every resistance movement in every country thats ever been invaded or involved in a war has enjoyed the support of the locals. Even the colonists who fought against the British. Yes, those. Or are you going to tell me those American terrorists and insurgents didnt have any help and or support from other Americans while they were fighting off the British? While they were fighting off being controlled by an overseas force?Do you support all the bad things your government and or people do? No. Do you support what you see as good things your government and or people do? Yes. Thats the same for all the world.
Yes, they have that duty, but in case you didnt notice, not everyone does what they are supposed to. Or we wouldnt have that banning of gay marriage in California, was it? If it was left to the government, the situation would have stayed fine, but as soon as people got to vote on it, people voted because of their personal opinions and how they would live their lives, not whether they cared other people were or were not gay. So if you ask people to tell you how they want to live their lives, their own personal lives, and then you try and portray that onto the whole country, you get what happened in California (It was Cali right?) and Iran