Islam vs. the Western World: off-topic posts from a Religion thread

[Baron Max]

What makes you think any Muslims are supporting the Taliban?

World and public opinion! And I might add that from the posts on this site, it's more than obvious that there's at least a smattering of support ....and most assuredly there's no outright condemnation of it.

I support the right of the people of Afghanistan to choose what they want.

And what if the Taliban are stronger and get their way of it?

And I would also wonder just who the hell knows what the people of Afghanistan want? Are they a united people? Are they strong enough to get what they want? Or if they're weak bastards, should they be permitted to be subjected to the rule of the stronger Taliban?

We're surely advanced enough in our thinking to come up with better solutions?

Who is "we"? And I might add to that ...just what makes you think that "we" are so fuckin' advanced in thinking??? ...or haven't you looked around the world lately?

Baron Max

 

[Baron Max]

People supporting the fighters of their own country who are defending them from invasion? Well, I'll be!

Ahh, so all of the people of Afghanistan are fighting the "invasion"? So then the US/UN coalition can shoot, bomb and kill any Afghan they want?? ...they aren't civilians since they're fighting, right?? So you'll no longer mention anything about "civilians" being killed, right?

Do you support all the bad things your government and or people do?

Yes, we have to ....we elected those officials to represent us!! Or do you think that we Americans should also take up arms against anyone that we don't like .....like the Muslims seem to do all the time?

Baron Max

 

[S.A.M.]

World and public opinion! And I might add that from the posts on this site, it's more than obvious that there's at least a smattering of support ....and most assuredly there's no outright condemnation of it.

By your logic, so is the US. Hamid Karzai is also from the Taliban, he just gave himself a new address.

And what if the Taliban are stronger and get their way of it?

What would make them stronger? What would make extremism stronger in any society?

And I would also wonder just who the hell knows what the people of Afghanistan want? Are they a united people? Are they strong enough to get what they want? Or if they're weak bastards, should they be permitted to be subjected to the rule of the stronger Taliban?

And there you make an important and valid point. No, Afghanistanis are majority Pashtun, but they identify themselves by their tribe.

Who is "we"? And I might add to that ...just what makes you think that "we" are so fuckin' advanced in thinking??? ...or haven't you looked around the world lately?

Baron Max

We who live in relative comfort and security Baron. Thats the prerequisite for having the luxury to think about others.

 

[Arsalan]

Ahh, so all of the people of Afghanistan are fighting the "invasion"? So then the US/UN coalition can shoot, bomb and kill any Afghan they want?? ...they aren't civilians since they're fighting, right?? So you'll no longer mention anything about "civilians" being killed, right?

Learn to read. Then come back and read

Yes, we have to ....we elected those officials to represent us!! Or do you think that we Americans should also take up arms against anyone that we don't like .....like the Muslims seem to do all the time?

Baron Max

So there are no protests or demonstration? No calls for inquiries? No impeachments? Wow, where have you been the last few months :shrug:

 

[Baron Max]

What would make them stronger? What would make extremism stronger in any society?

Guns and the willingness to use them. And the Taliban have proven themselves perfectly willing to use them against their own people ....and thus they'll surely win in any struggle with the weaker less well-armed "civilians" of Afghanistan. And you're okay with that?

Baron Max

 

[S.A.M.]

Guns and the willingness to use them. And the Taliban have proven themselves perfectly willing to use them against their own people ....and thus they'll surely win in any struggle with the weaker less well-armed "civilians" of Afghanistan. And you're okay with that?

Baron Max

Then we need to address why they are willing to use them against their own people. Talk to them. Do you believe that is possible?

 

[Arsalan]

Guns and the willingness to use them. And the Taliban have proven themselves perfectly willing to use them against their own people ....and thus they'll surely win in any struggle with the weaker less well-armed "civilians" of Afghanistan. And you're okay with that?

Baron Max

So now you expect the Taliban to fight off invaders without guns? Funny stuff

 

[Baron Max]

Learn to read. Then come back and read

You said: "People supporting the fighters of their own country who are defending them from invasion? Well, I'll be! Every resistance movement in every country thats ever been invaded or involved in a war has enjoyed the support of the locals. ..."

So there are no "civilians" in Afghanistan ....they're all fighting the "invasion" forces of the US/UN. Therefore, no "civilian" Afghanis can be killed ..they're all fighters!

So there are no protests or demonstration? No calls for inquiries? No impeachments? Wow, where have you been the last few months

Sure, but those silly-assed protests seldom, if ever, determine the laws of our nation, not the basis of our international policies. Big difference.

Baron Max

 

[Baron Max]

Then we need to address why they are willing to use them against their own people. Talk to them. Do you believe that is possible?

Yeah, it's always good policy to talk to murderers and killers. Anytime a person wants anything, they just kill a bunch of people, and everyone says we should negotiate with them ....and give in to their demands. Or else they'll keep on killing.

Yeah, good one, SAM. Is that how you do with your friends who kill some of your other friends? ..just talk to them and see what they want??

Baron Max

 

[S.A.M.]

Sure, but those silly-assed protests seldom, if ever, determine the laws of our nation
Baron Max

Do you believe the people of Afghanistan should have that luxury too?

