Islam vs. the Western World: off-topic posts from a Religion thread

[S.A.M.]

So you suggest that we pull out and let the Taliban and any other extremist forcese have whatever they can take by force of arms and by violence?

Baron Max

I suggest that when something doesn't work, we look at some other way of doing things rather than racheting up the problems.

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem [so far] that Obama will bring any change other than a different flavour of jingoism to disguise the same policies.

 

[Baron Max]

Anyway, between October 7, 2001 thru March 2002 3,000 - 3,400 civilian deaths as a result of US aerial bombing. How many has the Taliban killed?

Well, I believe you (or someone?) stated earlier that over 1 million civilians had been killed. So one million minus 3400 = ....wow, a whole fuckin' bunch, huh?

Baron Max

 

[Arsalan]

If they give support, then they are not neutral or innocent civilians! They are supporters in no way different to giving aid and comfort. So, ...they should be legitimate targets of the US/UN coalition forces!!

Baron Max

You arent allowed to shoot and or kill unarmed civilians that personally do not pose any physical harm to you. So no. Moreover, support is not just giving aid and comfort.

 

[Arsalan]

Well, I believe you (or someone?) stated earlier that over 1 million civilians had been killed. So one million minus 3400 = ....wow, a whole fuckin' bunch, huh?

Baron Max

I didnt state such a thing. Provide me with the statistics. Also, those 3400, that was from Ocotber to March. Not even a full year. Since then, US drones have bombed nearly every village, wedding and funderal they can. Leading more people to support the resistance movement.

 

[Baron Max]

I suggest that when something doesn't work, we look at some other way of doing things.....

I agree!! We should begin a campaign similar to the campaign we used against the hated Nazis in World War II .....bomb and shell the country until the hated enemy leaves voluntarily or else everyone who resists is dead. It worked perfectly in Tunisia, Sicily, Italy, France, Belgium, et. al., why shouldn't it work in Afghanistan and Iraq?

Baron Max

 

[Arsalan]

I agree!! We should begin a campaign similar to the campaign we used against the hated Nazis in World War II .....bomb and shell the country until the hated enemy leaves voluntarily or else everyone who resists is dead. It worked perfectly in Tunisia, Sicily, Italy, France, Belgium, et. al., why shouldn't it work in Afghanistan and Iraq?

Baron Max

It will, its just the enemy that invaded Iraq and Afghanistan is not the Taliban, or the Afghanis or the Iraqis.

 

[Baron Max]

You arent allowed to shoot and or kill unarmed civilians that personally do not pose any physical harm to you.

So if they shoot, then hide their weapons behind the skirts of their women, they're instantly innnocent civilians??? Nice technique, huh?

Moreover, support is not just giving aid and comfort.

If the family is feeding and housing the enemy fighters, then that house becomes a legitimate target.

Baron Max

 

[Baron Max]

It will, its just the enemy that invaded Iraq and Afghanistan is not the Taliban, or the Afghanis or the Iraqis.

Don't matter, we did the same thing in Germany ....bombed and shelled the country until the Nazis surrendered. It worked then, it'll work now in Afghanistan and/or Iraq. Just keep killing and destroying until they surrender or the country is totally destroyed and is a pile of smoking rubble.

Baron Max

 

[Arsalan]

So if they shoot, then hide their weapons behind the skirts of their women, they're instantly innnocent civilians??? Nice technique, huh?

But they dont

If the family is feeding and housing the enemy fighters, then that house becomes a legitimate target.

Baron Max

Nope, you arent allowed to kill or strike if you know innocent civilians are in there, even if an enemy combatant may be present. But the US doesnt follow those rules, so the Taliban also strikes where the US soldiers eat and sleep and socialise.

 

[Arsalan]

Don't matter, we did the same thing in Germany ....bombed and shelled the country until the Nazis surrendered. It worked then, it'll work now in Afghanistan and/or Iraq. Just keep killing and destroying until they surrender or the country is totally destroyed and is a pile of smoking rubble.

Baron Max

Except for the fact that it was the Nazis who invaded half of Europe and started the war. The Afghanis and Iraqis never invaded the US. Moreover, the deciding factor in WWII was Russia. Russia completely annihilated everything Germany threw at it. This time, its just the US and a couple of other countries with a limited number of troops.

 

[Baron Max]

But they dont

But they do.

Nope, you arent allowed to kill or strike if you know innocent civilians are in there, even if an enemy combatant may be present.

Nope. Aiding and abetting the fighters is illegal ....else you become an enemy also. Feeding and housing the enemy is NOT the act of an "innocent" civilian.

..., so the Taliban also strikes where the US soldiers eat and sleep and socialise.

And no one ever complains about that ...it's part of war and every soldier and every American recognizes that. Never has any American stood up in protest about the Taliban attack the US bases.

Baron Max

 

[Baron Max]

Except for the fact that it was the Nazis who invaded half of Europe and started the war. The Afghanis and Iraqis never invaded the US. ...

Life's just tough all over, ain't it?

Baron Max

 

[Arsalan]

But they do.

Nope.

Nope. Aiding and abetting the fighters is illegal ....else you become an enemy also. Feeding and housing the enemy is NOT the act of an "innocent" civilian.

Until and unless the innocent civilian who you claim to be is "aiding and abetting the enemy" fires upon you and or is involved in direct combat with you, you are not allowed to kill him or her under international law. Moreover, you seem to be missing the meaning of support. Support is not just feeding and or housing, both of which can be done without any intention of supporting the resistance movement or being aware of the other persons intentions. Besides, if we go by your standards, any innocent civilian that comes into contact with US soldiers should be fair game. Thats not how it works.

And no one ever complains about that ...it's part of war and every soldier and every American recognizes that. Never has any American stood up in protest about the Taliban attack the US bases.Baron Max

Ehh, yes they have.

 

[Arsalan]

Life's just tough all over, ain't it?

Baron Max

Meh. Afghanistan is the graveyard of empires. The US will fail, just a matter of time. You can never beat the Afghanis in combat.

 

[S.A.M.]

You can never beat the Afghanis in combat.

Must they be put to the test in every century? I am not in favour of flexing muscles against the indigent.

 

[Arsalan]

Must they be put to the test in every century? I am not in favour of flexing muscles against the indigent.

Ya it is sad. But what can we do about it.

 

[Baron Max]

Must they be put to the test in every century? I am not in favour of flexing muscles against the indigent.

Well, the Taliban has and are, yet you don't seem to have that same misgiving. Why?

Baron Max

 

[Baron Max]

Meh. Afghanistan is the graveyard of empires. The US will fail, just a matter of time.

No, the US won't "fail", they'll just decide to pull out of the country ...mostly because the Afghanis aren't worth anything to them!

All the Afghanis in the country could die tomorrow and it wouldn't make one smidgen of difference to anyone else in the world.

Baron Max

 

[Arsalan]

No, the US won't "fail", they'll just decide to pull out of the country ...mostly because the Afghanis aren't worth anything to them!

All the Afghanis in the country could die tomorrow and it wouldn't make one smidgen of difference to anyone else in the world.

Baron Max

The US will fail, just like Vietnam. And while the US will feel it has lost face, the people whose country has been destroyed will rebuild and try to get on with their lives, just like Vietnam

 

[Baron Max]

The US will fail, just like Vietnam.

We pulled out of Vietnam, we were not defeated in war! ...LOL! In every battle ever fought in Vietnam, we won. But our own people back home wanted us out, so we pulled out.

What happens to Afghanistan after we pull out is almost surely to be that the Taliban takes control over the country. And women will be beaten, and girls won't be allowed to go to school.

Baron Max