KABUL, Afghanistan - A former top Taliban official says Afghans blame NATO and the U.S., not Taliban insurgents, for the mounting civilian deaths. And, says, Mullah Abdul Salam Zaeef, the international forces should step aside to let the Kabul government and Afghan military negotiate a settlement to the war with the Taliban.

Mullah Zaeef, who became the public face of the Taliban regime as it collapsed in late 2001, says the Afghan government wants to reach a peaceful solution to the ongoing fighting with the Taliban and other insurgents, but is not being allowed to do so as NATO and the U.S. are firmly in control of military operations.

"They have no power, they have no independence to negotiate," said the mullah, a former confidant of Taliban leader Mullah Omar. "The foreigners should let the people of Afghanistan decide. If they want to talk to the Taliban, the foreigners should not interfere."

Mullah Zaeef spent almost four years in the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay after being arrested in Pakistan in January 2002. He was released at the request of the Afghan government, which is trying to work with "good Taliban" as part of a reconciliation program.

http://www2.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=86adcc80-9ee6-49bc-a35b-6df71597e5b0&k=37467

 

[Baron Max]

So now you expect the Taliban to fight off invaders without guns? Funny stuff

Taking SAM's approach at misdirection?? ...LOL!

But no, I expect what's happening in Afghanistan ....the Taliban are using their weapons to kill other Afghanis.

And you seem to like that. Why?

Baron Max

 

[Arsalan]

You said: "People supporting the fighters of their own country who are defending them from invasion? Well, I'll be! Every resistance movement in every country thats ever been invaded or involved in a war has enjoyed the support of the locals. ..."

So there are no "civilians" in Afghanistan ....they're all fighting the "invasion" forces of the US/UN. Therefore, no "civilian" Afghanis can be killed ..they're all fighters!

No, you asked why do the fighters enjoy support from various sections of the country. Not why does everyone join them and take up arms. It is possible to support the resistance movement without being a fighter you know.

Sure, but those silly-assed protests seldom, if ever, determine the laws of our nation, not the basis of our international policies. Big difference. Baron Max

So there are things you dont support your government does? But you still like the thing it does that are good? Well, thats how everyone else in the world feels too.

 

[Arsalan]

Taking SAM's approach at misdirection?? ...LOL!

But no, I expect what's happening in Afghanistan ....the Taliban are using their weapons to kill other Afghanis.

And you seem to like that. Why?

Baron Max

Not any more than the US weapons that killed Afghanis. The Taliban dont specifically target all civilians. The US just drops bomb on villages regardless of whose there. Wedding? Bomb it. School? Bomb it. House? Homb it. Cows? Bomb em.

 

[Baron Max]

Do you believe the people of Afghanistan should have that luxury too?

Yeah, and we're trying to give it to them by keeping the extremist Taliban out of the affairs of the normal, regular, peaceful Afghani people.

Yet you seem anxious for the peaceful, normal, mostly-unarmed Afghani people to fight the strong, heavily-armed Taliban. Why?

Baron Max

 

[Baron Max]

Not any more than the US weapons that killed Afghanis.

More Afghanis have been killed by the extremist Muslims than all those killed by US/UN forces.

The Taliban dont specifically target all civilians.

So setting off bombs in Afghani public marketplaces is ...what... targetting US/UN soldiers????

Baron Max

 

[S.A.M.]

Yeah, and we're trying to give it to them by keeping the extremist Taliban out of the affairs of the normal, regular, peaceful Afghani people.

Yet you seem anxious for the peaceful, normal, mostly-unarmed Afghani people to fight the strong, heavily-armed Taliban. Why?

Baron Max

To those of us who watch the unravelling of neighboring societies with alarm, the Americans look either like liars or incompetents. Neither of which is a comforting thought.

 

[Baron Max]

It is possible to support the resistance movement without being a fighter you know.

If they give support, then they are not neutral or innocent civilians! They are supporters in no way different to giving aid and comfort. So, ...they should be legitimate targets of the US/UN coalition forces!!

Baron Max

 

[Baron Max]

To those of us who watch the unravelling of neighboring societies with alarm, the Americans look either like liars or incompetents. Neither of which is a comforting thought.

So you suggest that we pull out and let the Taliban and any other extremist forcese have whatever they can take by force of arms and by violence?

Baron Max

 

[Arsalan]

More Afghanis have been killed by the extremist Muslims than all those killed by US/UN forces.

You mean Christian forces, not US/UN.

Anyway, between October 7, 2001 thru March 2002 3,000 - 3,400 civilian deaths as a result of US aerial bombing. How many has the Taliban killed?

So setting off bombs in Afghani public marketplaces is ...what... targetting US/UN soldiers????

Baron Max

So bombing weddings/schools/villages/funerals is ...what... targetting Taliban soldiers????

 

[ElectricFetus]

So if the people want homosexuality, they can campaign for a new law. And no, they wont be put in jail for the rest of their lives as the government, that consists of Muslims and Jews and others will not allow it.

I wonderr why the people don't want it? And Unlike you I don't live in a world of sunshine and flowers and know that a totalitarian government does not listen to its people.